A little more than two weeks ago we wrote up some thoughts on the free agent starting pitchers that could be of interest for the Cincinnati Reds. Among that group of pitchers that we covered was now former New York Mets right-handed starter Zack Wheeler. Here’s what we wrote about Wheeler on November 5th:

For what feels like the last decade, the Cincinnati Reds have continuously been linked to Zack Wheeler. After bursting int he Majors in 2013 and 2014 with a 3.50 ERA over 49 starts, he missed all of the 2015 and 2016 season. His first season back in 2017 was struggle. But he’s been above-average in the last two years, throwing 377.2 innings with a 3.65 ERA for the Mets. Wheeler misses plenty of bats and he doesn’t walk guys anymore, either. This could be an interesting one to really keep an eye on given how frequently the Reds have been rumored to be interested in acquiring him.

NAILED IT. Ken Rosenthal is reporting this afternoon that the Cincinnati Reds are indeed interesting in Zack Wheeler. His article about this is over at The Athletic if you would like to check it out.

It seemed like catcher Yasmani Grandal was the top target for the Reds this offseason. And yesterday he was off the board, signing a 4-year and $73M deal with the Chicago White Sox. That’s pretty close to what his contract prediction was, so it’s fair to say that the Cincinnati front office was willing to spend somewhere near that amount of money to bring him in. Now that he’s not available, that money probably won’t just sit around if the team can help it.

The goal for 2020 isn’t marginal improvement. The goal is to compete and make the playoffs. Or at least that’s what President of Baseball Operations Dick Williams has stated publicly. The team appears to be better on paper than their 2019 record suggests. And they currently project, as is, to be an 82-85 win team. That’s not good enough to make the playoffs in most seasons. But for a team that seemingly has a decent chunk of money to spend, that’s a good baseline of wins to start with.

The biggest issue with the 2019 Reds was that their offense simply wasn’t good. It was inconsistent, and overall, just a below-average offense. The obvious area for an upgrade is shortstop, where right now it seems that Freddy Galvis will be the option if there isn’t a move made. Catcher was another area that the team was targeting and Grandal being one of the best in the game, would have provided a big upgrade there. But the next catcher on the list is probably Robinson Chirinos, who would be an upgrade – but not nearly as big of one as Grandal would have been. In terms of WAR, Chirinos would only be a 1.5-2 win upgrade, versus about a 3-4 win upgrade for Grandal.

But baseball is a zero sum game. You just need to score more runs than your opponent. It doesn’t matter if that comes because you score a bunch of runs, or if you simply don’t allow the opponent to score many runs. Zack Wheeler would be a significant upgrade to the pitching staff. Essentially he’d replace Tyler Mahle in the rotation as things stand now. For 2020, Marcels projections would have that as a 2-3 win upgrade for the Reds.

That alone isn’t likely going to be enough to get the Reds where they want to be. But it would be a step in the right direction. The move, however, wouldn’t be cheap. MLB Trade Rumors predicts that Zack Wheeler will land a 5-year deal worth $100M. Depending on exactly where you believe the Reds payroll will fall, that would still leave them somewhere in the $15-25M range of money to spend – assuming of course, $20M is the right number for Wheeler.

Upgrading the rotation, possibly giving Cincinnati one of if not the best rotations in all of baseball? Still having enough money to add quality players? It’s not the worst plan in the world, even if it wasn’t necessarily Plan A for the franchise when free agency began.

Photo of Zack Wheeler by slgckgc on flickr and was altered to fit the site. The license can be found here.

76 Responses

    • Doug Gray

      Thank you for taking the time to read the article.

      • burtgummer

        I didn’t mean that as a shot to you please don’t think that.He’s be a huge upgrade but I’m having trouble believing that the Reds really want to spend a lot of money to improve the team

  1. Jeff

    Yep blah blah…same old rumors and no action….

    • Eric

      You do realize that Doug here is writing about the Reds, not for the Reds…right?

      • jeff

        And…..Im speaking my mind. Dont take it personal. 😐

        Truth hurts, I’ll believe it when I see it.

  2. Colt Holt

    Love it. I have been hoping for wheeler ever since Kyle Boddy was hired. After what the reds did with sonny last year, I can’t wait to see what can be done to take wheeler to the next level! If you have great pitching coaches, no reason you should have someone like Tyler Mahle even every fifth day. This could be one heck of a year for the red legs pitching staff

  3. BK

    This could be a good way to go: bolster the pitching and maybe one solid FA offensive signing. Personally, I prefer a LHP. But there’s more available value in pitching this year. Trades are also an option.

  4. Chris

    Yeah, this team did nothing last season, right. Good grief. And by the way, outside of the White Sox, who this season has done much of anything?

    • burtgummer

      2 terrible trades and 1 good one and their huge mlb free agency signing Zach Duke yep impressive stuff

      • ToBeDetermined

        All my goodness. I forgot all about Zach Duke.

    • CI3J

      It is November 22nd. Thanksgiving hasn’t even happened yet.


      • Goat

        Would be a good move, but even a better move would be to sign Hamels to a two year deal at a low price and signing Desclafani to a long term deal at a fraction of the price compared to Wheeler and using the excess money towards a much need hitter.
        They’re thinking in the right direction anyway.

  5. Datdudejs

    Please god just trade for Mookie

    • Colorado Red

      Please God no.
      The cost is prospects is way way to high.
      Put us back in the rebuild after 1 year.

      • Datdudejs

        What’s prospects do we have that are going to keep us from rebuilding in a year?

      • Colorado Red

        Hunter, Lodolo, Tony, Tyler to name a few.
        You get ride of 2 or 3 of these guys, and we have another 5+ years on 90+ losses.

      • Datdudejs

        I hate to be the one to tell you this buddy, but even if all 4 of those guys reach their ceiling thats still not a good enough team to compete, and they are all at different ages and distances from the majors. You’ll be lucky to get one season of good production from all of them at the same time. Not to mention Votto will still be expensive and older and giving you less and less production. This team is set up right now to go for it right now. Not trading prospects is a bigger risk in my mind then trading them if they aren’t going to contribute next year

    • Datdudejs

      I would be very happy with either

      • Colorado Red

        I would prefer Lindor, because of 2 years control vs 1

  6. Doc

    Is Cody Reed no longer considered a potential lefty starter option? Are there any issues with his rehab and recovery?

  7. CI3J

    This would be a good move, if the Reds could swing it. $20 million is a lot for a pitcher, especially one with an injury history, but he’s in his prime and he’s been good for a few seasons now, so it seems like a move with more potential upside than downside.

    It’s looking more and more likely that to really improve the offense, the Reds are going to have to trade for the missing piece(s). If they are serious about competing, that is.

  8. JB

    Thanks for the article Doug. It’s been slow so far. I’m not getting excited into they start signing people. I would love Wheeler but man they need hitting fielders more. Keep the fingers crossed.

  9. Jefferson Green

    Another reminder of how expensive it is to improve significantly through free agency. The best moves in terms of value and ROI are for the smaller deals and lower level guys, but they can’t be relied upon to improve the Reds enough to get into the playoff hunt. This FO has its work cut out for it.

  10. AirborneJayJay

    #GetTheHitting. #GetTheHitting.
    Or do the Reds have to #GetThePitching-Volume 2 to #TradeForTheHitting?
    Adding Wheeler sure makes DeSclafani, Mahle, Romero, and Sims a bit expendable for some hitting I would guess.

  11. Steve D

    I’m all for signing Wheeler if they don’t stop there. The reds absolutely need a reliever, middle infielder and OF. If wheeler is just icing on the cake then I’m all for it but if the Reds upgrade payroll by $20 million by signing Wheeler and then say we’re done, that is not going to get us in the playoffs.

    • Doug Gray

      If the Reds only spend $20M in free agency, the payroll would drop from where it was last year. So, given the talk that they are upping payroll, their plan is to clearly spend significantly more in player acquisition between now and April than $20M.

  12. Jefferson Green

    Wheeler Analysis:
    Doug and others, let me know if I am thinking about this correctly —

    Over the last two seasons, Wheeler’s xFIP is 3.94 (37th best in all of baseball among pitchers who pitched at least 250 innings over the two years). But he pitches in a pitcher’s park; you would have to add 12% to his runs given up at home to standardize them with the rest of baseball, so roughly half his innings would need this adder, making it a 6% add overall. His xFIP (and projected ERA) would become 4.18. This figure moves him back on the list to 45th; still a good pitcher, but nowhere near elite – basically at the high end of the list of 3rd starters.

    Comparison with Anthony Desclafani:
    Wheeler and Disco have virtually identical strikeout (8.7/8.8 per 9), walk (2.5/2.5), and groundball (42/43%) rate stats. Uncanny. Only the HR rates are very different – and the ballparks may account for this.
    Disco has an xFIP of 4.12 over the last two years. GABP gives up runs at 4% above average, so subtracting 2% from his xFIP would standardize it. His park-adjusted ERA projection would become 4.04. Wheeler has worked more innings to create more value there, but if both stay healthy, that gap may not be too big going forward. They are both the same age.

    Signing Wheeler looks a lot like signing another Desclafani. Would we give anything close to $100 million over 5 years for Desclafani?

    • Doug Gray

      xFIP is garbage, so let’s start there with yes, you’re thinking about this incorrectly.

      The home run rate in xFIP just assumes everyone has a league average HR/FB rate. But that’s just not realistic. DeSclafani certainly plays in a HR friendly home ballpark. Yet his HR/FB rate was identical for Home and Road in 2019 – and it sucked a lot in both places. In 2018 it was more of the same – and sucked a lot in both places. Fact is – he gives up home runs at a very high rate no matter where he pitches. But xFIP adjusts his entire production to say that he doesn’t.

      Wheeler plays in a more friendly ballpark for pitchers when it comes to HR/FB rate. But he didn’t see any different in his home/road HR/FB rates in 2019. In 2018 there was a 1.7% difference (higher) on the road. It was still HALF of what DeSclafani gave up on the road.

      So xFIP is terrible here. DeSclafani gives up huge numbers of homers at home and on the road. It’s not the ballpark. Likewise, Wheeler doesn’t give up homers at home or on the road. It’s also not the ballpark. But xFIP is saying both give up home runs on an equal footing because it just says everyone *should* have the same HR/FB rate. Nothing about these two guys tells us they should have the same HR/FB rate – and looking at their road stats, Wheeler in the last two seasons is at about HALF of the rate of DeSclafani.

      They aren’t really comparable.

      • Jefferson Green

        Thanks, Doug. I appreciate the insight. I knew that my gut was saying that Wheeler was a better pitcher, but I was not seeing it in the numbers (except HR).

      • Jefferson Green

        Doug, is there an ERA or performance predictor stat that you do like (SIERA, others)?

      • Doug Gray

        I think that ERA is a good signifier of performance (because that’s what actually happened – using xFIP, or even FIP to pretend that runs either didn’t score, or did, is crazy – those runs actually happened, whether or not the pitcher had a high or low BABIP, or whether or not they had a high or low HR/FB rate – those runs actually scored in actual baseball games and people that pretend otherwise…. well…). I don’t agree that it’s a strong signifier of future performance, necessarily, though.

        When trying to look at future performance for pitchers, I like to look at the things that many of the Defensive independent pitching stats look at – walks, strikeouts, home runs. But I think you need to use those things as a guide, and then look deeper. I think that for the most part, we’re all in agreement that walks and strikeouts should be focused on a lot. For me, where things get dicey is how much emphasis people want to place on home runs, and batted ball breakdowns. Ground ball pitchers tend to have higher BABIP’s and thus give up more hits, but they also tend to have lower SLG against rates because well, you don’t get extra-base hits on grounders too often. Defensive independent pitching stats don’t exactly account for that kind of thing. You need to be able to understand that, and then look deeper than just the FIP/xFIP/Whatever other ERA model and try to see what’s going on and if it passes the sniff test of logic.

        Same thing with the home run rates and how the model deals with them. And exactly what you are trying to ask, too. Clearly a guy pitching in GABP is likely to give up more home runs than a guy pitching in Petco circa 2012. We all understand that. FIP isn’t adjusting for that. xFIP is trying to. Fortunately, today, we’ve got more data than ever before to try and dive deeper into this stuff. We can sort of try to adjust whether a guys home runs would have been home runs in one park versus another because we know how far they went (estimated, at least). But that may or may not answer the question you’re trying to get answered. If the question is who pitched better instead of how will this guy pitch if he goes to this team next year, you could get very different answers.

        There’s just a lot going on with pitching stats that is simply glossed over and passed by. Defensive independent pitching stats have only been an idea for 20 years. When Voros McCracken first put the idea out there, he wasn’t necessarily saying pitchers had no control over what happened once a guy made contact, but that the variance was small – and he is and was right about that. But small in terms of baseball is actually still pretty large. We always have BABIP fall around the .300 mark for the league, but 20 points in either direction isn’t unheard of for plenty of guys. And that’s 40 whole points of BABIP before you get to the true outlier guys. And we actually do know today that guys can control BABIP a little bit. So simply tying everyone to .300 doesn’t just work for everyone. Dig deeper. Find out, or at least try to find out why the inputs may or may not make sense for a pitcher. In some cases they’ll line up exactly with what you expect – that guy’s pretty much league average in stuff like BABIP control, and home runs per fly ball, and batted ball profile – and those predictors work great. But that doesn’t work for just everyone.

      • Hotto4Votto

        One area ERA lacks in my opinion is inherited runs scored. Not all inherited runs are created equally. If a pitcher leaves a guy on first with two outs and the reliever lets up a home run on the next pitch then the previous pitcher is dinged because the reliever didn’t do his job. And the reliever’s ERA isn’t as reflective of his performance because he’s only charged for the one run while two scored.

        I’d also say that defense also factors into this and isn’t well accounted for in ERA. That’s one thing that FIP tries to adjust for. If David Bell plays Jesse Winker in CF and a ball is hit that otherwise has a high percentage of being an out with an average CF and it turns into a double, then a run because it gave an extra AB to a team, that run goes against the pitcher’s ERA, but he’s not entirely responsible for it.

        I actually haven’t seen anyone try to argue that the runs did not happen. That would be quite silly. I think the discussion is about who is ultimately responsible for the runs scoring. As we know, the pitcher has little control of what happens with the ball once it’s put in play. But ERA puts all the responsibility on the pitcher for the runs scored, even ones scored after that pitcher leaves the game.

      • Doug Gray

        ERA certainly has it’s own flaws – but it tells you what happened when a pitcher was on the mound. They were there when X number of earned runs scored per 9 innings that they pitched. It’s what happened.

        My issue is that people use these ERA predictors with far more certainty than they should. They talk about them, and use them as if they are nearly infallible, without much of an actual understanding of what we’ve learned about the inputs since 2003.

        Basically – look deeper on every last one of them. Use them all as a guide, then dig. Don’t just say “His (insert whatever formula you want to use here) was X.YZ” and pretend it’s the answer. Because no matter which one you picked, it’s probably not the absolute answer, and the real answer requires a lot more. But we don’t often get that.

      • Jefferson Green

        Thanks, Doug. That is quite a substantive answer – perhaps the start of a post of its own at some point (or did you already write this stuff and I missed it?). Trying to understand who is going to be good next year (or the next few years) is interesting, and feels like the key to many of these discussions of who to sign or trade for and how much to give or pay for each.

      • Jefferson Green

        And I should have added: I appreciate your work here (and over at Redsminorleagues.com). Thanks.

      • Hotto4Votto

        Definitely agree that every stat should be looked further into, and no single stat alone should be taken as the final word in any discussion. Disagree a bit with the notion that ERA tells you what happened when a pitcher is on the mound. As illustrated by inherited runs ERA often tells only a partial story of what happened when a pitcher was on the mound, and that it also includes what happened after the pitcher leaves the mound and is replaced (often by a pitcher not as skilled).

        But you’re overall point is valid, look deeper and use stats as a guide.

      • Old-school

        xFip is garbage? ERA identifies year in and year out the top 15 -20 starting pitchers or so. But after that… It gets murky . Relievers really murky. Some of the best content on this site came from contributors who believed in XFIP as a a good metric.

        Can’t we disagree without being disagreeable? Garbage is a really bad word.

      • Doug Gray

        Yes. xFIP is garbage, IF you are going to use it as more than a guide. Once you start touting it as some fact, rather than a guide, you’re using it very incorrectly.

  13. Tom Mitsoff

    The best guess from this perspective is that the Reds will budget enough money to land two relatively big names. If one of those is Wheeler, then another starting pitcher could be offered as trade bait to help shore up one of the everyday lineup positions.

    The way this free agent market is quickly developing, the Reds are likely going to have to “overpay” a bit to land one of the sought-after players. They opted not to overpay for Grandal. Now we will see just how serious the front office is about spending money to make needed improvements.

  14. Scott C

    My question would be where does Wheeler sit in the rotation? It seems you have a #1 and #2 starter or maybe two 2s in Castillo and Gray. Does Wheeler fit in as another #2 or is he a #3 moving Bauer to a #4 and Desclafani to #5. I agree that in and of itself makes a formidable rotation and I know the position in the rotation doesn’t really matter. And it does potentially open up Mahle to be traded for an upgrade elsewhere. If it makes the team better overall, then I’m for it.

    • Tom Mitsoff

      Wheeler would be #4 in a lights-out rotation. You could then trade DeSclafani (who has only one year of team control remaining) in a deal for a starting position player, and let Sims, DeLeon and Mahle compete for the fifth spot in the spring.

      • Colt Holt

        There is no way disco brings that much back in a trade. No reason to trade him. He goes into the season as your five, a guy who would have been one two years ago. Don’t apologize about having too much pitching. Just enjoy.

      • BK

        @Colt, DeSclafani for Pederson would be pretty comparable from a value perspective. Disco would project as the third best starting pitcher for the Dodgers (i.e., he’s better than their current 3-5) and Pederson could play CF for the Reds. Not a prediction, just an illustration about how Tom’s idea is very plausible.

  15. GhostRunner

    Add Wheeler and Gregorius and I’m a happy Reds fan.

  16. Mark

    If you sign wheeler I look to trade Bauer and Iglesias in a deal to the Dodgers to get Seager for SS. The leftover money of Bauer and Iglesias salaries could go toward the signing of Castellanos for LF and center either goes to Senzel if not moved to 2b or Irvin/Siri. I’m not against moving Winker for Marte to be our CF.

    • Reddawg12

      I would be on board with pretty much everything you suggested here.
      Can you imagine?

      Marte CF
      Votto 1B
      Suarez 3B
      Castellanos LF
      Seager SS
      Senzel 2B
      Aquino/Irvin RF
      Barnhart/Casali C

      Seems like a lineup that would score some runs.

    • Colorado Red

      I would rather trade for Story if we could.
      He is a better hitter, and really good on D (eye test).
      Gun shy with the Dodgers now.

      • Reddawg12

        Trevor Story’s home/away splits would worry me a bit.

      • Jefferson Green

        I like Story, but he is a below average hitter away from Coors field, while Seager is 18% above average away from Chavez Ravine. And while Seager is coming back from TJ surgery, he is also younger. It remains to be seen what his recovery will look like, but before his injury, Seager was the best SS in all of baseball, even better than Lindor. I imagine it will take a lot to get him in trade, and the Dodgers have proven to be too smart to make many mistakes in valuation and trading.

  17. Brady

    Obviously some of the pessimism around here is because we’ve heard this song and dance before. Wheeler would be a great addition and is young enough to hold some value at the end of a potential deal.

    But, there’s going to be some competition, and we’ve already swung and missed on a guy we were heavily rumored to be interested in. This front office rightfully won’t overpay for anyone even though virtually everyone is saying they’re going to spend – so if it turns into a bidding war we’re all likely to be disappointed again. I’m more pessimistic, but if we do add him it’s a great get and the pitching staff would be fantastic.

    Hopefully they can couple him with Gregorius and either another bat or a relief pitcher and call it a day.

    • Burtgummer

      And now The Phillies are hot after Gregorius which isn’t good news

  18. doofus

    Here are my objectives for offseason, again:

    Offseason moves;
    -Fortify the starting pitching.
    -Get an accomplished left-handed hitter.
    -Get a centerfielder.
    -Inject speed into the starting lineup.
    -Move Senzel to the grass.
    -Trade for a young catcher and SS that provide defense and offense. I am not sold on T Stephenson or J Garcia.
    -Ensure that the bench is solid.

    I still believe that a healthy Senzel and Winker may be the offensive improvement that this team needs in 2020.

    • CFD3000

      I’m not as interested in speed in the lineup as I am in OBP. Billy Hamilton was never a star because he couldn’t get on base. Winker and JVM aren’t very fast, but if they can get on base 36% of the time they can play for me any day. The Reds need more base runners in 2020.

      And Zack Wheeler would look just fine in a wishbone C.

      • doofus

        The Reds need both…hitters with good OBP skills and speed. When healthy Winker and Senzel are OBP type hitters.

        They do not need a Billy Hamilton type. Speed plays on defense and when running the bases, taking the extra base, etc. The Reds need to inject some speed into the lineup.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        It would be nice if they had some speed. But, speed would be considered a luxury right now. We need the OBP. We need the offense. Hamilton showed speed doesn’t help offense.

      • doofus

        Why is speed considered a “luxury?” When I speak of speed I mean players that are not plodding Clydesdales like Votto, Suarez and the catchers.

        Heaven forbid the Reds should seek athletic players with a little speed. Jeez, you guys will moan about anything and everything.

      • BK

        Winker is no burner either … lots of low OBP, 7/8-hole hitters on the Reds current roster, lots of station-to-station runners.

    • Bill J

      The key word for both Winker & Senzel is healthy. I think the last 3 years both have been on the IR during the season.

      • doofus

        With respect, captain obvious comes to mind.

  19. Robert

    IF they sign Wheeler or another pitcher of note, don’t be surprised if they trade Disco. He could be part of a package for a big name player, or even a one for one for say Joc Pederson, who also in his last year of arbitration. He can play CF. Sign DiDi, Joc in CF and Senzel at 2B and that is an improved (though not intimidating) offense and pitching staff. If Bauer is your 4, that is a heck of a rotation.

  20. Steve Schoenbaechler

    Even though offense is the first priority, you can’t foget other priorities.

    Given that, i can understand this interest. It wasn’t too long ago that we lost 4 of our starting 5 pitchers within 12 months, I believe. And, we could lose 2 after next season, another the season after that. Lord knows we don’t want to go that that rabbit hole again.

  21. Hotto4Votto

    I would be in favor of signing Wheeler. I think that they’d still need to add at least two offensive upgrades though. Didi and Castellanos are my preferences in the FA market at this point. But I’d like Moose for 2B as well.

    Still, and I said this at the start of the offseason, I’ll believe the Reds are going to be major players on the FA market when I see it. They can talk about increasing payroll, but I believe they’ll have to get creative through the trade market to accomplish adding payroll, and not just expect to woo free agents. But it’s like the lottery, you’ve got to play to win. So they might as well check in and make offers.

  22. jbonireland

    After reading all of the comments, let me throw a dash of realism into the conversation. So many on here blame the Reds for the Grandal signing/non signing. It takes two to make a deal. Many are ready to put the blame on Williams, how do we know that Grandal just didn’t want to come to Cincinnati. If you’re just going to write to complain all the time, it makes the board less of an instrument for real constructive comments. And the few of you who do it know who you are.
    As to the Zack Wheeler signing, if there is interest on both sides I believe it would be good to pursue it, but are you ready to overpay by 20-25% to get him as the Reds will never be able to outspend the Dodgers and other major market teams. I hope the Reds are able to bring in at least two free agents this year, only time will tell.

    • BK

      Great point. On his podcast, Chad Dotson reported that he had credibly insight that the Reds made a strong offer to Grandal. It just makes sense. Even at 4/73, he offered the single best opportunity to net +4 WAR. Moreover, his $18.25M salary could have been offset by $3.9M if a surplus Barnhart was traded.

      The White Sox offer an improving roster with a significant number of rising Cuban born players. Moreover, they can use him at DH—an advantage AL teams have over NL teams with older players. Grandal had more than one good option and mDe his choice. The Reds have multiple ways to improve the roster into a playoff competitive team. The time for judgment is after the offseason is complete. I have high confidence they will put a competitive team on the field in 2020.

  23. doofus

    All we can wish for is that the FO puts a competitive team on the field in 2020. I would think that everyone on this board realizes that this is no longer Jocketty’s front office. Given, that maybe we should R-E-L-A-X and let them do their stuff.

    I say this because I have been one of the most critical, curmudgeons for years. After last offseason I have seen that this new FO is truly focused upon improving the roster. That is all I can ask. After all, during the Jocketty years the Reds were virtually dormant during the offseason.

    Perhaps we should be aware that there are also other teams that value the talents of the players that the Reds seek to sign.

  24. TR

    White Sox also apparently making a big move for Wheeler.

    • Jeff Gangloff

      The White Sox are ruining my life.

      • TR

        They’re haunting Reds fans a hundred years after the 1919 World Series.

  25. Northern ky reds

    At the end of the day, reds will be taken advantage of on any trade. Just a rumor and he will never sign here. Team has a history of being unstable. They lied to us last year about payroll. No top FA want to play for the loser managers we keep hiring. Players want a dusty baker type. A Larussa type. This organization is a complete fail. Our A rated prospects are c rated elsewhere . We take on folks like our shortstop last year, let him blossom into a player, then let him walk away. Now he’ll go somewhere and become a greater player for cheap. Yet, we’re shopping for ozuna when we have ozuna type in Aquino . They want to move Tucker for a guy with the same offense but lesser defense. None of this makes sense. Now you’ll get wheeler for one year and do what you do which is a terrible trade that include some old player with a big name or a bunch F rated prospects. Maybe a bag of balls. Sell The Team! These old owners are clueless.

    • Doug Gray

      Reds definitely got taken advantage of in that Sonny Gray trade. And who could forget about that trade of Alfredo Simon? Trading Dan Straily still haunts my dreams.