Tonight will be the second game of a home-and-home 4-game series between the Cincinnati Reds (5-5) and the Cleveland Indians (5-6). It’s the final game that will be played at Great American Ballpark between the two teams before they both head to Cleveland for a match up on Wednesday and Thursday to decide who gets the Ohio Cup Trophy for 2020.

Starting Lineups

Cleveland Indians

Cincinnati Reds

Cesar Hernandez – 2B Shogo Akiyama – LF
Jose Ramirez – 3B Joey Votto – 1B
Francisco Lindor – SS Nick Castellanos – RF
Carlos Santana – 1B Mike Moustakas – 2B
Franmil Reyes – DH Eugenio Suarez – 3B
Bradley Zimmer – RF Jesse Winker – DH
Jordan Luplow – LF Nick Senzel – CF
Sandy Leon – C Freddy Galvis – SS
Oscar Mercado – CF Tucker Barnhart – C
Shane Bieber – SP Tyler Mahle – SP

Cleveland isn’t pulling any punches as six hitters in their lineup will begin the day from the left side of the plate against Tyler Mahle (see below for why that’s probably not a good sign). The Reds get Nick Senzel back in the lineup today after missing the game last night with a finger injury suffered on a double two days ago. Cincinnati, like Cleveland, also has six lefties in the lineup to begin their night against right-hander Shane Bieber.

Starting Pitchers

Pitcher IP ERA WHIP BB% K%
Tyler Mahle 4.0 4.50 1.75 5.6% 22.2%
Shane Bieber 14.0 0.00 0.57 2.0% 54.0%
Links: Tyler Mahle Stats | Shane Bieber Stats

Tyler Mahle

There were very different versions of Tyler Mahle in the 2019 season with the Reds. He was much stronger in the first half than in the second half, and he was also much better against right-handed hitters than left-handed hitters. He wasn’t expected to be in the rotation to begin the season, but with Anthony DeSclafani having to miss his first start of the season, Mahle stepped in and was solid, giving up two earned in 4.0 innings the first time through the rotation. With Wade Miley now on the injured list, Mahle remains in the Reds rotation and will get his second start of the season this evening.


Home 49.1 5.66 11 10.6% 25.2% .253 .341 .453
Away 80.1 4.82 14 3.3% 21.9% .273 .303 .460
1st Half 92.2 4.47 18 8.7% 25.4% .251 .307 .444
2nd Half 37.0 6.81 7 5.4% 18.0% .299 .341 .487

Home runs at Great American Ballpark were a real problem for Tyler Mahle as he gave up 11 of them in just 49.1 innings pitched at home in 2019. His walk rate was also significantly higher at home than it was on the road – perhaps due to feeling the need to be extra careful within the strikezone, leading to missing the edges a bit more than on the road.

In the second half of the season he didn’t pitch nearly as much. Following his start after the All-Star break he was placed on the injured list with a hamstring strain. He’s miss the next month before returning and being optioned to Triple-A for a little less than two weeks. He was recalled when the rosters expanded in September and made six starts in the month – with three of them being quite good, and the other three that were quite bad. When he did pitch in the second half, though, his strikeout rate dipped considerably.

vsRHH 298 70 10 0 10 4.4% 25.5% .252 .294 .396
vsLHH 258 66 11 1 15 8.1% 20.5% .282 .345 .530

This split could be the biggest issue for Tyler Mahle tonight. Left-handed hitters just crush him. And Cleveland’s can run out a lot of quality left-handed bats in their lineup.

Pitch Usage and Value

4-Seam 2-Seam Slider Splitter Curve Cutter
Velo (’19) 93.7 N/A N/A 87.5 80.8 90.4
2019 Usage 57% 0% 0% 14% 23% 7%
2020 Usage 57% 3% 29% 7% 4% 0%
Value/100 0.26 N/A N/A 1.64 0.02 -3.78
MLB Rank 55 N/A N/A 2 40 44
MLB Rank among 130 pitchers with 100 IP in 2019

You’ll notice that for Tyler Mahle I’ve included his pitch usage for last season as well as this season. There’s a reason for that. This season, at least in his first start, Mahle went to a slider that he didn’t throw in 2019. The curveball still showed up a few times in his first start, but by-and-large it was replaced with the slider which came in about 5 MPH harder (85.5 MPH in start #1).

What’s a little more interesting is how the pitch breakdown happened in his only start of 2020. Against right-handed hitters, Mahle went fastball 58% of the time and slider 42% of the time. He didn’t throw any other type of pitch to righties. Lefties, however, got 60% fastball, 7% curve, 22% slider, and 11% splitter. Keep an eye on the pitch usage tonight.

Shane Bieber

An All-Star as a 24-year-old last season, Shane Bieber was good. He went 15-8 with a 3.28 ERA (147 ERA+( while throwing 214.1 innings with 40 walks and 259 strikeouts. He finished 4th in the Cy Young voting in the league, while leading the league in complete games, shutouts, and walk rate. Through two starts this season he’s made last season look terrible. The right-handed starter has thrown 14.0 innings while allowing no runs, walking one batter, and he’s struck out 27 of the 50 batters that he’s faced.


Home 111.1 3.64 16 5.6% 29.1% .257 .305 .428
Away 103.0 2.88 15 3.5% 31.4% .199 .231 .353
1st Half 112.1 3.45 17 5.1% 31.5% .214 .260 .393
2nd Half 102.0 3.09 14 4.1% 28.7% .246 .282 .392

The splits for Shane Bieber tell the story of a good pitcher. While he pitched better away from his home ballpark, he was good at home and great on the road. Like most pitchers in 2019, there were some home runs allowed no matter where he pitched. Unlike most other guys, he mitigated the runs on those by walking almost no one.

The story is similar when it comes to his first and second half splits. He was a little better in the second half in terms of ERA, but opponents hit for a better average, and had a better on-base percentage and OPS in the second half. Both splits were very strong, though. He’s good.

vsRHH 451 99 20 1 13 4.4% 29.3% .231 .271 .374
vsLHH 408 87 17 0 18 4.9% 31.1% .228 .271 .414

Right-handers, left-handers – it didn’t really matter last season for Shane Bieber as he didn’t show struggles against either of them. His walk rate and strikeout rate were elite against both, and they had an OPS of .644 and .685 against him. Lefties did have the edge in power, so if you are going to find an advantage – even if it’s a small one – it’s going to be here.

Pitch Usage and Value

4-Seam Change Slider Curve
Velo 93.4 87.9 85.2 82.9
Usage 46% 7% 27% 21%
Value/100 1.02 -0.37 1.29 0.44
MLB Rank 20 69 24 25
MLB Rank among 130 pitchers with 100 IP in 2019

The good news is that Shane Bieber has a below-average pitch with his change up. The bad news for Reds hitters is that he uses it far less than any other offering that he throws, and those other three offerings are all good ones. Both the slider and the fastball are well above-average in terms of their 2019 value, and the curveball wasn’t quite as good but still better than average.

Late addition to this section, which isn’t reflected in the table above – but I’m not editing it – Bieber is also now throwing a cutter this year. The pitch comes in around the 87-90 MPH range and he’s thrown it 12% of the time – almost entirely cutting that percentage away from his slider while the other rates have been pretty similar as they were in 2019.

When and Where

  • Game time: 6:10pm ET
  • Where: Cincinnati’s Great American Ballpark
  • Watch: Fox Sports Ohio, SportsTime Ohio, MLB Network (out of market only),
  • Listen: 700 WLW AM (Cincinnati area)
  • Forecast: Partly cloudy, 76°, 10% chance of rain.

NL Central Standings

Team Wins Losses GB
Cubs 8 2
Reds 5 5 3.0
Brewers 3 4 3.5
Cardinals 2 3 3.5
Pirates 2 8 6.0

News and Notes

The Miami Marlins are back online

There were no new positive tests today from the Miami Marlins and they will get back on the field tonight as they take on the Baltimore Orioles.

The St. Louis Cardinals could be back by Friday

Don’t mess with Nolan Ryan….

On this date in 1993 Robin Ventura learned a valuable and embarrassing lesson.


182 Responses

  1. Klugo

    The Reds have been very lucky with how their schedule has been set up thus far.


      Need to put together another string and stop giving away games. That is especially true with a shortened season.

  2. Kevin Patrick

    Well…I’m hoping for 27 cans of Indian corn and an Akiyama lead off homer.

  3. Eric the Red

    Nolan Ryan was still pitching in 1993??? I’m not sure if that makes me feel old or young or what, but I’d definitely have lost that bet.

  4. Bred

    How did Mahle get between Gary and Castillo? I just don’t remember.

    • Hotto4Votto

      The rain outs moved the rotation around to keep everyone on regular rest, I believe. The rain out vs the Cubs (Thursday) pushed Castillo back a day, but Gray pitched yesterday on normal 5 days rest. At least that’s how I think it happened.

  5. Doug Gray

    Just a heads up – the software updated for the site’s comments. We’ve been having some comments, for no apparent reason, be marked as needing moderation for about two weeks now. Hopefully the update fixed that, but if you see it happen to you – have patience and I’ll see it soon enough and approve it as long as it should be approved.

    • Mark Moore

      Thanks, Doug. I know it’s been frustrating for you.

  6. Preach

    Got the Indian feed tonight. It’s a Thom-free evening.

    • Mark Moore

      I’ve got WLW audio on top of again. I like it Thom-free personally.

  7. Mark Moore

    Looks like a beautiful night at GABP. Made better by that bomb Nick just unleased.

    I’m hoping we get more than 4 innings our of Mahle, but he burned quite a few pitches in the 1st. We shall see …

  8. ClevelandRedsFan

    Please don’t leave, Nick.

    • Melvin

      I think his nickname, which I’ve heard before, should be Blasto.

  9. Old-school

    Strop and Garrett havent pitched in a week. Mahle just needs to get to the 5th.

    Castellanos is putting this offense on his back. Too bad no fans at GABP to cheer that guy.

  10. Roger Garrett

    Nick is the man but nobody on base again.Reds need to come out and score some runs tonight.Work the count and lets go.Bieber only threw 13 pitches for goodness sake.Can’t expect to win games when you only get 5 on base like last night.

    • Doug Gray

      Bieber doesn’t walk anyone. He throws a billion strikes. Tough to work a count on him.

    • VaRedsFan

      By working the count, do you mean taking strike 3’s right down the middle?

  11. Jeffery Stroupe

    Sheesh…bragging on Barnhart like second coming of Bill Plummer..Ugh….which is about the truth though.

  12. Old-school some good at bats. Move him up..

  13. Mark Moore

    A couple of hitting Nicks … that’s what we’ve got. Thinking it’s time to put one of them in the lead-off spot.

  14. JB

    Watching Suarez and Winker is brutal. Let’s keep hitting them 5th and 6th.

    • Roger Garrett

      Why are we watching them at all.I am a bigggggggggg fan of both of them but this is game 11 and they have done nothing.Surely a day off isn’t going to hurt them.Both come in hitting .083 and I am sure they aren’t pleased but how far do you go when guys are performing ?

    • Mark Moore

      It’s our own version of “Lost in Space”

  15. Old-school

    Typical mahle game. Lots of baserunners…lots of K’s and lots of pitches.
    Nice job with 3 shut out innings but at 63 pitches…time to get some guys ready for the 5 th inning.

    • Roger Garrett

      Exactly Old school.Its just who he’s been in the big leagues.Always been a 5 inning pitcher at best and most of the time its because of pitch count.I am sure he knows it but if he wants to become a starter he has to fix it.

  16. VaRedsFan

    Lots of pitches….but still keeping the runs allowed at zero.

  17. Mark Moore

    Mahle is adequate so far. That’s what you end up wanting out of #5 … but we still need to pile on some runs. Gonna take more than a pair of Nicks.

  18. Jim t

    If we have the lead after 5 while facing Bieber I will be very happy. Bieber is very good.

    A huge out to get Santana there

  19. Mark Moore

    So which 2 get cut when we reduce to 28? Just saw that’s as low as it will go for the balance of the season.

    • Mark Moore

      And there is the 3-man taxi squad to consider, one of which will be Tyler Stephenson.

      • Mark Moore

        Check that … it’s now a 5-man taxi squad.

    • Old-school

      Ongoing discussions to stay at 30 all year.

      • Mark Moore

        28 man cut happens for Thursday, so they would either increase or do a double-reversal tomorrow.

    • JB

      Should be Davidson and Colon but Bell seems to like them. Ervin and Vanmeter arent tearing it up either so it could be them. Winker has been horrible. I liked Mark Payton and was ticked that the Reds sent him back. I think he would have been a good DH. Anyway that’s my 5 candidates.

      • Doug Gray

        Ervin’s out of options – it won’t be him.

  20. Mark Moore

    Much better inning. Still thinking 5 out of Mahle, but if we get 6 that’s a bonus in my eyes.

  21. Preach

    I’ve said it before, but the sound of the ball coming off the bat is really strange with no one in the stands. I get excited about simple fly outs now. I feel like Thom.

  22. Jim t

    Nice quick in Inning for Tyler. He seems to be throwing the ball better as he gets deeper in the game. Need to score a couple runs for him.

    • Preach

      They did lay a couple hard outs in him that inning. I’m getting a little skiddish. But I’m even more scared of the bullpen.

  23. ClevelandRedsFan

    This is the first game all year I wasn’t going to be mad if the Reds lost.

    This is the best pitcher the Reds have and might face all year. Except, of course, for already facing Cy Young half a dozen times.

    But let’s by greedy, why not?

  24. Mark Moore

    That definitely helps. 109 mph exit speed.

  25. Jim t

    Owner has a nasty curve ball. Guys have swung and missed ballls that looked like strikes but ended up bouncing in the dirt.

  26. Old-school

    Some better at bats now driving up Bieber pitch count.

  27. VaRedsFan

    Oppo homers are a good sign for a hitter.
    It kicked off Castellanos’ tear.

  28. Preach

    He’s giving up some shots. Fortunately they’re staying in the park

  29. Mark Moore

    OK, Nick. That makes up for your little baserunning goof … at least a little.

    • Mark Moore

      By that I mean obviously calling off the other Nick.

  30. Mark Moore

    Ladies and Gents … the Nick Senzel CF show!!

    I’d be happy with him there for the next several years. He’ll never have BillyHam speed, but few do. He’s improving, maturing, and I’m liking his patience in the batter’s box.

    • Doug Gray

      According to the Statcast data from last year, he’s as fast as Hamilton is (in 2019).

      • Mark Moore

        Interesting … eye test just has Billy so freaky fast I suppose. Plus his rout selections were excellent the vast majority of the time. Good to know, especially given he would play about 50% of his games at GABP and that’s not a spacious OF by any stretch.

  31. Preach

    Did that hit Shogo before or after he left the box?

    • Mark Moore

      Booth saying he fouled it off his foot. Shogo certainly thought he did. Ump wasn’t buying it. Not sure if it’s even reviewable.

  32. Mark Moore

    Reds’ hitter impatience must be contagious. That’s the only reason I can think of for Shogo hacking that way.

  33. Preach

    Farmer in for Moose. Anyone get an update?

  34. Melvin

    I posted a version of this late last night on yesterday’s thread.

    Well gentlemen. I ask you to think about this. Think about our powerful hitters, Votto, Casty, Moose, Suarez, even Senzel. Think about them and then think about adding Aquino to that mix. That’s one powerful intimidating lineup. Even if AA does no better than what we’ve been getting, which is highly doubtful, whether it’s against RH or LH pitching, he still adds value. The pitchers have to have a little more stress if nothing else knowing he’s in there. I dare say opposing pitchers right now are looking forward to the DH spot in our lineup. That shouldn’t and doesn’t have to be. The DH spot for us is pretty much a disaster. It HAS to improve. IMO AA is the best all around option. Time to quit messing around. IMO Winker and Ervin are great PH options in this short season at least for now.

    • Mark Moore

      Oh, I’m definitely down with giving AA his shot at DH. Only real downside is that he’s not available to play OF if he does and his D and arm are pretty good.

      • Melvin

        Yeah I know but right or wrong DB is not going to take Senzel, Aki, or Blasto out…at least I hope he doesn’t take Aki out.

  35. renbutler

    Happy for Mahle and the Reds, but this Indians team is garbage at the plate. Holy cow…

    • Tom Mitsoff

      Really hard to believe that Yasiel Puig wouldn’t be better than any of those outfield bats they are running out there.

      • Mark Moore

        True that … hard to believe he’s still unemployed.

    • jazzmanbbfan

      My brother-in-law is an Indians fanand right now he is beyond frustrated with their hitters.

  36. Preach

    Spokane always keeps it interesting

  37. Preach

    Strop is everywhere but in the strike zone

  38. Mark Moore

    Pedro’s looking more than a little stale out there.

  39. Preach

    And when he is in the zone he’s throwing 82. It’s a good thing this Indians lineup has been terrible

  40. Preach

    I knew that was trouble off the bat

    • JB

      So didnt Thom. You said earlier you felt like him.

  41. MLT

    Wow. let’s hope this inning doesn’t get WAY out of hand with the bullpen.

  42. Mark Moore

    Wasted a perfectly good start by Mahle … and I’m with the radio booth. Where is AG?

  43. Gonzo Reds

    Brutal! D shame a great start by Mahle WASTED!

  44. VaRedsFan

    Yesterday’s bullpen the exception, not the rule.

  45. Preach

    Bad lineup and no one can throw a strike.

  46. Preach

    8 batters and the ball hasn’t left the infield

  47. JB

    The 3 batter minimum sure has changed things.

  48. Melvin

    That’s what happens when you take a pitcher who is doing well out. If Mahle could have stayed he should have. Never know what the next pitcher is going to give you for sure.

  49. Roger Garrett

    Just awful.Major leaguers that can’t throw a strike.

    • JB

      True but it blows my mind that Bell hasnt used 2 of his best bullpen pitchers in over a week.

  50. MLT

    That’s tough that the bullpen blows the lead to an ice cold team with the bats… ouch.

    • Mark Moore

      Yep … way too wide of a turn.

  51. Roger Garrett

    No excuse for the pen at all but when the only way you can score is via the home run then every thing else is so big.We only had 5 base runners last night and only 5 so far tonight.Thats 10 over 14 innings and we won a game and if they throw the ball around we may squeak this one out.

  52. Mark Moore

    So now you PR for Wink and at least give yourself a chance, right?

  53. Preach

    A pinch runner would already be in second

  54. Mark Moore

    What the heck was that????

    If we’ve got 2 down with a runner on 2nd I’m way more comfortable with it being Senzel. But what if Janko had been PR’s for Wink?

  55. JB

    If Bell isnt going to use Garrett then the Reds need to trade him and somebody else for a Hitter that can DH everyday.

    • Mark Moore

      Hope he can rehab it with little time missed. One benefit of 30 man now and 28 man. No need to put him on the 10-day unless they think it will go that long.

  56. Mark Moore

    Speak of the devil and he’s warming up …

  57. Preach

    Only had one extra base hit before that.

  58. Mark Moore

    Well … a split at home barring a minor miracle.

  59. VaRedsFan

    AG is not the be all end all either guys.
    Certainly couldn’t have done worse though. Hindsight

  60. FreeHouse

    Gotta love this bullpen smh. Bell put in Amir an inning too late.

  61. JB

    Well I don’t tend to bad mouth Bell but I dont like how he has used the DH and I dont like how he has used the bullpen. To not use Strop or Garrett in what 8 days? Is ludicrous. One job of the manager is to keep your aces in the pen sharp with work. Expecting them to come in and not be rusty is crazy. Just my 2 cents.

    • VaRedsFan

      Starters have pitched so good, they haven’t needed relievers. It’s a good strategy for this team.

  62. Jon

    Does Winker have any trade value? What kind of bullpen piece could he bring back in a trade?

    • VaRedsFan

      The first number in his batting avg is a zero. You be the judge.

    • Mark Moore

      Not really. He’s a DH at best given his D … and AL teams know what they look for in a DH. It isn’t our Jesse at this point.

    • Melvin

      I wish he had trade value. If he does…we should use it. His only value is hitting and that’s going down hill fast.

  63. MLT

    I don’t really understand a lot of Bell’s moves, including his use of the bullpen…

  64. Gonzo Reds

    Reds SP 60IP / 20R. Bullpen 31IP / 29R. You do the math.,,

    • Chris

      And yet, Bell is all too willing to play the “new” book of baseball and pull his starters no matter what, at about 97 pitches, except for Bauer, who has made it clear that’s not acceptable.

    • Chris

      1 hit shutout, and you pull your pitcher at under 100 pitches. LOL. The whole Indians dugout must have been so excited with that move.

  65. Indy Red Man

    The hitting and the bullpen. Not a mystery at this point, but I’m not sure how you fix it? Move Senzel up maybe? Our leadoff guy never seems to get on in any inning?

  66. Mark Moore

    Need a little 2-out bingo here … please?

  67. Indy Red Man

    JVM Zero
    Ervin Zero I think?
    Suarez .105
    Winker .115
    Shogo .200
    Galvis .219

    U-G-L-Y you ain’t got no alibi

    • Roger Garrett

      Same team Indy as in 2019 except Shogo.

  68. Roger Garrett

    I don’t either Indy but if Votto was hitting under .100 then everybody on here would be calling for his head yet Eugenio and Wink get a pass.I love em both but I said early in the season what happens if guys struggle?Both of these guys have stunk up the place and Bell keeps throwing them out there so where is anybody being held accountable?How many games are we willing to just throw away starting guys hitting under .100 who appear clueless at the plate.Yeah the pen is a mess but every pitch they throw is a high leverage pitch.No room to make a mistake at all for them or the starters.

    • VaRedsFan

      Suarez gets more string than Winker…IMO

  69. Mark Moore

    Time to tear up a closer … heaven knows it happens to us way too often.

  70. JB

    Reds need to find some offense. Senzel needs to lead off. Start from there and fill in the order.

  71. Hanawi

    Would be nice to have the power of Aquino to go to if someone gets on base.

  72. Mark Moore

    And our fleeting hopes rest on the broad shoulders of Matt Davidson batting for Winker. What a trade off.

    • JB

      And he strikes out with the bat on his shoulder. SURPRISE!

    • chris

      Is there anyone in this thread that wouldn’t rather see Aquino than Matt “flippin’ Davidson? GEEZ!!!

  73. Preach

    Pinch hitting for Winker: yeahhh!!

    Matt Davidson:…………..

  74. Mark Moore

    Good night, friends. Another squandered game to stew over.

  75. Jack

    All the expanded roster means is that the Reds have more bad pitchers and hitters.

  76. Hanawi

    This team has zero depth. Hence Davidson and Colon being primary DHs so far. Lots of AAAA players (Winker, Ervin, Farmer, etc.).

  77. Melvin

    With all the potential we have and after losing six years in a row it’s hard not to have the air taken out of us with some of the decision making that’s going on.

    • FreeHouse

      Like I said gimme Dusty over Bell. Although Dusty chokes in the playoffs he at least gets there.

      • Melvin

        Price had nothing to work with at least when it comes to pitching. Give him this team and he would do really well.

  78. Daytonnati

    Not defending Bell, but Dusty had Chapman which made late-inning decisions a little easier.

  79. Chris

    I’ll say it until the cows come home. You do a team a huge favor when you take the starter out and he’s only given up ONE hit. That’s like giving the whole team a mulligan. Mahle literally got so much better as the game progressed, making easy work of the middle of the order in the 6th, and still under 100 pitches. I just don’t know when managers like Bell decided that pitchers can’t even throw 100 pitches any more. One can argue this all day long, but that facts aren’t lying. Outside of yesterday, this has backfired on the Reds every game this season. Thank goodness Bauer’s game was only 7 innings long and he got to finish it.

    • Doug Gray

      Tyler Mahle postgame: “98 pitches is the most I’ve thrown in a long time. No doubt it was the right call.”

      • Chris

        That means absolutely nothing. Guess what? 108 pitches would have also been the most he had thrown in a long time. Also, the results show without debate that it was the wrong call, because the game was effectively lost as soon as Mahle was pulled from the game. Again, these guys aren’t computers. Nobody was more happy to see Mahle out of the game than were the Indians.

    • Grand Salami

      Chris if you want facts the Mahle was on his second start and Bieber his third. The difference between them was 8 pitches. Bieber was just far more efficient getting to almost 30 batters vs Mahle’s 22.

      You seem to be advocating for 110+
      Pitches a game or limits based on the wheels visibly falling off. That’s not managing, that’s just reacting.

      • Chris

        Actually that is managing. Maybe study some baseball history, and see what the great managers did. By the way, 110+ pitches is just fine. NOTHING, no scientific proof whatsoever says differently. It’s just a sheep mentality that made up a 100 pitch count parameter. If I’m wrong, please feel free to show me the proof. And once again, how’s the healthy starters working out for this team? If you don’t use them to their full potential, you start out 5 and 6.

      • Doug Gray

        *points to the amount of pitching injuries all around baseball this year as evidence*

      • Doug Gray

        But I’ll agree – 100 is a round number and it specifically has nothing to validate it as “the mark”, but it’s the dangerzone where you need to start looking at guys.

        Like it or not, this isn’t 2000, or even 1980 anymore. Everyone is throwing max effort. There are no longer .580 OPS shortstops and catchers in every lineup where you can go 80% because those guys can’t actually hurt you. There are no “off” batters in a lineup like there used to be on a daily basis. Throwing today is far more stressful on your arm than it used to be. You don’t have to like it for it to be incredibly true.

  80. Foster the people

    Any chance we see De Leon, or others given a shot in the bullpen in the shortened season ?

    • Doug Gray

      I think at some point you’re going to start seeing guys brought in if things don’t change.

      • Chris

        What should change is letting the best rotation in baseball pitch more than 90 some odd pitches. Again NO proof whatsoever that suggests that a specific number of pitches like 90 or even 100 is a factor toward injury or fatigue. Just isn’t.

      • Melvin

        11 games – If Cubs win (they’re ahead) 4 games back – 49 to go – whatever happens better happen fast.

      • Grand Salami

        Chris is a broken record.

        Emphasizing broken. He wants to Aaron Harang the whole starting rotation.

      • Chris

        @Grand Salami, it appears you have a reading and comprehension issue. I have not ONCE suggested that one of the starters pitch on 2 days rest. In fact, outside of Bauer, who has requested over and over to pitch on 3 days rest, I have not suggested ANYONE should pitch on 3 days rest. If you disagree with me, that’s fine, but don’t make stuff up. And by the way, the object is to win, not baby your over-paid athletes so as to maybe win in the future. Soon you’ll probably want to give them participation trophies too, right?

      • Doug Gray

        Oh God, stop it with that overpaid athletes and participation trophy garbage.

  81. Gary Brown

    Tuned in to the Reds game tonight and saw why I gave up on this team years ago. Nobody, I mean nobody pulls their pitcher who is throwing a one hit ballgame after 6 innings. But, the Reds Manager David Bell does, and he loses the game. Where did this insane model take hold that you must pull your starter after 6 or 7, and then rely on your middle reliever and closer to finish the game. The ghosts of Sandy Koufax and Warren Spahn are rolling over in their graves.

    Gary, keep the personal insults out of the comments.

    • Doug Gray

      Sandy Koufax got buried alive?!


    • Chris

      Couldn’t agree more Gary. Sadly though, Bell isn’t the only one. He’s nothing more than a SHEEP who is following the lead of many others in this FAILED line of thinking. I guess the pitchers of 2 years ago were just stronger, or at least that’s what we are led to believe.

  82. Gary Brown

    Well, I’m still waiting for you to post my comment. Let me guess. My comment was too strident for you to post. Grow a pair and post it.

    • Doug Gray

      I’m going to approve this one just to let you know that I’m banning you because you couldn’t wait for your comment to be moderated while we covered the game recap, that was full of insulting messages, and then you posted this. Take care, Gary.

      • Grand Salami

        It’s a tough crowd this year Doug. The head hunters for Bell and the cats thinking starters can throw 110+ pitches are aligned against every loss. Nice work.

  83. Chris

    David Bell needs to make better decisions, period. Putting in Garrett in an inning after all the damage solidifies that until tonight when he will undoubtedly corroborate it yet again. 2-0 he pulls Mahle, fine given his 98 pitches. Instead of going to by far his best relief pitcher AND letting the Indians’ two best hitters bat their traditionally weaker right side, he gives to Strop. An error and 2 walks later and we then still don’t use Garrett, we go to Sims. So 2-0 lead we don’t, 2-1 lead and bases juiced we don’t, we wait till 2-4. Smart.

    Comment edited.

    • Doug Gray

      Chris, you can complain and vent – but we don’t allow personal insults here in the comments section.

      • Chris

        So I’m assuming you agree? With regards to no utilization of Garrett?

      • Doug Gray

        The lack of use of Garrett for nearly an entire week suggests to me that he wasn’t quite healthy for some reason or another. Same for Strop. Just tough to convince me that neither was purposefully used for that long unless something was up.

    • Chris

      Just for the record. This comment above by “chris” is not me. It’s a different Chris. I may disagree with you on a number of topics, but I don’t do the personal insult thing. That’s where we completely agree, Doug.

  84. ClevelandRedsFan

    Tejay Antone pitching tonight. I wonder if Bell reads Doug’s blog.