Over at The Athletic, long-time Reds writer Mo Egger made the case this past weekend that the Reds need to be sellers at the trade deadline. His case hinges on this paragraph:

This is a chance for the Reds to be proactive, not necessarily in an effort to liquidate and sell off pieces for less than they’re worth, but to capitalize on having a cadre of players who can be flipped for assets that can further push a rebuild that’s yielding results.

I understand Egger’s point, but over the course of the Reds six-year long rebuild, no paragraph of writing about that process has frustrated me more. It’s a knee-jerk take rooted in the Reds’ scuffling at the plate and coupled with businessman’s perspective of baseball, not a fan’s.

No fan should ever use words like “liquidate” and “capitalize” or phrases like “flipped for assets” and “yielding results.” That Egger does shows that baseball owners have successfully poisoned the well of the sport’s discourse. We as fans now care more about payroll and future returns than the actual product on the field, which if you haven’t noticed of late, is pretty dang fun!

From Derek Dietrich’s home runs to his antics, Jesse Winker’s perpetual smile to Jose Iglesias’s on-field finesse, Yasiel Puig’s bat-licking to Joey Votto’s infield wind sprints, Amir Garrett’s strikeout roar to Luis Castillo’s strut, this team is immensely pleasurable to watch. These days, when I turn on a Reds game or check Reds Twitter, it doesn’t feel like a chore. Instead, I get to see a talented team hold their own against the luminaries of the National League all the while providing endless highlights and laughs.

More than anything, I take issue with the idea that the Reds opportunity to be “proactive” is contingent on selling. The Reds were proactive this winter, as Egger notes. They brought in Yasiel Puig, Tanner Roark, Derek Dietrich, and Jose Iglesias. They took gambles on Matt Kemp and Alex Wood. They finally saw their young core realized, and they made moves to bolster it. By being buyers this past offseason, the Reds created the character of this team. Why would you “liquidate” a Reds team that finally figured out how to be entertaining?

Egger writes that they didn’t go “all-in,” so why not go all-in now? The Reds were finally proactive this offseason, why take the reactive step of selling the team now after slower start than expected?

Also, who is Egger even recommending the Reds trade? He lists Luis Castillo, Sonny Gray, Eugenio Suarez, Nick Senzel, Jesse Winker, Amir Garrett, and Robert Stephenson as building blocks for the future so they’re out. The Reds wouldn’t dare trade Votto, plus his 10-5 rights and contract likely make a move impossible. Neither Puig nor Roark are big enough superstars to justify another team trading any prospect of value for a half-season rental, which, as last season proved, are diminishing in popularity for superstar-caliber players too.

That leaves who: Scooter Gennett, Derek Dietrich, and Raisel Iglesias? Maybe Tucker Barnhart?

Of those four, only Iglesias will draw any prospects of serious consideration in return. Dietrich’s resurgence may be the real deal but good luck convincing another team of that. And both Gennett and Barnhart were kicked around in rumors all winter, giving all indication that the Reds tried to deal them but found no takers. The truth of the matter is: The Reds selling at the deadline doesn’t make any sense because the Reds don’t really have anyone of value they’d be willing to sell.

But this trade deadline is a chance for the Reds to be proactive, just not for the reasons Egger thinks.

Instead of taking Egger’s advice and preparing to sell, the Reds should “further push a rebuild” by buying at the deadline. Selling does not capitalize on the Reds young players. Selling only shows that Bob Castellini cares more about his bottom line than bringing winning back to Cincinnati. Why not deal for a high-leverage reliever or a third ace to take the mantel after Castillo and Gray?

Egger should argue that the Reds need to be buyers right now. With David Bell’s bullpen usage through the roof and the dropoff in quality Reds relievers after Raisel Iglesias, Michael Lorenzen, and Garrett, why not sign Craig Kimbrel? No one else seems to be making him any offers.

To argue that the Reds need to sell boils baseball down to a binary: Either win the World Series or cut payroll. As a fan, that makes next to no sense to me. The Reds can compete this year. The Castellinis have the money to spend. Giving up on the former because you’re worried the later may not be true makes no sense on July 30, much less May 20.

I understand Egger’s argument, but I don’t think resignation is the feeling anyone should accept in the second month of a six-month season. The Reds should not decide in May to be sellers because 1) unless they’re trading Castillo, they won’t get much back anyway and 2) it’s May!

After the last few years, I understand the impulse to panic and hit the eject button on hope and optimism. But give it another month at least. Trust me on this one.

73 Responses

      • TomN

        Agreed. For once I can turn on a game in the 3rd inning without being certain we are behind 6-2. Such a relief. Plus we’ve got some good players who just aren’t hitting yet. And others like Iglesias are just terrific. His defense alone is a treat. Now Senzel is here. I agree about Kimbrel. Why not go after him? You can’t tell me Castellini doesn’t have the $. When Gennett is back, hopefully he can supply a spark to this offense (which is starting to come around).

        Post edited: Tom – don’t curse. You know better than that.

  1. RSI

    Nice fan article. However, it won’t do a thing to further enhance the winning. If the goal is to be, as the author says, ‘entertaining,’ then go for it. Otherwise, quit being the Reds and get busy building a team.

    • greenmtred

      If baseball isn’t entertaining to enough people, it will cease to exist. Its only reason for being is that it is entertainment. Somebody is going to counter with the point that if the Reds win they’ll be entertaining. True, to a point, but consider how many people comment on RLN how much they dislike soccer because it’s so boring. Well, one team or another wins most soccer games, and that doesn’t help.

  2. Alex

    I love the Reds and appreciate the dedication and enthusiasm of the writers of this web site. That said, this is a last place team going nowhere with little chance of anything. I like the goofiness but I like winning more. Unless they win 30 of their next 40 I’m hoping Dick Williams has the guys to admit his plan failed and sell off parts so we can maybe win next year.

    • Jeff Gangloff

      Again, who exactly are you going to sell? Puig? Roark? Dietrich? Wood?

      None of those guys will return anything that will even justify trading them. Hang on to the pieces, let the season play out, and enjoy the ride.

      It is what it is at this point.The Reds are already in a good position for next year. Low payroll, emerging young talent, and some really good core pieces.

      • Pete

        Personally I wouldn’t rule out Joey Votto. You’ll never get another team to pay off his contract but if you can get a decent sum to offset it I certainly would consider it. Personally I don’t think his problems are in his head or somehow he forgot to hit a baseball but it is age related. Yes 36 years old is rather young to all the sudden lose it but I wonder about the conditions of his legs, does he have a firm enough base underneath him to manage much power.

        I’d like to think there is a team or two out there, who will be in the chase for the championship, that would take that risk. Anything the rents received in return, player wise, would be icing on the cake. My point is to reduce the investment we have been him moving forward. I highly doubt Joel we will be part of the next red’s championship team.

      • Alex

        Did you even read my comment? Read my last sentence.

      • Victor

        So we just let them walk for nothing? If we feel like they won’t take the qualifying offer then great, get the draft pick, but I don’t understand the reasoning here: “They won’t get us a top prospect so let’s just get nothing in return.”

        Let’s be realistic here, the reds are not going to sign Puig and Roark long term, nor would I want them to. What contending team wouldn’t want to add some power to their lineup/a solid 5th guy for a playoff push?

      • Joe Atkinson

        I would definitely entertain offers for a guy like Roark at the deadline. Not saying the return would be worth it, and if it wouldn’t, then obviously, you don’t pull the trigger on a deal. But once upon a time, Luis Castillo came to Cincinnati in exchange for Dan Straily. At the risk of stating the obvious, I think you always keeps your ears open because this team isn’t good enough to pass on a deal that would make the team better in the next year or two.

      • Ghettotrout1

        I agree one hundred percent with Jeff. They have no pieces that will bring back any value that they are willing to trade. So it is what it is.

      • burtgummer

        Enjoy the ride?
        The ride of being in last place with no hope of change in the near future?

      • Colorado Red

        Not true, Puig will return a lot. Roark? he has pitched well, and will get a nice not a great prospect. Wood will not return anything, Dietrich might return a nice prospect (not top 100). So keeping players who are FA’s and getting nothing back is the MO of this team.
        Time to make a change.

      • burtgummer

        I don’t think Deatrich leaves at all as he still has 1 year of arbitration left

  3. Jeff Gangloff

    This is really good stuff. I agree 100% with what you are saying.

    It’s the middle of May. Everyone needs to calm down on the trade stuff. The Reds could be leading the division by the end of the month (not likely, but you get the point).

    You did forget one name the Reds could flip at the deadline…Alex Wood. Im sure if we package him, Puig, and Roark then the Reds could potentially trade for a guy like Homer Bailey.

    • Eric

      “…then the Reds could potentially trade for a guy like Homer Bailey.”

      *chuckle* You’re right, though, Jeff: everyone does need to calm down on the trade stuff this early in the season.

      And Wes, you’re spot-on, as well: If the team provides you more good moments than bad over the course of a season, then the season was a success. It’s not just a binary “if you ain’t first, you’re last” proposition.

  4. Kyle

    I don’t want to sell either. Trust me I’m tired of watching lousy baseball. BUT….

    If a reliever desperate team who is competing this year (Looking at you, Atlanta) calls the Reds asking about Raisel Iglesias and are willing to include a blue chip prospect to try and “go for it” this year, they should at least consider it. The Yanks did it with Chapman a few years ago and got Gleyber Torres. I’m sure they don’t regret that. ALWAYS TRADE RELIEVERS.

    On the other side…

    The Reds added Scott Rolen at the deadline in 2009 and it helped them compete the following season. He helped the team get “over the hump” of competing and they won the division. Not sure who that player would be, maybe another starting pitcher, but it would be another interesting strategy to consider.

    Or they can sit on their hands and do nothing. They have a solid core now and a solid farm system not to mention the #7 pick in the draft. The formula is there to be competitive for years to come.

    It will be an interesting summer…..

    • Alex

      I’d trade any player at any time if it equates to winning baseball in the future.

  5. George

    Wesley writes;
    -coupled with businessman’s perspective of baseball
    – Selling only shows that Bob Castellini cares more about his bottom line
    -The Castellini’s have the money to spend

    The above 3 statements are the reason the Reds ownership has made itself a pile of money with a losing product;
    1. They ARE business men and not fans (fanatics).
    2. The bottom line is what owners are supposed to take care of. Especially if it is their money invested.
    3. The Castellini’s (ownerships) money is not the fans money to spend let alone be worried about.

    I recently posted about this upcoming June: If the Reds are not in the playoff mix, then look for what they do with Scooter on his return. If he comes back on fire, they can trade him off, if he comes back closer to his history, most likely they will not resign him for next year ($$$). Remember, Scooter did not cost the Reds any real money to acquire but if they can trade him off for some futures, they are still ahead of the game.

  6. Eric Wormus

    This argument would make more sense to me if these guys were all under contract next year. Fact is, they aren’t. This isn’t a team that is currently “building” towards something. It is a team that was haphazardly thrown together in the hopes they’d catch lightning in a bottle and distract the fan base from what was and is an utterly failed rebuild.

    Next year, if there is any hope for this team to compete, they are going to have new starters at CF/RF/2B/SS. Probably catcher too. That’s at least half of the starting lineup. What’s the point of running these guys out to finish out the string in August 6 games under .500 and 15 games out of first? What could they possibly be building to?

    I’m 100% with you in telling Bob to open that wallet of his, If you want him to sign Kimbrall and Keuchel for the next 2-4 years, I’m right with you. Couple those moves with trades of Iglesias/Roark/Wood. Hell, toss Amir Garrett in there and see what you can get too.

    Puig and Kemp combined for 950 PA for the Dodgers last year. Wood threw 150 innings. They combined for 5 WAR. Scooter got over 500 PA for the Brewers the year before the Reds picked him up. Milwaukee and LA are doing just fine. This season, like the ones before it, was over before Mother’s Day. If you’re happy being a 75-78 win team, it will make Bob’s life really easy (and really cheap).

    • Broseph

      This. I think many will agree that Castellini has lost interest in championship baseball. 2012 was it. You could just smell the series. The decisions since then come across as disinterest combined with poor GM decisions.

      Since then, the Reds FO is a business first. I don’t care about uniforms, wind sprints, chest pounding, fake pesticides, or bat kissing. I care about playoffs and championship baseball.

      This team is half players on rental and in their twilight years, and the other half is failed trades/prospects mixed with legit prospects. You literally have 3 legit field players and 5 starters/relievers that will be here in three years.

      Unless the farm is suddenly loaded with mlb-ready talent in a two year period, there needs to be acquisitions in order to make a serious run again. Too many players are rentals, or getting old, or just not good in order to expect the current makeup to win this year or next year

      • burtgummer

        I don’t believe for a minute that Castellini is remotely interested in winning baseball.I expect he’ll just spew out a few more lies this off season in an attempt to get more fan money.
        I’m convinced that the Reds will not have a serious contending team until the Reds have new ownership

    • Doc

      You spend 5-6 years rebuilding, get a solid core of young talent who are maturing into producers, and you want to trade off all that talent because you had a bad start? That makes no sense to me.

      • Colorado Red

        No trading the core talent, but the FA’s next year.
        For R Iggy, would take the farm.
        but for Roark? A nice return.

      • Eric Wormus

        Which young players developing into producers did I mention as trade candidates? It’s the exact opposite. The Reds 25 man roster has at most 3 players that fit that description (Senzel, Suarez, Winker). I want to trade off the older, not solid core of players on one year deals precisely because the Reds don’t have the young core that good teams have.

  7. RichS

    I agree with you solution but disagree with your characterization that business and fans are incompatible.
    What is more incompatible than the new data geeks who have removed the “thinking” from the player and turned the game into a bunch of robots.

    • RojoBenjy

      The dream is that someone figures out how to marry the old and new into a very good middle ground.

      • Seat101

        Thank you Wesley!

        Game after game posters complain about this play or that play or this decision or that decision and all the time there’s a really fun baseball game going on.

        I’ve been watching some great baseball this year. A lot of, really. And I appreciate what the front office has been able to do in less than one year.

        In fact, across the front office. And I would not have been comfortable saying that the last three years.

        Keep up the good work, Wes.

      • VaRedsFan

        Seat….all of those great games you comment on, where the Reds are being shut out on 3 hits may be fun and entertaining to you, but not the fans that are interested in winning, and the team not making fundamental baserunning and fielding errors. We don’t applaud participation trophies.

  8. David Rutherford

    Excellent article. I like how you are disagreeing with Mo Egger without resorting to some kind of character assassination. There really are points to be made for both opinions. I just want the game to be entertaining and the guys on the team to be likable and hard working. The struggle to make a great team and getting to the pinnacle of the sport by winning a championship is what makes sports engaging and why I want to follow my hometown team. I don’t like it when a team can just buy their way out of bad decisions and win because they just have more money. That is why baseball, by and large, isn’t very interesting because a team like the Reds starts with a huge disadvantage by not being able to afford a 250 mil payroll like other teams. When an underdog team wins (like in 1990) it becomes much more memorable and satisfying. So please don’t trade the team. Let them play and do their best. They deserve the chance to climb that mountain and if it makes sense, add to the group to give them help and give the fans hope. That’s what being a fan is.

  9. Enfuego

    Very good article. There is always the caveat that you trade anyone if the offer is good enough. I could see roark having some value for a contender down the stretch for example. Absent a real return let the guys play and if they play we’ll discuss bringing them back. Most likely other trade candidates would be the veterans in the pen who have been excellent but may bring something back.

  10. Jason

    This article made the point I’ve been thinking all along. The only way for the Reds to be “sellers” would be to decide that the young core they have is not who they want to move forward with. Selling implies getting something of value for something else. The things of value on this team go by the names of Castillo, Senzel, Winker and Suarez. Moving them for prospects would be “selling”. Now, strategically packaging parts you don’t see around in the next 2-3 years for usable pieces to the puzzle, that’s called “trading” and I would advocate the Reds should look to do that for complementary pieces a la Scott Rolen. Greene or Trammell (or anyone else the Reds envision as part of their core) wouldn’t be on the table for me, but moving minor league pieces in packages to get major league caliber players would be on the table if you truly believe you have a core built to win in the near future. “Selling” is not where the Reds are right now. “Trading” could end up being even more important to their short-term success and maximizing their current core players.

  11. doofus

    “Bringing championship baseball to Cincinnati is the ultimate goal.” I agree. There no longer is an opportunity to trade players that have cleared waivers after July 31st. Hence, decisions and preparations to move decisions are moved up.

    “Why would you “liquidate” a Reds team that finally figured out how to be entertaining?” After reading this sentence, my take away from this article is the Reds should not trade players, because presently the team provides “endless highlights and laughs.”

    For laughs I will watch the Comedy channel, or listen to Thom Brennaman. For baseball, I want my team, the Reds, to WIN! If trading Red’s players for other players that make the team better in May, June or July, I am for it.

    As presently constituted, the roster still lacks quality. I am sure there is a player or two that they can trade for that will not only contribute on the ball field, but also provide laughter. There, everyone is satisfied.

  12. Old-school

    There’s probably some room between liquidating and don’t trade anyone.
    Tanner Roarck may have some value. The Indians are down 2 elite pitchers and really in a hole behind the Twins. Oscar Mercado is a great defensive speedy CF who is 24 and hit well in AAA . He might be a great addition as outfield depth to a team who needs speed and youth and cost control and defense in the outfield.

    Roarck might get such a player if/when the season tilts in a direction of 2020.

  13. Roger Garrett

    Relievers are not building blocks as I see it.The Reds never gave Amir or Bob Steve legit chances to start 3 years ago so to include them on the list and leave Mahle off is well silly.I agree with the other players along with Mahle.Everybody else should be shopped.Iggy is a closer on a losing team with a 3 year deal at a reasonable cost and its a no brainer on him.The rest may not have any value at all but get what you can get for the rest of the roster,maybe you get lucky or maybe you don’t but for goodness sake don’t get in to that we think we can we think we can mode again.Package them together,get creative,throw in some dough and get a position player or two that is young and can play now.Would Roark and Iggy together bring you one.How about Disco and Iggy.I have said it before do other teams want are players?Maybe not on a one for one deal so group em together.How about Amir and Roark?Lots of scenarios.

  14. BigRedMike

    The issue is that the Reds have failed to develop young talent. In order to obtain additional talent, you need players to trade, which requires development.
    The free agent market is shrinking as teams are locking up their players. The free agent market will be an option if a team is trying to support a strong core. The Reds do not have a strong core of young players.
    As noted, the Reds have very few players to trade to obtain talent. There does not appear to be any players in the minors close to being ready to help.

    The Reds are at the point where fans are wanting Dietrich, Iglesias, Gennett, Puig, etc. to be extended. These are marginal aging players that will not get the Reds into NL Central contention.
    Votto declining is not going to help.

    In regards to ownership and having fun. If you watch other elite teams, they make a lot of money and the players seem to be having fun, winning. The Astros players have significantly more fun than the Res players. Yankees make a ton of money and have a lot of young talent.

  15. jreis

    Excellent write up Wesley and this is a discussion that can go on for ages. I am a lifelong Cincinnati fan who roots for both the Bengals and Reds. I have accepted the fact the Bengals will never go to another super bowl and in fact the chances of them leaving town is greater than them ever winning a playoff game again. Having said that I get down to 1 game a year just to support them and for the entertainment value.

    Now with the reds I am much more invested. I watch or listen to almost every game and try to make one game a series. Why? Not because baseball is any more entertaining than football. In fact as an old timer (and I think a lot of Old timers would agree with me) the game of baseball is getting harder and harder to watch. it is because I have seen 6 world series and 3 world series championship teams. I have seen hall of famers and perineal all stars play and in the back of my mind I hope I can experience this again.

    however watching the reds this week I got to tell you I am becoming more hopeless. these “super teams”, the dogers and cubs really have no weaknesses. Even our BRM had weaknesses. yes we can beat them on occasion but will we really ever be able to compete with them again in the era of huge payrolls and analytics? I hope so but I am more inclined to think the reds will be more like the bengals. just for entertainment, not winning.

  16. Optimist

    ABC – Always Be Closing. Everyone is expendable for a price, but perhaps the price is changing from “prospects”/build-for-the-future to more talent now. Alas, the game seems to have evolved into trading for short term MLB talent only, or FA signing talent long term.

    Kudos for the Cubs for the Chapman/Torres trade – that may be the last super prospect for vital rental trade we see for a while.

  17. WVRedlegs

    I think the Reds could still be “entertaining”, and still go out and be buyers and sellers at the trade deadline. This deadline is going to be different than the past ones just due to the new rule of no August trades. Teams will have to decide which direction they go earlier now.
    What players to keep and build around? Suarez at 3B, J. Iglesias at SS, Nick Senzel at 2B, Jesse Winker OF, Luis Castillo SP, Tyler Mahle SP, Amir Garrett RP, Michael Lorenzen RP, Robert Stephenson RP, and Cody Reed RP. That is only 10 players.
    Players under contract for 2020 that will be counted upon: Joey Votto at 1B, Sonny Gray SP, Raisel Iglesias RP, and Jared Hughes RP (team option). That is 14 players now.
    Starting 8: C- ????, 1B- Votto, 2B Senzel, SS Jose Iglesias, 3B- Suarez, LF- Winker, CF- ????, RF- ????.
    The 2020 rotation: Castillo, ????, Gray, Mahle, ????.
    The 2020 bullpen: R. Iglesias, Garrett, Lorenzen, Hughes, Reed, ????, ????, ????.
    The 2020 bench: Derek Dietrich 2B/3B/1B/LF; Curt Casali C/1B; Phillip Ervin LF/CF/RF; and Kyle Farmer C/1B/2B/SS/3B/LF/RF.
    Now at 17 players with 8 spots to fill for 2020. A spot or two could be filled by an impending free agent or two. A spot or two also might be filled from the Reds minors leagues. Do some heavy lifting for the 2020 roster at this coming trade deadline while leaving a couple of items on the to-do list for this winter. Use August and September to gel as a team and gain momentum to bulldoze right into the 2020 season. No more 1-8 and 3-18 starts.
    Be buyers AND sellers this year.

    • Lwblogger2

      That’s a nice breakdown WV… I agree that it doesn’t necessarily need to be either/or.

  18. Amarillo

    I am 27 years old born in 1991, I am not old enough to remember 1995. I have never in my entire life seen the Reds win a playoff series.

    I have Zero interest in being “competitive”. I want to win a World Series. I am eternally optimistic because I love baseball, but if we are still in last in mid July, you must see what people are willing to give you for the expiring contracts.

  19. Seat101

    Va Redsfan

    What did you expect? If you thought the Reds would make the playoffs this year I can see why you are upset.

    I didn’t. I’d pected and am seeing a hung ho team made up of cast-offs and rookies and at least one superstar and bench players playing together for the first time. I do expect them to play better together as the season moves on. Right now they are holding their own against most of the best in the NL.

    And you are honestly saying you’re not impressed with the pitching and enjoy watching it?

    Perhaps you are a winning fan and not so much a baseball fan?

  20. Colt Holt

    I don’t agree that the reds should sell this year (yet), but I completely agree that they totally botched the start of the rebuild, with the timing (or lack there of) trades regarding Cueto, cozart, Chapman, Frazier, disco (who could have brought in a Kings ransom with control before he got hurt…that team never needed a number two who may have seen a couple years of contention in the back half of his control) and others

  21. Eric the Red

    Does anyone think carrying both Dietrich and Scooter will make sense? Especially if we continue with a short bench? Trading either of them won’t push the rebuild ahead much, but I just can’t see how keeping both of them makes any sense.

    • Pete

      Scooter is limited to 2B, DD can play LF, 3B, 2B and 1B. Not really redundant, DD is cheap keep him. Scooter is very good keep him for now. If JV doesn’t rebound, you’ll be happy you have Dietrich.

      We all know Joey is the man to keep our eyes on, not acknowledging this won’t make it go away. What if he is still carrying a OPS of .633 at the ASB?

      • Eric the Red

        Then hopefully he finally goes on the DL for his bad back.

      • Pete

        Could be legs, could be back. Could be nothing and he returns to form but I want insurance. Who can play 1st base on this team: Dietrich and Farmer? I wouldn’t let either go until the Votto mystery is solved. If you made me a good deal and would be willing to pick a decent percentage of his contract, I would give it serious consideration.

        He reminds me of Willie Mays at the end of his career. I still consider WM the greatest player in the history of baseball and harbored ill feelings towards the Giants and Mets for letting him go but then I grew up and realized Mays was indeed finished as a Major League ball player. In more recent times, we can look at Mark McGwire. He fell fast as his legs couldn’t support his swings any longer. I couldn’t get over the burly slugger needed his legs healthy to hit those mammoth HR’s.

  22. greg

    “No fan should ever use words like “liquidate” and “capitalize” or phrases like “flipped for assets” and “yielding results.””

    *rolls eyes*

    Having a sound and fundamental understanding of how economics applies to sports hardly constitutes having a “poisoned discourse”.

  23. Seat101

    If Scooter’s rehab and return go seamlessly then the Reds would look at their options.

  24. Roger Garrett

    Line up for tonight’s game is posted.All right lineup outside of Votto against a soft tossing lefty that nobody wanted.Winker sets in place of Peraza.What is it with these speed guys that get chance after chance and year after year?Winker has set two out of the last three times against a lefty but oh wait lets play him against Ryu who maybe the best right now in the NL.Bell must be getting orders from above cause nobody would do that on purpose.Put up with same thing with Billy for 5 years.Tired of this silly stuff.Thought all of this platoon stuff was over when Kemp was released.

    • Seat101

      After all, whoever had such a lousy year last year.

      • Roger Garrett

        Winker’s stats are better in avg,obp,slg and ops for last year,this year and for the career and he has 1000 less at bats.Peraza can spell Dietrich and Iggy and get his at bats.Never should get them in place of Winker.Not down on Peraza just more up on Winker.Peraza is in year 4 and Winker has yet to play a full year.

      • RojoBenjy

        Winker was in the conversation for NL ROY until his shoulder injury.

    • TomN

      Couldn’t agree more. I think Winker is now the best hitter on the team, unless Votto gets his form back. He’s been hitting into bad luck a lot, then had some sort of injury. I’m convinced he’ll be over .300 by years end with and OPS of 850 or 900. He started to assert his power then was out. I hate that Bell sits him so much. He should be playing 6 out of 7, if not 13 out of 14.

  25. TR

    With 29% of the season in the books, the Reds are only 5 games under .500 and four and a half games out of the second wild card game. Let’s give Gennett and Wood a chance to join the team before we start selling, and the question is, what are the sales going to get the Reds that they don’t have this season already.

    • Doug Gray

      By the time Alex Wood joins the team you might not even be able to sell. Gennett, though, is another story.

  26. burtgummer

    Next year Iglesias,Wood,Roarke,Puig,Gennett Hernandez and probably Hughes will be wearing different jersey’s next year (although Hughes has a team option) With no one ready to replace them
    I was guardedly optimistic before the season (which is now gone) but next season it won’t be pretty

  27. Steve Schoenbaechler

    As always, it’s all whether if a good deal comes up. For instance, the Cueto deal with KC, I would still make that deal. The only difference is, we had no clue how the players we did get would end up. But, I would have still made that deal.

    As for who I would let go, that all depends. If you trade anyone, you always want to trade off pieces that the organization is strong in, have a plan B/C/D/E, etc.; then, it’s not as much a “downer” for the organization to let those players go. Second, possibly trade off contracts, if it means you think you can get just as much production at a cheaper price with your plan B. That was the plan, without the actual trade, with Hamilton, that we could get just as much production at a cheaper price.

    As for specifics as in who, sorry, but I am not “up” on that specific knowledge with the organization this time. Anyone out there with more knowledge on this? For example (again, only an example), do we have a lot of young pitching talent in the minors waiting for their shot, which means we could stand trading off some current pitching we have up here (again, for the haters, only an example; I am not saying we have lots of pitching talent in the minors at all)?

  28. Seat101


    The reason he has 1000 you were at bat is because he’s a platoon player and he doesn’t bat against pitchers managers think he can never hit

    I’ll be at Jose Barraza has a better ERA than any of the Reds starters this year or last.

    Doesn’t make him a better pitcher

  29. matthew hendley

    There should not be a fire sale. There should be no more trades to the equivalent of the Chapman trade (out of Cinci to NYY). I understand trading off a reliever here or there. (Looking at the H and H connection as I type that). I can understand trading Roark. (especially if he keeps the current numbers). I can understand Rasiel Iglesias, for the right package. But the reds have a core in place for better or for worse.

    Piece by piece.

    OF: Winker and Senzel will constitute the OF for the foreseeable future. Trammel will be up roughly at the end of 2020 or the beginning of 2021, and that will set in stone the OF for the reds. For next year (2020) consider this idea. Offer Puig the qualifying offer, no extension, no multiple years, just the QO. If he declines and signs elsewhere, the reds win. (extra draft pick) If he signs, yes it may be unfortunate but it will only be unfortunate until July, when he can be traded off. Or he will turn in a good season and it will work out anyway. Regardless no one is held back. Ervin and Deitrich round out the OF.
    IF- 3B Suarez Not moving, (don’t want to move him) 1B Votto- Not Moving (Cant move him, 5-10, NTC). Then come the question marks. Its obvious to all but his family members at this point that Jose Peraza is not a starting anything at this point. Therefore as it stands, both SS and 2B are open after this year. There is no SS depth, of any competency. Blake Terhan could serve as the SS but his glove first bat last profile would much more suit him as a Backup. (Less of course we wish for the return of Paul Janish.) Jose Iglesias is a good stopgap measure while this issue is addressed. getting him for 3 years on something reasonable is a smart move. There are other moves of course, but the old game of, ‘who is replacing Jose Peraza when he get fired again, is starting to get old.
    2B- The answer is staring everyone in the Face. Despite his injury Scooter Gennett is the best current option at 2B hands down. India is Far Far away from the majors and playing a different position entirely. (although he is getting a lot of work at SS which would solve another problem, entirely). Despite rumors to the contrary, a look at similar players to his style indicate that he wouldn’t be due for a major regression until the Age of 35. a 3-5 year deal will get his productive years, he will be amenable to a discount (hometown, injury) and he would still produce 4+ WAR seasons on the regular. Short of a Homer Bailey-Dodgers trade again, there is no option that comes close to providing this at second.

    C- No one is trading for Barnhart, who reportedly calls a good game. So he wont get moved out until Stephenson gets here. Same for Casalli, although there is no harm using him as a trade chip either, he will get back more then cash, which is what we paid for him. Hence, trade one or the other, not both and have a plan in place.
    Backing up the IF- Deitrich, on his last year of team control, and Blandino, healthy and recovered. Add another in if so interested.

    The Rotation- Castillo and Gray are obvious mainstays, and any returns for Disco would probably not outweigh the results that we can get for him, so he can be penciled in. Mahle, no longer blocked by Roark also probably will get a spot. Which leaves one spot open. I would try, on an extreme incentives based contract, to see if Alex Wood would want to come back and attempt to reestablish himself before entering FA again. It is an idea, not without risk (hence the incentives.) but it would fill a lot of holes. If not then make those interested, work for it. Garrett wants to be a reliever, so he is out. (also has effectively dropped his Changeup so only has 2 pitches). Lucas Sims is a possibility. Reed and Stephenson are also possibilities but have received more then enough opportunities to understand staying in the BP. A FA is a possibility. Regardless there should only be one spot to fill.
    Bullpens are fickle, fill it with people not named duke. Simple enough.
    The point is that the reds are at the point where the goal needs to be winning games. Not developing people, not giving people 5th or 6th or 7th chances. And no, not licking bats either (even though I believe he is very close to breaking out). Simply Winning. And its May. Statistically, the season is not over, nor could it be over, at 4 games under. Teach the team how to be competitive.

    • Eric the Red

      I don’t get why you’re so negative about Peraza. He did well last year when put in a stable position. This year he’s been bounced around, lost his job after two weeks because the manager panicked in the face of the whole team’s offensive ineptitude—and is definitely prioritizing winning now over strengthening for next year—and yet he keeps plugging away while providing defensive cover for the infield and the outfield. He’s young. Will he ever be Barry Larkin? No. But he may yet be a valuable player for us.

      • matthew hendley

        Lacks the skill to be an everyday player, lacks the will to be a backup.

        He did well last year because he completely revamped his swing and executed good plate discipline. He lost his job because this year he ditched all that and went back to the 2.5 years of not working plate discipline.
        He has some trade value that is for sure, but he needs time in the minors to fix himself.

      • Eric the Red

        Yeah, because plate discipline is clearly being preached in this organization. He got off to a bad start. So did the entire rest of the team with the partial exceptions of Iglesias and Dietrich. As for your comments about “lacks the will to be a backup”, I didn’t know you work in the Reds locker room; not to mention, not many soft guys make it to the majors in their early 20s.

      • matthew hendley

        surprise! now you know. Oh and he got to the majors on a team that was destined to lose 80+ games and lost his job, twice.
        His lack of willpower not to swing at the pitch outside. Or to make actual hits rather then the lucky dumps to right? How many times does he need to lose his job for you to realize that he is not a good player

  30. matthew hendley

    I don’t understand why no one is commenting about the other big move of the day, where the Cincinnati reds relief pitching depth of the future Anthony Bass jumped ship and signed with the Mariners? Shame,

    Gray pitching himself into trouble, hope he can pitch himself out as well.

  31. Matt Von Dielingen


  32. joshtrum

    While, I don’t want the reds to sell, if we’re still playing at the current clip, and the 1 years/rentals are drawing interest, and return is solid we do it. This team was built to contend on hypotheticals, and for sure contend in a year or two. If we don’t catch fire, we should sell. However, I hope they do catch fire and don’t have to sell.

  33. doofus

    Contending teams and teams that really want to win should be ready to make deals any time.

  34. doofus

    The defense at the keystone is measurably better this season than last. Jose Iglesias at SS and no Scooter Gennett at 2B have helped that improvement.

  35. doofus

    Someone recently made a good point that because Gennett really cannot play another position, but Dietrich is capable of playing multiple posits that the later is more valuable.

    I agree.