In perhaps even bigger news than the trade with the Dodgers, Reds President of Baseball Operations, Dick Williams just said in a press conference:

“We’re not done yet.”

“We still want to get better. Anywhere on the diamond is open for discussion. Pitching is still the biggest focus.”

Reds haven’t given up any of their top prospects and now have much greater roster depth from which to deal.

Stay tuned.

35 Responses

  1. Rut

    This is the key factor in judging the deal with the Dodgers. Nothing happens in a vacuum, but the next step here is more than just tangential.

    I just hope the Reds are smart enough to keep the prospects and pay for Keuchel rather than selling the farm.

    In other words, so long as they don’t trade Winker and keep Kemp it should be ok!

  2. Andy

    Makes me think Reds still chasing an ACE. The next deal needs to involve someone with a few years of control.

    I am really conflicted about the next move. The pitchers being shopped by Cleveland are better than Keuchel, and the dropoff is even bigger if we’re talking about any other free agent pitcher. Keuchel, however, doesn’t cost any prospects. I’ve been reading about Senzel, Trammel, and Greene for years now and can’t wait to see them in action. I know Greene is the highest risk but he also has the highest ceiling. I don’t know if I could deal with it if he is traded to the Indians and then turns into an MVP that dominates like peak Justin Verlander with the celebrity savvy/community involvement of Lebron James.

    I’m leaning toward springing the cash for Keuchel. I think if there was previously a concern from free agents that they would be on bottom-feeder Reds team, the other moves have fixed this. I think that Kluber would give the Reds a better chance at winning the World Series in next 1-2 years but the prospect loss would reduce the chances in the next 4 year period after that. I think that Keuchel will put the Reds soundly in NL central title race, and if they don’t trade prospects now they will have them available to get and ACE prior to trade deadline.

  3. Lifelong Reds fan

    If they trade Senzel and keep Gennett I’ll look for a new team

    • Jay

      Nothing like not even giving your team a chance. You should probably change your name if you feel this way.

      The trades we have made to date legit, make the Reds at least a winning team in my mind. Our offense alone is pretty darn impressive. Is our starting pitching scary good. No!!! but it definitely has been improved over the past 4 seasons.

      I can’t tell you enough how happy I am to be rid of Bailey’s Contract. (I said when they signed him to the huge deal that it was a giant mistake. I have only ever considered Bailey a #3 starter at best. Reds way overpaid for him.

      More deals or trades are coming right from Williams mouth. How about be happy we made progress toward a better team instead of saying your no longer a fan if they trade Senzel and Keep Gennet.

    • Michael E

      I, and I am in the minority, am not at all against trading Senzel. We’ve seen hyped prospects never quite make it to their potential and this vertigo is no small thing. Add in other minor injuries and Senzel has the making of a annual part-time tease. I would love to keep him, but if it got us a REAL ace with a couple of years of control, I’d consider it.

      Personally, I’d probably trade Greene before the two bats, just because of the fickleness of running the minor league gauntlet as a pitcher. The upside to Greene is a new pitching coach and seemingly a new organization-wide approach is forth-coming. This might turn a few like Reed, Stephenson, Mahle and younger A ball types into much better pitchers post-haste.

      That said, I am NOT against trading any of the “big 3” if it nets us an ace. A package of more lower prospects is preferred, but I won’t be upset if were leaps better the next 2 or 3 years over WAITING for possible potential to bloom (and maybe never happen).

  4. Kap

    People seem mad that they traded jeter downs. Solid prospect but…

    1. More than likely a 2nd basemen in the majors while being buried behind scooter, senzel, long, and india in the organizational dpeth chart
    2. The #Reds still have a top 10 minor league system even without downs
    3. The #Reds still have a 3 top 50 picks in the 2019 draft.

    Cool it. ?

    • Hanawi

      I hate losing Gray way more than Downs. Reds are very light on solid SP prospects in the minors.

      • Jay

        Gray is only in Single A I believe. This guy was probably 4 years away still. It will be ok I promise.

        Oh by the way we have a pretty good pick in this years draft still.

      • Joe Farfsing

        Gray pitched entirely in Rookie League. Considering their track record on developing pitching I’m ok with his inclusion

      • Michael E

        …and he was OLD (relatively) for rookie ball. So good chance he moves up to A ball and gets beat around in 2019. He has a solid fastball, but so do 100 other pitching prospects these days. The chance he makes it up to MLB regular that is average or better is VERY slim indeed. I am not the least bit worried about Downs or Grey. Maybe they remind us in 6 or 7 years of what we could have had, but don’t hold your breath.

    • Michael E

      Losing them didn’t have me bat an eye. The top 25 prospect list, the chances more than 4 or 5 are even remembered in 10 years is VERY low. So keep that in mind when bemoaning a #7 or a #15 or whatever.

      Go look at a Reds top 25 prospect list from 15 or 20 years ago and prepare to laugh.

      • Joe from Cincinnati

        Just a casual reminder that, in 2015, the Reds top 15 prospects included:
        3. Robert Stephenson
        4. Amir Garrett
        8. Rookie Davis
        9. Eric Jagielo
        10. Nick Travieso
        12. Blade Trahan

        Each player below Garrett was given a rating of 50 on (Stephenson and Garrett were rated at 55).

        Jeter Downs is currently rated as a 50, as is Josiah Gray.

        They are good prospects with tools that, if developed properly, would allow them to be future major leaguers.

        But they are not “special” prospects in any way. They have good and bad aspects and are very far from the Majors.

        If we had traded Garrett or Stephenson (or any other above prospects) back in 2015 in a trade like this, there’d probably be a similar uproar but now, 3 years later, we really don’t care about any of those players and would be happy to offload them for anything of value, right?

        Prospects are just that. Prospects. There’s literally hundreds of them. The percentage that work out are very small regardless of their ratings and rankings. It’s often best to flip them for value when you can, before they lose that “prospect promise.”

        Obviously, many prospects will eventually become major leaguers, but mourning ‘A’ ball prospects that weren’t even part of this organization a year or two ago is an emotional response rather than a logical one.

        I’m glad this front office appears to be no longer making emotional decisions.

  5. Hanawi

    See lots of Twitter chatter that this deal may open up the Dodgers to make a deal for Kluber instead.

  6. Fish

    Not really a fan of greys inclusion in the deal. I am really afraid the reds are going to do something stupid and overpay for kluber. Reading various places they want Senzel AND trammell. Honestly hard pass on the deal as they’re not likely to really compete until 2021. This deal doesn’t help them be a playoff team in 2019 or 2021.

    • Michael E

      No, no rumor has them wanting Senzel and Trammel. The rumors simply mention they’d like a Senzel/Trammel type as the head-liner. There are posters that immediately say ” no way, not Senzel and Trammel!” but not the analysts or reporters, just the knee-jerk posters on these various sites.

      The Reds would never trade 2 of the top 3 UNLESS they got back a top 3 type they wanted as well.

    • Joe Farfsing

      You don’t have to agree with me. However, I’ll base my judgement on subjective, thoughtful, statistical based analysis. You can base yours on biased, anecdotal, whatever analysis.

    • Michael E

      WV, disagree, they DID pass the Pirates, are even with the Cards and just a short step from Brewers and Cubs. If they get an ACE, they are right in the thick of the NL central race…for the division, not just wild card.

      They subtracted BHam and replaced with much better bat, regardless of whether its Puig or Kemp. I hope Puig gets the most ABs, with Kemp, Winker and Schebler about equal. There are always injuries too.

      We really upgraded the rotation with Roark and Wood, which pushed the SP3/4/5 types down two spots making them adequate now in their roles. Even now, without an ace added, this is a team that can certainly muster a winning record and potentially more if Puig has career year and the new PC gets a couple of young guys to reach some new level of acceptability, through a new pitch or better delivery or more use of breaking balls, etc.

      There are no holes in the current lineup hitting wise, with Barnhart the lowest denominator. He is probably about average hitter for a catcher.

      Pitching, we’re nearing an average rotation with a good bullpen.

      Sorry, what exactly do the Brewers, Cubs, Cards or Pirates have right now that the Reds don’t? I am serious. Neither the Brewers or the Cubs have good pitching. Solid yes, Brewers have a good BP, mediocre rotation. Cubs, about the same. Lineups, were on par with any lineup in the Central and may have the most runs scored when 2019 ends. I’d give the Brewers a leg up with Cubs possibly outscoring the Reds IF both Rizzo and Bryant meet expectations (not happening the past two years).

      Explain how the notion of Reds contending or nearing contention is “comical”?

  7. Goat

    This is an excellent move for the Reds . This is just the beginning of what else is to come. After seeing the rumor a while back I thought it would happen. The money is basically a wash with the Reds actually having players who can contribute, unlike Bailey.
    I see a Kluber trade or a Keuchel signing, along with some bullpen help By the time spring arrives we will have a roster that will be able to contend. If things go south prior to the all star break then we can trade these assets for other prospects. It’s a win win situation. I hope they lock up Wood to a long term deal because he is highly underrated and is just now in his prime.
    I still have a strong feeling Scooter will be traded while giving the Refs an opportunity to play Senzel every day.
    After they get one of the premier starters I think they will go after a middle reliever along with a low dollar outfielder who can contribute at center field. Just my opinion

    • Jay

      We are on the same page on what needs to happen the rest of the off season. #1 starter, nice bullpen piece. The only thing I’m not sure on is if Gennet gets traded or not.

  8. Tom

    When the rumors of Bailey to LA for Puig, et al, started during the winter meetings, it was all doom and gloom about what we’d give up. We didn’t give up much in the near term and potentially in the long term. What we did get is a nice set of one and done trade chips. Of course, one and done might all play like a $100m contract depends on it (it does) and, if so, that’s some serious production out of this group.

    Basically, we have Gennett, Puig, Wood, Kemp, and Roark as trade chips without sacrificing the long term success of the team. We also have some under developed starting pitchers some team might want to take a chance on.

    I like we’re at at the moment but not satisfied. It’s very cool to see how this is coming together.

  9. Mason Red

    Instead of Christmas turkey I will be dining on crow instead. The Reds actually made a splash with more to come. Well done.

  10. CFD3000

    Two thoughts on “We’re not done yet.” 1) This is a lot of one and done players now, but of all those new faces it’s Wood that I hope the Reds focus on signing to an extension. And 2) I don’t care if they buy a top starter (Keuchel) or trade for one with these new chips, but if it’s a trade they still need to hang on to at least four of their top five prospects (and all of them named Senzel).

  11. scottya

    I would like to see the Reds build a trade around Winker, Iglesias or Barnhart to acquire Kluber or Robbie Ray as long as none of Senzel, Trammell, Greene or India are included.

    If we trade Barnhart, I’d like to see us sign either Wieters or Lucroy. And if we trade iglesias there are numerous closers that we could sign for around 10-12 million AV

    This team should be able to score a ton of runs and the overall pitching staff era is not far from 4.00, add a #1 starter and this becomes a playoff contending team.

    Starter ERA: 3.9 ish starting rotation era and bullpen is around 3.8ish
    1. Robbie Ray 3.72 (3.66+ 3.78) + 6 million
    2. Wood 3.54 (3.45+3.63) +9.0 million
    3. Castillo 3.99 (3.97+4.01)
    4. Desclafani 4.33 (4.35+4.31)
    5. Reed 4.35 (4.35+4.35)
    6. Roark 4.36 (4.56+4.15) +9.8 million

    More to come! I’m excited.

  12. Rut

    I’d love to see the Reds dig deep and try to get Greinke for Robt Stevenson and change.

    I get the no trade issue, but seems to me Reds could get him to bite if they paid the deferred salary on time. And Dbacks willing to eat some of that salary, question is how much.

    I mean what would Greinke be worth on FA market? More than the 3 yrs/$80 some i think Reds would have to pay (contract has $104 remaining, but Reds would reasonably need $20+ to offset). Fwiw, if he were a true FA, I have to think he would get better paid than Keuchel. Add to that the fact that the cost in prospects would be minimal and I can’t see a better option for the team on the field (but clearly not happening with Bob’s payroll limits).

  13. Scott C

    Those yelling for the FO to do something ought to be pleased. This trade does make a stinger on the field for 2019, but that is it. Not strong enough to really contend but stronger. I am glad that we held on to the top three prospects, Still giving up both Downs and Gray is a pretty steep price for three 1 and dones. I really would have thought one and a lesser prospect would have done it. I certainly hope we are not done yet.

    • Jay

      Your forgetting we got the Catcher also and 7 million. Plus they took a huge headache away from the Reds in Homer Bailey. Bailey might get a minor league deal somewhere if someone is willing to give him a chance but I really feel he is done.

    • B

      Do you get more at deadline for bailey or Puig, wood, kemp? It’s that simple.

      You can’t compare Martinez because the tigers gm made a huge mistake that offseason publicly saying he was trading everyone so offers were pennies on the dollar. Plus Martinez had publicly turned down a huge offer from the tigers so teams knew it was a short term rental. Plus it’s all about who your trading with the reds got more for alfredo Simon than the tigers got for Martinez. If I remember right the tigers traded Martinez early instead of making teams sweat it out up to the deadline.

      Regardless of return this trade opens door for either more trades or composition picks. Bailey gave us neither and both downs and gray were comp picks. Don’t see any downside just look at the added flexibility.

      Reds now have 7 players with one year of control. If the reds don’t compete and don’t trade any now (I believe they will but let’s pretend) that’s 4-7 more trades at the deadline. You at the very least can replace all the prospects you lost and likely upgrade. Plus tons of cash in 2020 available for FA.

      It’s a shrewd move that adds flexibility and assets. You have to admit that regardless of if you think this makes them better.

      People complain to complain though.

  14. Michael E

    Kluber would make the Reds instance NL contenders, central contenders and wild-card. Not saying we’d be favorites, but an improved hitting lineup, a complete rotation turnover with a new SP1, SP2 and SP3, yeah, this would be a true contender. 5 of 16 teams make the playoffs, and it would not be hard to see the Reds making it with a Kluber (or another SP1 or SP2+ type).

  15. Mark Elliott

    Puig and prospect (and cash?) to the Indians for Kluber?
    Kemp and cash (and a prospect) to an AL team for a starter? Not sure the Indians want him.

  16. Streamer88

    I think by “not done” they mean adding, not trading acquired assets. I’m giving the dodgers some credit here — if they could get more for Puig then I presume they would’ve done it.

    Rather, I think “not done” mean two main things:

    2B decision
    Top flight pitcher

    They could trade Gennett to recoup minor league depth or in package to get sonny gray (I dislike either, Scooter crushes RH pitching).

    They could sign Dallas and trade Schebler to de-crowd OF and make Senzel a more permanent OF.

  17. Gonzo Reds

    Steve… are you taking down your Homer Bailey icon now that he’s no longer a Red?