Scooter Gennett was picked up for absolutely nothing by the Cincinnati Reds. The Milwaukee Brewers felt that they would be better off by designating him for assignment after the 2016 season than to pay him $2.5M to play for them in 2017. The Reds felt that the infielder was worth that price and scooped him up on waivers. All that he’s done since then is hit .303/.351/.508 and become an All-Star for Cincinnati in 295 games played.

For Scooter Gennett being picked up by Cincinnati wasn’t just another chance. He was coming home, so-to-speak. He was born in Cincinnati and lived here in his early childhood before he moved to Florida. It’s been brought up time and time again that he would be more than open and willing to sign an extension with the Reds. And it has felt like in each of the last two seasons that the Reds have had him on the trade market at the deadline and the offseason and gotten no offers worth considering. If you find that as strange as I do, well, you’re not alone.

With that said, it doesn’t seem that the Cincinnati Reds are exactly looking to keep Scooter Gennett around long term. And he’s speaking out about it. John Fay has more than a few additional quotes in his article at The Cincinnati Enquirer, so be sure to go read that. Some of them you can definitely pick up the frustration, too.

“We’ve definitely opened it up,” Gennett said. “They know I want to play here. They know I enjoy playing on this team. I enjoy the coaching staff. I enjoy my teammates. They know all that. There’s nothing else to tell them at this point. It’s waiting for them to come back, which they have not. (We’ve) heard absolutely nothing. Zero.”

Scooter Gennett has been quite good for the Reds. I think that everyone can agree on that. He’s going to be a free agent after this season. And he will be entering his 30’s. This season he will play it at the age of 29 – still in his peak years. But as we’ve seen in the last two offseasons – teams are basically telling anyone “we aren’t paying you into your 30’s”, unless it’s going to be dirt cheap, or you happen to be an absolutely elite level player.

The problem with Scooter Gennett getting an extension in Cincinnati has a few different aspects to it. First is that the Reds seem to have options to play second base after Gennett would be a free agent. While Nick Senzel is vying for the starting gig in center field in 2019, he’s far more than capable of being a second baseman. And with multiple center field options that could very well be ready in 2020, that could slide Senzel to second base.

However, even if that plan doesn’t play out exactly that way and Nick Senzel remains in the outfield, another of the teams top prospects profiles well at the position. Jonathan India has played both third base and shortstop as a professional since signing in July of 2018. Third base is locked down by Eugenio Suarez, meaning that India’s going to have to play elsewhere. Shortstop likely isn’t in the cards except in emergency situations. That could leave second base as the ultimate destination. He probably wouldn’t be ready for opening day in 2020, but it’s not unrealistic to think he couldn’t be ready by mid-season of 2020, either. There’s some risk there given that he’s barely played in A-ball. But he’s also a top 5 draft pick out of the SEC who should move quickly.

And then of course there’s the money. When the market has seemingly told the Reds and Scooter Gennett that there’s not much interest in his services on the trade market, that probably means that teams aren’t going to be lining up to write big checks for his services either. We don’t know what kind of extension it is that Gennett is looking for. Whether we are talking about years or dollar totals.

What we do know, though, is that the Reds would probably have to spend at least $10M a year for a handful of years to sign Scooter Gennett to an extension. Is he worth that on the market? Yeah, he probably is – even in this weird market we’ve seen transitioned to. For Cincinnati, though, they are looking at their other options that they already have and see that they could have some good ones. And those ones would cost significantly less money. And rightly or wrongly, probably won’t be hitting a decline part of their career, either.

There’s a segment of the Reds fanbase that is going to be quite upset if the Reds let Scooter Gennett walk away in free agency. Especially since he’s expressed his interest in re-signing. He may very well be the most popular player in Cincinnati. And that makes sense. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the team should bring him back, though.

But what if the Reds were to think about bringing him back? That seems like a bit of a stretch given how the first 800 words of this article have played out. Things can change, though. Scooter Gennett wants to stick around. And if the market truly is depressed, not only for his services, but the services of players who are non-super stars, things could make a whole lot of sense to try and make an extension work. If the price is right, and the years are right, AND Nick Senzel shows he can play center field during the year, the stars in the sky could align to make a possible extension make sense for all parties.

Photo Credit: Hayden Schiff. Licensing for the photo can be found here.

80 Responses

  1. Scott C

    And then there is the question of when the DH comes to the NL. If that happens I think the Scooter might be worth a 3 year/ $30 million extension, but I would hesitate to go beyond that at least in years.

  2. matthew hendley

    Agreed, I would keep Scooter around as well, Schebler will start getting expensive, Siri is not a guarantee, Puig, kemp are only around for a year and Senzel could be a good CF. Really would help if Scooter could do some OF work. He obviously wants to be here, would probably be amenable to a hometown discount. He wants to be a Red. Not many players get to play for the team that they grew up watching. Tugs the Heartstrings. Furthermore, He has proven the projections totally wrong to this point. I would take the risk, but not break the bank to do it. I can defiantly understand why he is upset.

  3. The Duke

    I’m curious to what Scooter and his agent sent to the Reds. If they sent them an offer saying “Yeah, I’m ready to resign long term, 6 years, $100 million!”. Then no response was probably the right answer. If you counter something like that with “2 years, $20 million” then you’re going to get another unpleasant response from Scooter as well.

  4. SteveLV

    If the Reds are willing to run payroll in 2020 to $140 million (assuming they spend $30 million on starters next year they aren’t committed to now), they could potentially sign Puig for $18 and Gennett for $10. While that blocks Senzel at 2b or Trammell and Siri in center, or Winker in left! and ultimately blocks India, it does open up a wide range of potential trades. I don’t think it’s what I would do, but it could be interesting.

    • matthew hendley

      Word on the street is that, the reds are already talking about moving India. Siri is far away, still thinking that taking the opportunity to see what senzel can do at short is not a bad idea for the long term.

  5. Don A

    I am biased because he is my favorite player, but Scooter has earned the extension. He is the type of player that they should keep, a solid, hard nosed, team player, that will do whatever is asked of him and he wants to play here! I will not be happy if he is let go after this season…

    • Jim t

      He may get a extension it just may not be with the reds. This is a very good business decision by the reds. They buy themselves another year to evaluate the talent in the minors and do not commit dollars and years at this time. If at the end of the year Scooter turns out to be the best option they still can sign him. Locking him up now makes little sense. While it’s nice Scooter wants to play here do you believe if he gets a long term offer from another team next year he will say I want to be in Cincinnati. Players play where they get the best deal.

    • Thomas Jefferson

      Almost every player says that they want to be ‘here’ while they are under contract ‘here’ (wherever here is) – and it is a smart thing to say to the press (and fans). While a good player who is fun to watch, Scooter also has some serious weaknesses and will be hitting the beginning of a normal decline phase for a second baseman as a new contract would kick in. Would you be happy to see the Reds overpay (relative to the market and their own budget) to keep Scooter?

  6. Andrew A Papier

    Seems like the Reds are finally smartening up if you ask me. Why over pay for a 2nd baseman when they have plenty of in-house candidates to replace him? I am sure Scooter was to play for the Reds, and he’s been great, but it’s not smart business sense to sign him long term at this point, it just isn’t.

    • Indy Red Man

      Bird in the hand my brother! Senzel looks good but he’s always sidelined with vertigo or an injury. They traded the Long kid for Sonny Gray. I always stick up for Scooter but everyone would have to admit his defense was wretched last year. At the same time he really picked it up vs lefties last year. If they’re really starting to doubt India then the options thin out real quick. I would stick Senzel in CF or move him around Ben Zobrist style. See what he can in the bigs in April & May and then the 2B situation may clear up.

  7. Shchi Cossack

    The situation with Scooter will evolve during the 2019 season. There was no reason to pursue an extension during the off season and several reasons for not pursuing an extension during the off season. I sincerely hope that Scooter continues to crush the baseball during the 2019 season, but I believe his free swinging approach at the plate will catch up with him this season.

    In other early ST news…

    “I don’t care where I hit, but I would love to lead off and bat first for this team,” Winker said. “If I am hitting fifth or sixth, I will be the best fifth or sixth hitter I can be. Last year was my first time leading off, and there is just something about starting off the game that I really, really loved and enjoyed doing. If it’s something I am called to do, then I’m going to be the best leadoff hitter I can be. I like to provide flexibility for the manager any way I can.”

    I’m hearing a lot of ‘team first’ comments and they sound genuinely sincere. Plodding and base-clogging aside, I really like Winker leading off until someone with superior ability to get on base and better base running speed becomes available. That might be Senzel once he establishes his ability to hit MLB pitching in 2019 or it might be one of the OF prospects looking for a MLB OF job in 2020.

    • Steve Mancuso

      Me, too. Winker’s combination of power and on-base skills are perfectly suited for leading off. Similar to Shin-Soo Choo.

      • Don A

        I agree, but does is lack of speed give any cause for concern?

      • Steve Mancuso

        Getting on base and hitting with power are much more important qualities for scoring runs than speed.

      • Indy Red Man

        Somebody posted times running times to 1st last year and WInker was in the middle of the pack for the Reds. I think he just gets a horrible jump for some reason. Votto is another one? Slow but just horrible instincts and reactions make him much worse. Hopefully this new manager can clear up some of their shenanigans. Honestly I’ve never seen a team so bad on the basepaths in my life. Scotty Rolen was no track star but he could read the ball off the bat and get where he needed to go! That should be coachable!

    • The Duke

      I know what he means about that thing about leading off that is just gratifying. I coach my kids various baseball teams and I see it there too. Kids are always jacked up to be the first batter up, especially when we get to lead off the game. It’s that gamesmanship and intensity that you like to see if a competitor. I can usually find that kid pretty easily from the ones who just aren’t into it as much. Give me that enthusiasm and excitement in the leadoff role every time as long as the talent differential isn’t too great. I’d be curious to see what kind of various responses you’d get from MLB players in this scenario, but I like what i’m hearing from Winker about it.

      My ideal lineup has Senzel leading off and Winker in the 2 hole so Senzel’s speed can used at the top of the order, and couple that with Peraza’s speed at the bottom of the order (unless Peraza can hit his way into a bigger role).

  8. AllTheHype

    Some of those Scooter comments in the Fay article are surprising, such as “being here two years, busting my butt for the team and seeing other guys get stuff who haven’t been here, it’s like ‘man, OK, sweet.’ You throw your hands up sometimes and go: ‘Really?’ ”

    Did his agent not explain the business of baseball?

    From Reds standpoint, it makes sense to find a position for Senzel this year FIRST AND FOREMOST, before committing anything to Scooter. If Senzel can play a quality CF, then maybe a Scooter extension makes sense. If not, then Senzel needs to take the reins at 2B. Sorry Scooter, but you are defensively limited to a position the Reds are deep on, including a top 10 prospect in baseball. You’ll have to be patient to see if you fit into future plans.

  9. WVRedlegs

    Scooter is screwed if he wants to remain a Red. Best thing for him yo do is take the first half and increase his value to a world series contender. Pro or con his days as a Red are numbered.
    The Nasty Boys of the future, Nasty Boys 2.0 in 2020. And it doesn’t have to be limited to 3.
    1. Amir Garrett
    2. Sal Romano
    3. Cody Reed
    4. Robert Stephenson
    5. And Ryan Hendrix on the way.

      • Matt Hendley

        One worthwhile pitcher and one prospect on that entire list. The rest are garbage. I am tired of these pitchers comming up here and continually producing garbage, and getting a pass while players who produce massively get the shaft, and furthermore dumped on by the peanut gallery. I understand logistically the gray extension, but if he does not get better then it will be a dump of money. Scooter is right to be upset about it.

    • Indy Red Man

      Romano and Stephenson shouldn’t even make the team imo. Mahle will have to pitch out the pen. Amir and Reed have their moments and are lefties of course, but they picked up Duke. Amir prob makes it in the pen. Thats 1 guy thats a fringe reliever out of 4 guys imo. Of course much depends on how Gray, Roark, and Wood look.

      • WVRedlegs

        You guys are going to be very pleasantly surprised by Sal Romano coming out of the bullpen. He is going to be a beast out of the pen. Mark my words.

      • matthew hendley

        Mahle to Triple A to continue development, Amir to the Pen, Reed to the Pen, Never start Reed ever in a Major league Game. Love Romano out of the Pen cause then he isn’t in the rotation.

  10. Steve D

    I think the reds need to decide who they want to resign between Scooter and Puig. There’s not enough room for both unless Scooter is willing to take a one year deal. The main reason is Taylor Tramwell. He should be up no later than 2021. So if we have both Puig and Scooter signed there won’t be room for Tramwell when he gets to the bigs. In a perfect scenario they they sign Scooter to a one year deal (while we wait on Tramwell to get to the bigs) and get Puig long term. If they decide Puig is the one they extend, the lineup would look something like this in 2020-2021
    LF: Winker
    CF: Tramwell
    RF: Puig
    3B: Suarez
    SS: Peraza
    2B: Senzel
    1B: Votto
    C: Barnhart

    If they go the Scooter route I see them keeping Senzel in the OF:
    LF: Tramwell
    CF: Senzel
    RF: Winker

    I think the reason for no extension offer yet is that the reds do not know who they want to extend between the two players but they realize there is not enough room for both. I see the Reds waiting out this season and offering one of the two. And offering the other player a qualifying offer.

    • Old-school

      And DW has said repeatedly the Reds want to stay flexible. That’s the correct call. They have dramatically improved 2019 while preserving the long term. Reds have handled the off-season beautifully.

    • Jeff in AL

      To me, this is a no-brainer. I’ll take Puig everyday of the week. He can play more than one position (sorry Scooter) and will crush homers for years to come in GABP.
      The Reds need to extend Puig before the season starts. With the stats he’ll put up this year, he might price himself out of Cincinnati.
      And I hope that they let him rip off the sleeves on his jersey for the 50’s era. His biceps make Ted Kluszewski look anemic.
      40+ homers and someone ELSE who wants to be here…

      • Michael E

        I want to think the same thing, that Puig will have a monster year, but after his monster first half rookie season, he has continually disappointed. True, he didn’t get complete full-time duties with Dodgers, but I am not certain a breakout will occur here either. The talent is there, but the production hasn’t caught up to it since his first 3 months in MLB.

        Given this stadium and lineup, if he gets 500 ABs, you’d think he’ll easily surpass career highs in runs, RBIs and HRs, but you just can’t tell with Puig. He has been a letdown in fantasy baseball the past few years and rightly so, seemingly struggling to get 65 runs or 25 HRs or 80 RBIs and seems stuck around a .260 avg. Those aren’t special numbers.

        I hope he has a monster year. If he does and wants a boat load, Reds need to pass, given his radical inconsistency. I am looking forward to 2019 though…should be more interesting season than the past 4 years.

      • Indy Red Man

        Well Michael…I’m an old gaseous emission but I’ve seen alot of baseball. Oppo HRs in Dodger Stadium are like 80 yd Td passes in the nfl. They don’t happen often. GABP is another story. A guy as strong as Puig can hit one 370 to right and put it in the 2nd row with ease. Not to mention he has a .324 career batt avg vs the NL Central with .900+ ops vs everyone except Milw. I expect something like 7th-8th best offense in MLB and maybe 3rd-4th in the NL this year. Ok maybe “expect” isn’t the right word but there’s a legit chance anyway

  11. Old-school

    Don’t go there. Reds fans love you and your 4 Homer night is an all time great moment. But, you’re being paid $10,000,000 dollars this year by the Reds less than 2 years after the Brewers released you. That’s fair. Don’t brag about being a great teammate as you then say you don’t understand why Sonny Gray or Eugenio Suarez( implied) got extensions….. and you didn’t. Maybe that #4 jersey fits better.

    • vegastypo

      I’d add one thing:

      Bust your tail to be a better second baseman defensively. Nobody is expecting you to be Brandon Phillips, but with Votto also on that side of the infield, it’d be really nice to have a better glove at second base.

      • greenmtred

        Others have noted that Scooter started looking better at 2nd as the season progressed. And I can’t really blame him for being annoyed that he hasn’t been offered an extension: For the past two years he’s been one of the best hitters on the team–a team that clearly is choosing to build a robust offense. He may be a candidate for regression, but he has been since he got here, and the Reds are no longer as deep at 2nd as we reflexively think.

  12. Roger Garrett

    Everybody loves the guy but his age,his salary,the market for his position and do we have somebody to slide in there all work against him on this team and on other teams.I hope he rakes from day one and wouldn’t be surprised nor would I be surprised if he takes a step backwards.Its the age and the data that is attached to the age that tells the story.

  13. MM

    Gennett’s throwing arm strength and throwing mechanics were very below average in 2019 and before. I read this winter he was rehabbing his shoulder(didn’t realize it was bad, might have been caused by mechanics). Before I offer an extension making him an elite paid second baseman he is going to have to show elite defense including arm strength as well as his bat.

    • greenmtred

      Why does Scooter have to show elite defense when nobody else on the team does? Don’t get me wrong: I’m a fan of good defense, but that doesn’t seem to be a direction the Reds are taking right now.

      • MK

        Because he wants elite money, and shouldn’t a goal be to improve his defense.

      • greenmtred

        The Reds pay elite money to players who don’t field very well. Votto, for one, and Suarez for another, though I’m confident that somebody will say that Suarez isn’t getting elite money . I say again that Scooter looked better defensively last season than he did before, and he may well be better yet if his shoulder issue is resolved.

    • Bob Purkey

      Agree. His shoulder was a problem. His D is weak.
      I like Scooter too, but Scooter has to check the salaries/years given to 2nd basemen right now in FA. Getting a 3-4 year extension at $12/$15 MM. . . good luck with that in the current free agent atmosphere.

      Scooter needs to hope that Senzel does well in CF. If he has issues, the Reds have no choice but to move him to 2B or trade him and I don’t think that the later will happen.

    • LWBlogger2

      Actually, his mechanics were likely bad because the shoulder was barking at him.

  14. TR

    I think Puig will have a breakout year and his extension will strengthen the Reds contention in the NLC from 2020 on.

  15. goat

    The Reds need to be loyal to Scooter by signing him to a reasonable extension. He’s been great and he wants to remain a Red. I know Senzel is the “future”, but so was Kingery with the Phillies. These teams put way to much emphasis on prospects and not enough on proven players. What else toes Scooter have to do? He has over 6 war over the last two years and was second in the league in hitting.
    He should’ve remained silent but he understandably is upset. I feel his days as a Red are now numbered, but the team shouldn’t have led him to believe an extension was in the foreseeable future.
    The attitude in the clubhouse is already turning negative and the season has yet to begin. Best of luck Scooter, you deserve a decent contract and I hope you get it.

    • The Duke

      If Scooter would sign a 3 year $30 million extension, then that’d probably already be done. I’m guessing Scooter is looking for more years and a much higher AAV than that though.

    • Doug Gray

      Did he? Because as noted in the article, it seems that the Reds have been trying to trade him for a year and a half and they haven’t been able to find anything close to a reasonable offer.

      • Matt Hendley

        He didn’t, players can speak up about extending, expecially in a contract year and expecially when they have produced. Scooter will be our second baseman this year .

      • JB WV

        The last thing the Reds want is festering malcontent going into a season of hope after years of disappointment, especially at a position of depth.

      • Matt Hendley

        What depth? herrera, long and dixon are gone, blandino is hurt, Senzels in center. Its not malcontent to provide a path to a positive future for the club. That is an overreaction, Scooter has produced to the level anyone sane would tack a few (1-3) years on his contract. This isnt homer bailey we are talking about here.

  16. Steve Schoenbaechler

    That’s the bad thing about being popular with the fans.

    One reason why we probably haven’t been able to trade him yet is because we’ve been asking too much, or not giving enough.

    If we trade him or let him go, the question is always, “Do we have a plan B?” It is apparent we are at least planning on that.

    I wouldn’t worry too much about Scooter on this. First, this is the business aspect of the sport. Second, Scooter knows he’s playing for a contract. If he produces, we will make an offer. If not, we won’t.

    • Indy Red Man

      The fantasy nerds project Scooter to drop to .278 with 18 hrs or something. Everyone would love to see Senzel break out but he’s averaged 289 atbats per season in the last 3 years in the minors. The biggest ability is availability. I’d say if he comes in and hits with the big boys thru April and May and Scooter declines at all then its adios Scooter. I don’t think Peraza is out of the wood either although they seem to think Senzel can’t play SS for some reason? Half the time Peraza can’t either.

      • Matt Hendley

        Very generous on half the time with peraza, all he has had is one good season on one half of the game. Not taking projections on scooter, they failed miserably last year with him. Use senzel in center this year, if perazas D does not improve, get rid of him bext year when he hits arbitration. Then you have a path for a scooter extension.

      • Doug Gray

        Funny math. The last three seasons…. Nick Senzel played every game in 2016 – the problem is he was drafted mid-season. So he only played half of a year. In 2017 he missed less than two whole weeks. He missed a little more than half of the 2018 season.

      • Indy Red Man

        Good point Doug. I didn’t know Senzel was a midseason callup in 2016. Hopefully this vertigo thing can be overcome. The Reds need the kid to put it together!

  17. TurboBuckeye

    There’s simply no reason to extend him now. We already have him under contract this year. The only upside to extending him would be underpaying him next year (or possibly for the next two years) if he has a monster year this year. But if he did that, we could simply extend a QO to him. I seriously doubt anyone would beat that offer AND give up a draft pick to sign a 30 year old defensively challenged 2B.

  18. Optimist

    Love Scooter, but he’s stuck with two big negatives – wrong league and wrong position. For comparison consider the departure of BPDatDude – superb fielder, rapidly fading offensive skills, immovable to other positions. Reds likely held him 2-3 years too long. Seems they’re not inclined to repeat that experience.

    Much easier call to see if they can get Puig for no more than a 3 yr. extension.

    Still, curious as to the level of interest amongst AL teams – Scooter could last several years there.

    • Matt Hendley

      Immobible to other positions? Like how he took up 3B when he went to alanta, and then LA nearly getting the latter into the Postseason? The BP ending was trash, and a failure by the FO at the time.

      • Michael

        Brandon Phillips would not have played any other position here in Cincinnati. Conversations were had and he was approached more than once by the coaching staff to move positions, but repeatedly said no. He only moved to 3B when he went to Atlanta because he wanted (needed) to play to get another contract.

        I think the FO learned from that experience with BP that they need to be the one calling the shots and not be dictated by the player. Isn’t this what we wanted, for the FO to learn from its prior mistakes and make decisions based on what is better for the team and not simply because “they owe it to them to extend their contract”?

        I don’t think the reds owe him anything. He was DFA’ed by the Brewers a few years ago with little to no interest in him from any other team. The reds game him a deal. Yes, her performed very well and definitely exceeded the deal he signed, but we can’t get stuck with him long term based on the last 2 years of production. That is the problem with baseball that teams are trying to change, paying for past performance instead of future performance.

      • matthew hendley

        “I don’t think the reds owe him anything. He was DFA’ed by the Brewers a few years ago with little to no interest in him from any other team.” A NL waiver claim goes in reverse order of the previous seasons record in the same league. let me check, the most accurate statement was that Philly didn’t want him. Cinci was next in line and no one else got a look.
        “That is the problem with baseball that teams are trying to change, paying for past performance instead of future performance.” the problem there is that people are taking projections as the fricking gospel, Scooter destroyed his projections the year he got here, took 2.5 months to unseat the “2nd Baseman of the future” that the reds had displaced Brandon Phillips for, (that only just found out what a bat was used for last year and still hasn’t figured out what that thing on his left hand is for yet.) Then, after being told they are not resigning him until they make sure he doesn’t regress, he has a better season, becomes an All Star, Solidifies a good season, improves his defense over the course of a season. Injuries aside, Scooter is not regressing. Added pluses, He is from here, is a genuine reds fan, Amiable to a hometown discount. No one is talking about a 10 year deal. He has proven himself though, there is no longer a backlog at second, and Senzel is coming up in another position. We are not going to be able to secure a 2B of his quality next off season without paying similar dollars that he is asking for now. If we move Senzel we will be paying more for a CF to come here. It should be obvious at this point that FA are not choosing Cincinnati as their destination of choice.
        The issue with BP was 10-5 rights. This was seen well ahead of time, and was allowed to take place anyway. The reds should have put Peraza back into AAA and let his contract run out. BP also repeatedly stated that he would move positions throughout his career, SS being the most spoken of destination.

  19. Jeff

    I enjoy watching Scooter play. But I believe he may be overvaluing himself. I don’t blame him for that. Actually it is a sign of confidence and hopefully results in another .290 plus average & 20 plus HR season. However it would be foolish for the Reds not to see how this season goes. They have several choices that will need made if things go well. If things go bad, even more decision may need to be made. I personally think the 9.5 million he makes this year will be the highest one year total in his career. With another good year he may be able to get a 2yr/12-14 million deal is my best guess.

  20. jreis

    I think if the reds got creative they could sign Scooter For maybe a 6 year deal for 30 mil with descending salary as the contract progresses. obviously this is probably his last year as starting 2b for the reds with Senzel as the future second basemen. But boy when the reds are really competing for a pennant in a few years how would you like to have a guy like scooter coming off the bench for a fairly cheap cost.?

  21. Sliotar

    2 things I have not seen commented on yet, which might play into extending Gennett….

    1) Zack Cozart

    A few high-profile commentors (y’all know who you are), in every one of their posts, emphasized that it was imperative that the Reds re-sign Cozart. No alternative.

    He went to the Angels, 3 years, 38M, got hurt, produced only 2.7M of value.
    He is projected for a modest recovery, but mostly on the defensive side. Projected under league average in wRC+.

    If the Reds could pass on retaining 2017 5 WAR Cozart and let someone else pay for his decline years, wouldn’t seem hard to let Gennett walk, especially with league minimum replacements ready.

    • Sliotar

      2) Reds will be in Arbitration soon to pay young guys, assuming they will be retained and have decisions on others….

      Guys whose last year of Arbitration is 2023 (assuming no early extensions)

      Wisler (Year 4 arb)

      DeSclafani is UFA after 2020.
      Casali after 2021.
      Barnhart after 2022.
      Peraza after 2022
      Suarez’s last contract year is 2023

      As a comp for Castillo….
      Kyle Hendricks and Castillo are both projected to be around 2.6 WAR in 2019.
      Hendricks made 4.1M in Arb 1 year (signed contract) and will make 7.4M this year


  22. Mark Moore

    Love Scooter … wouldn’t sign him, at least not at this point. The long-term just doesn’t look as Rosie Red as what we’ve seen.

    This isn’t about loyalty or anything else. It’s about the business of putting our best Reds team on the field and winning. And that’s not “at all costs”.

  23. habesjn

    Is Scooter eligible for a qualifying offer?

    It may be expensive in the short term, but it would allow the Reds another year for their prospects to develop and, if he signs elsewhere, we would at least get some compensation for him.

    • Michael Smith

      Scooter will be eligible for a QO but do you want to offer him one? The market for second basemen has been weak on the money side and he might just take the 18 million plus then you are stuck with that for a year.

    • Mark Moore

      That’s practically 2x is salary this year. It’s a hard pass for me since we’ve all seen how protracted the FA process is for younger “superstars”. If our FO offers it, He should take it in a hot minute. And if I’m the GM, there is no way on the banks of the Ohio I offer it.

  24. jim t

    Hey Scooter here is a thought. Your making 10mil this year. Quit running your mouth and Go out and have another good year and increase your value around the league. The Reds would be foolish to extend him at this time. They have a bunch of moving parts with Senzel, Trammel, Idia and Siri that could possibly be better, team controlled and much cheaper then signing you to a extension. You were picked up off the waiver wire and given a shot with playing time to improve your brand. You have accomplished that to a certain extent. The fact that no trade market exist for your services is telling. Take your money and thank the reds for the opportunity and market your services around the league.

  25. abado

    Salary comps this year:

    – DJ LeMahieu — 2yr/$24M
    – Eduardo Escobar — 3yr/$21M

    Both are about a year older than Gennett will be when he hits free agency and have somewhat similar production… Some other players to note:

    – Marwin Gonzalez (UTIL) — unsigned; Fangraphs had estimated 3yr/$30M
    – Jose Iglesias — unsigned; FG estimate: 3yr/$27M
    – Asrubel Cabrera — 1yr/$3.5M

    I’m not sure what Scooter is hoping for, but the market for infielders isn’t great. That could be an opportunity for the Reds and a reason not to negotiate an extension. Waiting until Scooter hits free agency would give the Reds more leverage if the market stays weak.

    I wouldn’t extend Scooter unless the terms tilted in the Reds favor. Something like 3yrs/$30M with the final year a team option for $12M. Scooter would probably be more unhappy to get an offer like that from the Reds than he is right now getting no offer at all.

  26. MK

    There is a reason Milwaukee released him and they seemed to have flourished without him. I would really like to see the Reds start Senzel at second, Peraza in center and Trahan at short. What they give up in offense they make up in defense. If you are spending on bringing in pitchers there needs to be a defense they feel comfortable pitching in front of.

    • abado

      You might be the only person calling for Trahan to make the team, let alone start. He would be like Billy Hamilton but worse all around.

      • Matthew Hendley

        I literally laughed at that suggestion as well, cause I thought it was a Joke, now I realize its not. That Idea is incredibly Dumb. MIL released scooter to make way for Villiar? one of the other many prospects at 2nd. A prospect, BTW that totally tanked upon arriving at the MLB and now went to BAL. Now MIL is trying to Square peg a round hole by sticking a 3rd baseman at 2nd. Perhaps if there had been a man? who could play second? Maybe they should try Yelich at second. Some people in this chat seem to think that he could do literally anything else.
        On a related note. Injury reasons aside, if Tehran is on the roster, Peraza better be traded, or dead. If he is starting, Peraza, Senzel, Suarez, Blandino, Jose Inglesias (who we will pick up and have start before Tehran starts in Cinci) ALL better be traded or injured.

    • Hanawi

      If going that route I’d rather see them sign Iglesias. Would be a huge defensive upgrade with a minimal offensive downgrade at SS. It’ll cost them more money though.

    • greenmtred

      Milwaukee released him because he wasn’t playing as well for them as he has for the Reds.

  27. matthew hendley

    The argument has been made on valuating players for their play vs. Free agency and paying a player what he is actually worth. Here are a couple player neutral ( not referring to scooter here) responses.

    1. Players are expecting to get PAID. Yes Capitals deliberate, at some point the players, who are not ignorant to the fact that owners are making exponentially much more money than they have in the past, expect a reasonable breakdown of the money that the fruits of their labor is producing. And yes it is the fruits of their labor. The reason that they are paid the league min. for 3 years is that when it is time for an individual to get paid, they have managed to stay in the league based on their skill alone. Arbitration, allows for an acceptable balance between ownership and paying a player for portions of their output. With the three levels, a FO can reasonably decide if a Player has effectively met the level to be ‘promoted’ pay wise so to speak, (Looking at Billy, as a balance that was acceptable until it wasn’t.) this is followed by a period where an individual who has qualified for FA indicates that they should be paid for the production and the profit that they can bring for that owner. (Whoever wins the BH sweepstakes, will benefit from more attention, ticket sales, concession sales, positive media, media deals etc. then the 29 losers.) Those that do not reach FA, or run into the DFA, or other road blocks usually end up taking the reduced deals or the minor’s deals that force them to produce for more money. A fair trade.
    2. The problem with this is tanking. With 30 teams with 25 roster spots available, all making the same full effort of winning there would be no issue in ensuring that everyone who had met the acceptable Service time and ability requirements were met. Manfrieds comments on the subject matter were pure BS. There are about a half dozen teams that have no interest in winning any games this year, another 10 or so that are suspect. Instead of taking efforts to correct it, high quality players still sit out on free agency, unclaimed, waiting. Sure there are disagreements, usually over years, guaranteed money, etc. Faithful negotiations would be able to correct most of them. Players who we don’t believe to be worth 25 Mil dollars when they are 38, probably were worth more than the 12 million they were paid when they were 28. Allowing the system to work itself out, so that argument is out as well. But here we sit, quality players sitting around while OAK owners are allowed to let its stadium continue to deteriorate. If you cant afford it don’t own it. A mid-season rebuild, a Shedding of contracts at the July Trade deadline for players that are FA at the end of the year, is one thing. The complete underselling of the future of a franchise, (totally looking at MIA here) is another.
    3. If there is no avenue to making significant money for significant contributions, players will go elsewhere, (again looking at OAK, at least lately). High school Athlete’s, who as a general rule dominate in multiple sports, change their attitudes on where they plan to go to as they move up in the system. This presents a much bigger threat than any manufactured ‘pace of play issues’ or rule changes like the DH. Presenting a team to lose is effectively Un-American.

  28. Still a Red

    First of all, we don’t know what Scooter is asking for other than an extension. Unless it was insulting to the Reds, I would have thought they would have countered with something OR, they are waiting to see how things shake out. The latter is reasonable, but they should at least respond in some way to Scooters proposal. I do think he has earned some serious consideration. If the Reds were to extend him for a reasonable time/$$, his trade value may even improve. Right now, I would bet on his performance as known than Puig’s…or any of our prospects other than Senzel…and even there the proof is in the pudding.