21 Responses

  1. Jonathan

    This has to be an April Fools joke…right? 🙁

  2. Capt. Phreddie Pizazz

    I understand that arm injuries are not a new phenomenon, but have any of the precautionary measures (i.e. inning limits, pitch counts) taken in the last 10-15 years amounted to a hill of beans? Or is it just baseball voodoo to make everyone feel like they’re doing something positive. It just seems like every good-promising pitcher nowadays ultimately requires Tommy John surgery. How did the all-time great power pitchers of yesteryear make it through their careers throwing 8-9 innings per game, 300 innings per year?

    • Ghettotrout1

      There is actually a really good book out about this from Jeff Passan called The Arm. But basically no is the answer to your question. No one can really give a true answer on why TJ happens.

    • SF Reds Fan

      They also through 10 miles per hour slower than today…

    • Michael Smith

      For everyone of those guys you have a dozen whose arm fell off.

    • Davy13

      1. Most of the all-time great power pitchers of the past would not be as powerful today, Nolan Ryan, Bob Feller excluded.

      2. Before Tommy John’s surgery, most pitchers’ career were over period.

    • Michael E

      No change today from 50 or 80 years ago. The only way to eliminate injuries is a 0 pitch count or 0 innings pitched limit. Otherwise injuries will occur. I still believe stamina is the biggest key. If the body is prepared to throw 125 or 150 pitches in the heat of summer and cool of fall, the less likely an injury at pitch 80.

      The fact starters can’t go 100 pitches or 6 innings regularly, and many RPs coming out throwing high 90s, are both factors in more injuries. We may have less careers ending now, but that is due to modern surgery, medicine and rehab.

      I may be wrong, but if I were manager, I’d find pitchers that wanted to complete games and a pitching coach that stresses NOT over-throwing all game long. I also am not a proponent of throwing between starts. Give the arm complete rest for the 3 days off and run a 4 man rotation with maybe a 5th starter once a month to combine with a day off that gives the 4 starters 5 days off every month. As I said, maybe I’d be wrong, but I doubt the results would be worse and since EVERY team is going RP heavy, it is definitely time to thing SP heavy and roll back in that direction.

      • Dewey Roberts

        I totally agree with you on every count.

  3. kmartin

    First Senzel and now this. Incredible. Oh, I forgot Winker.

  4. Dewey Roberts

    Maybe Hunter Greene will be a great pitcher for the Reds some day, but I am not as impressed as most are. His minor league numbers are not very good. I remember Gary Nolan as an 18 year ole major league pitcher who went 14-8 in his first season. I remember Don Gullett as a 19-20 year old major league pitcher. I just don’t see the same talent with Hunter Greene, other than he throws very fast. Now I am very sorry he has a ulnar ligament strain and I hope he recovers. But I will wait until he actually gets to the majors before I start celebrating what he is going to do there. Until then, he is a talented minor league pitcher who is struggling with winning games and his ERA.

      • Dewey Roberts

        Nope, just old enough to remember how great Gary Nolan and Don Gullett were. We can talk about Greene’s greatness after he goes 14-8 in his first season in the majors. Greene, at this point, is just a minor league pitcher with an arm injury. My only concern is that the Reds spent a first round pick on him when the smarter move would have been to get a great position player prospect.

        The snickers bars need to go to those who are acting like the world is ending if this injury derails his career.

    • Dewey Roberts

      Bill, that rubs both ways. If Hunter Greene had been around in the 1970’s, I doubt that he would be throwing over 100 mph. So Greene would have drastically different results also. Players can only be judged against their own peers and eras. The point is that Nolan and Gullett were both much better against their peers at the same age. See how that works.
      At this point, Greene has proved nothing. It is major league records that count for most fans.

      • Dewey Roberts

        See how this works, Bill. How many 18 year old pitchers have ever won 14 games or more in their rookie season in the majors? Get back to me when you have the answer. You probably are not old enough to remember Nolan or Gullett. And, by the way, both were doing well in the MAJORS at 18-19 against players older than them—not against their peers in the low minors. Once again, see how that works. And I don’t think a losing record and a high earned run average indicates a pitcher is doing well. I will be impressed when Greene does something noteworthy in the majors. At this point, I am not holding my breath until Greene becomes the greatest ever Reds pitcher. It would not surprise me if he wins less than 50 games in the majors—if he ever gets there.

      • Dewey Roberts

        Once again, Nolan and Gullett were 18-19 in the majors and doing great against players older than them.

      • Dewey Roberts

        Because I am not impressed with Green just YET, you think I am jealous of how much he makes. WOW! I am the least materialistic person you could ever know and money is immaterial to me. I don’t know how much Greene makes and I don’t care.

        Methinks you have a man crush on Greene. Wake me up when he actually wins a game in the majors. Until then he is just a prospect who may never do much. I remember when Homer Bailey was predicted to be the #1 starter for the Reds at the same point in his minor league career.

        I prefer performance in the majors over hype.

        Just admit it—you wish you were Hunter Greene.

        I will be all in with Hunter Greene if and when he actually produces as a front line starter in the majors. Until then, I don’t get carried away with hype and fastball speed.

        Once again, the fact that almost no 18-19 year old pitchers are in the majors today only makes my case about Nolan and Gullett. I take it you are not very good at logical reasoning.

  5. Jeff Reed

    Unfortunate for sure, but it may be an indicator that Hunter Greene will be the Red’s shortstop of the future.

    • Jeff Reed

      My mistake. That’s good to know. Nothing definite; it was only an indicator.

      • Jeff Reed

        Should have said ‘could be’ not ‘will be’.

  6. Dewey Roberts

    That is why I haven’t joined the Hunter Greene club just yet. I feared he would have an arm injury. I will get excited about him only when he starts winning in the majors.

  7. Dewey Roberts

    Gary Nolan blew his arm out in scoring training after his rookie year by trying to give max effort on every pitch. Greene throwing 19 pitches over 100 mph during the Futures game did not excite me. It concerned me. It worried me.