With the trade deadline now less than three weeks away, the rumors of the hot stove are beginning to fly around the baseball world. This is when Twitter, more often than not a terrible place to spend your free time, becomes extremely interesting and is guaranteed to deliver some excitement. Many of the reports that will be tweeted out will have little to absolute zero chance of actualizing, but that does not stop us from getting way too excited about them.

A great example is a report from yesterday regarding Mets starting pitcher Noah Syndergaard who has long been subject to trade talk. Things have not gone great for the Mets since their appearance in the 2015 World Series, so naturally the idea of maximizing value from a controllable star is always a possibility. The reality is that with Mets front office stating there is “minimal urgency” to move him and they would need to be “wowed” by an offer, there is little chance that an trade proposal will meet the high standards. Thanks to a great quote tweeted out by Ted Berg yesterday, we have a very specific comparison to put these standards in context.

I personally have never listened to Norwegian death metal but my guess is that it is very intense. Given the awesomeness of this analogy I decided I needed to attempt to give it life in the form of a Reds trade offer. I know the Reds pitching has been superb this year and if anything the team could use more offense. But you can never have enough good pitching and Syndergaard has been very good over the course of his career. So with the help of baseballtradevalues.com (thanks to Sliotar for posting this in the comments this week), let’s see if we can start a Nordic mosh pit for the Mets front office.

Trade Proposal #1: Pop Punk

Plugging Syndergaard into the rotation for Desclafani immediately makes the Reds pitching staff better, which is scary to think about. Thor has not pitched up to his normal standards so far this year but he still carries much more value and talent than Disco. Desclafani has pitched well this year but seems destined for a 4/5 starter role at best. While it is certainly not the career many Reds fans had in mind after his breakout 2015 season, it is really a credit to Desclafani that he has rebuilt as much value as he has after missing nearly two years from injury.

Along with Desclafani, I have the Reds throwing in Jose Peraza, because somehow he has pretty sizable trade value according to this website. The Mets have gotten very poor offensive production from shortstop so maybe they would be willing to take a chance on Jose finding his 2018 form.

The biggest chip in this proposal is obviously Taylor Trammell. I wholeheartedly agree with Wes Jenkins that Trammell should not be traded, but for the purposes of this exercise I wanted to keep the team’s current production intact as much as possible. If the Reds really think they have a shot at the playoffs this season, then this would be one potential route they could go. Coming back to reality though, I think the Mets would consider this more like Yellowcard than Gehanna, Zyklon or Thou Shalt Suffer. I’m actually not sure how this trade got approved in the first place.

Trade Proposal #2: Crazy Train

For the Mets to even consider trading Syndergaard, they will need a better reason than just a top prospect and some throw-ins. I suspect they will want at least one established player to go along with some good prospects. Taking Trammell, Greene and India off the table might be a deal breaker, but this would be the next best thing to see coming out of the Reds farm system. Santillan, Stephenson and Siri came in at 5, 6 and 7 according to FanGraphs over the past winter. Oh, and Eugenio Suarez isn’t half-bad either.

With Suarez gone, this would definitely hurt the immediate future and would decimate the current lackluster offense even more. The remaining position players would basically need to have career second-halves for the Reds to stay in the playoff hunt. But with the addition of Gimenez coming over from New York the Reds would give themselves a shot at a better long term shortstop than what they currently have in the organization. It would also open the door for Jonathan India at third base. Since Suarez is one of the best trade chips the Reds have to offer, this proposal might get close to Black Sabbath status. Now we just need to get further north…

Trade Proposal #3: Party in Oslo

Fake blockbusters are always fun to speculate about and this would certainly qualify as a blockbuster. Senzel, Greene and India would no doubt get the Mets attention, not to mention Mahle who is also a potential #3 starter. This is a really extreme example that poses a lot of risk for the Reds both in the short-term and long-term. Even with the addition of Ronny Mauricio as a higher-ceiling shortstop prospect and a throw-in reliever Robert Gsellman, the Reds would lose four potential pieces to the next competitive team while only gaining one known commodity who could be hurt or past his best years.

Surely there is a scenario where this trade could work out for the Reds long-term. Personally, I hope that is not the case and would not consider making this trade. I am not sure if this is what the Mets mean by Norwegian death metal, but this is my best guess and I do not like it. I think I’ll stick to the Grateful Dead.

Photo Credit: Arturo Pardavila III. Photo was slightly altered. Licensing can be found here

47 Responses

  1. Matt WI

    Matthew… excellent commitment to the theme! Great post, interesting ideas. I agree pop-punk trade is a no-go. Party in Oslo just might get it done. Reds better start dancing before someone like the Brewers bring Thor to the NL Central instead.

    • Matthew Habel

      Thanks! I would consider scenario #2 (not sure the Mets would) but even that seems steep just to block him from getting into the division.

      • Matt WI

        No, I agree. I don’t see it as something that the Reds should seriously consider. Just wanted to have a rave for a second.

  2. matthew hendley

    I like number 1, but adding on another minors piece like Siri or Aquino.
    Number 2 seems like an overpay.
    Number 3 is an overpay.

    I like the site in the Its better then nothing sense but the simulators have some significant flawed trades that get approved sometimes.

    • Matthew Habel

      Totally agree. The point was to put some names out there to see what an overpay would look like since that’s the only way Thor is leaving NYM.

      • Linkster

        I like option #1. But, add Tucker Barnhart and ask for Wilson Ramos. This would give the Reds a great starter and a solid catcher. The Mets would get a former gold glove catcher and the other young talent you have listed. Also, save a bunch of cash.

  3. Jim Walker

    I don’t believe the Reds are close enough overall to give up the rising talent suggested for 2.5 years of Thor. Suarez might make sense if the Reds could pick up a top flight CF in conjunction in the off season and move Senzel back to his natural position.

    To move the musical theme to my genre and generation, otherwise Thor could well turn out to be just another new kid in town headed for the fast lane.

      • Jim Walker

        Yes, and many props to JD Souther and Joe Walsh in my scenario.

    • ToBeDetermined

      I’ll second Matthew. very creative.
      “Thor could well turn out to be just another new kid in town headed for the fast lane.”

  4. Linkster

    Why don’t the Reds get Wilson Ramos from the Mets? The Reds need a catcher that can hit. Ramos can hit and play “D” behind the pate. Also, he is under control for another year at a reasonable salary.

  5. Scott C

    If we were ready to contend, I might consider overpaying, but I don’t believe we are there yet, so no to 2 and 3 and meh to #1 although if I was trading Trammel I would rather get more than 2 1/2 years of a power pitcher. How about going Olivia Newton John “Have You Never Been Mellow”

  6. Klugo

    How much team control does Thor bring with him?

  7. Kyle

    Good article Matt. I love reading articles like this and it is fun coming up with trade ideas. Switching gears on the team but how about this?

    -Reds get Stroman and Gurriel for Mahle, Lucas Sims, Taylor Trammell, and Lyon Richardson

    The top 3 starters for the Reds through at least next season would be Castillo, Stroman, and Gray (just got goosebumps). Gurriel has played first, second, and left and is controllable through 2024 through arbitration.

    Probably not enough, but like I said, this kind of stuff is fun

    • Matthew Habel

      Yeah, I don’t know enough about the Jays motivation to move those guys. Seems like a decent haul but that is a lot of potential the Reds would be sending more than anything else.

    • Grand Salami

      To get Thor the simulator requires a top 3-5 value player from the Reds.

      I did Senzel, India and Mahle for Nimmo and Thor and threw in their catcher Ramos who has a bad contract but control through next year. It was an overpay by the Reds according to the simulator but approved. I didn’t like it.

  8. doofus

    Hmmm, Matt. I wonder where you got the idea for this Syndergaard trade story?

    • Matthew Habel

      From the tweet about death metal?

  9. RojoBenjy

    I hope, when comes to the Syndergaard dance, that the Reds remain a wallflower. Thor is more likely to roll an ankle on the dance floor and spend 1.5 of his remaining 2.5 years of control in the school nurse’s office.

  10. Seat101

    I’t will take the A-Train to acquire a String of pearls. The New York Mets would like some Yankee dollars along with Suarez and Peraza.

    Then we can sing along with Perry Como and Get a Ring.

  11. TR

    I see little happening as the trade deadline comes and goes. The days of Trader Jack McKeon and Jim Bowden as exponents of shaking things up are over. The talk makes for daily excitement, but that’s about it.

  12. Pete

    Noah Syndegaard has regressed in these major pitching categories over his last three systems, less 2017 when he only had 7 starts. Listed from years 2016, 2018, 2019:

    xFIP: 2.67. 3.29, 4.22
    K/9: 10.68, 9.04, 8.60
    BB/9: 2.11, 2.27, 2.56
    WHIP: 1.15, 1.21, 1.28

    His fastball velocity is holding but I believe he is too great a risk for the Reds to make the investment. Honestly, I think I’d rather have Mahle with the contract numbers considered. I say pass.

    • Pete

      Just for grins, Mahle’s 2019 numbers:

      xFIP: 3.84
      K/9: 9.62
      BB/9: 2.43
      WHIP: 1.24

      • ToBeDetemined


        Interesting. And before I looked at your numbers I thought I’d rather have Mahle also.

    • Michael E

      Yeah, much like Archer last year, I find talk of Syndergaard being an SP1 or Ace laughable. He looks the part for a few starts here or there, but his career so far has been injuries and disappointment.

      He is WAY too risky. it’s one thing to overpay for a young gun that has maybe missed one or two starts, but to overpay greatly for an SP2- or SP3+ (if you’re honest, this is Syndergaard now), is jsut silly.

      If we’re going to send three of our top 6 or 7 prospects (like Greene, Trammell and Senzel or India) we’d better be getting a 3 year + controllable stud pitcher or hitter on the way to becoming an Ace or clean up hitting all-star. I don’t see the point of trading for good, not great with baggage.

  13. Bill Hedges

    You’d probably have to send a Miami Sound Machine-like Conga (line) to get Wild Thing II.

  14. wizeman

    Jerry Garcia just called me. Said no to anything with Senzel, Greene or India
    asks why we haven’t signed puig.

  15. Reds Fan In FL

    I would offer Pat Zachry, Doug Flynn, Steve Henderson and Dan Norman and see if the Mets agree.

    • wizeman

      Wilpon always a great judge of talent. See if he will take Bernie Madoff. Too soon?

    • Matt WI

      Bronson Arroyo probably could play some death metal on his guitar. Maybe that would work.

  16. Tom Mitsoff

    I would at least have to think about all three ideas, since it means controlling Syndergaard for 2.5 more seasons, with Castillo and Gray also in the fold for at least those same 2.5 seasons. That threesome can not only win you post-season games but post-season series.

    • doofus

      Consider Syndergarrd, Gsellman and Andres Giminez for Suarez, Mahle, Peraza and Barnhart.

  17. Brian S Jolley

    I can’t imagine the Mets being okay with #1, or the Reds okay with #2 or #3. I would like to be able to land Thor though. I would definitely be willing to part with India and Trammell, but not Hunter with Thor’s injury history. If they would take India, Trammell, and Peraza I would do it in a heartbeat. If Senzel can take over third, then I would trade Suarez and Disco for him as well.

    • ToBeDetermined

      ” If they would take India, Trammell, and Peraza I would do it in a heartbeat. ”
      I wonder if that will “wow them”

      • wizeman

        shoulder medication wearing off. a bit more nuanced look.
        i would consider suarez and disco but think they would want mahle instead.
        but i am beating same drum… would really want to see if we can sign puig. move senzel to third leaves a hole in the outfield. don’t want two holes.
        santillian injury makes things a bit dicier.

  18. Marc rigby

    Here is one

  19. Steve Schoenbaechler

    One thing to consider about Noah, we would only get him 2021, earlier if we don’t offer any arbitration. Are we going to fund him?

    Also, another thing to consider, I believe, is I would want Noah to pass a very thorough test. For, he’s not pitching this year anywhere near where he has been in the past. That might be because of an injury.

    Or, simply look at how he’s been pitching. As in, something like with Gray, I heard the Yankees were having Gray work his fastball more, and that was the reason for Gray’s lack of success with the Yankees. Is there something similar with Noah.

    If we trade for Noah, I say we include at least one starter. For, we don’t have a great number of OF’s or C’s or anything like that. Any trade we make is probably going to be “position for position” with fillers to wrap it up.

    I could see the Met’s doing #1, in order to get Trammell. What we need to consider, where Trammell would be for us position-wise, who do we have for that position? right now, Trammell has played mostly LF then CF. So the question is, do we move Senzel or Winker, via trade or to RF (meaning we will get rid of Puig), or do we plug Trammell in RF? Or, if we move Senzel out of there, say move him to 3rd, then where is Suarez? Or, if we move Senzel to 2nd, we lose Dietrich, Farmer, and Scooter. Just so many factors to consider. . .

    I say, not considering the fillers to complete a trade, I would send the Mets Disco and Greene. I would make the trade contingent on Noah passing a physical as well as possibly agreeing to an extension after the physical. And, as I mentioned, we would add others to complete the trade. I, myself, would probably prefer to keep Winker or Trammell, one of the other. But, with the Mets, are they even looking for a major league ready OF?

    I wouldn’t have a problem letting Greene go, actually. For some reason, I see Brien Taylor in Greene. Who’s Taylor? He got a lot of the similar hype years ago when he was the top draft choice with the Yankees. And, he got injured in the lower minors, like Greene did, and never really got out of the minors. I just don’t believe we will ever see Greene.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      I may even consider throwing in Barnhardt. I’m happy with Casali and Farmer right now, myself. Hopefully, we can get a catcher up here, or off FA, if one of them falter or looks better.

    • doofus

      Do you think that the Mets would want all the players going to them to also pass physicals, especially DeSclafani and Greene?

  20. Steve Schoenbaechler

    Honestly, I would let Peraza go and bring up Colon.

  21. Indy Red Man

    I don’t think I trade this new 96-97 mph version of Disco! He’s had a 3.06 era since June over 6 starts. Take the 1 bad start in Milw away and he’s got a 1.61 era since June. He’s also only allowed 3 hrs in 32.1 innings in June/July and with an excellent 35/8 K/BB ratio. I’d have to see if he can keep it up and stay healthy thru the rest of the season!