The Nationals swept the Reds to open the season. Since then, the Nats have won just three more games than the Reds and have a losing record. On Opening Day, Max Schurzer (6 IP, 0 ER) out-dueled Homer Bailey (6 IP, 1 ER). Tonight was a continuation of that dominance.

The Reds have now lost three in a row and are 5-8 since the All-Star break. They play three more games this weekend in Washington.

If you blinked, say sometime around the trade deadline, you might have missed the Reds Winning Culture. 

Cincinnati Reds 4 (48-61) • Washington Nationals 10 (55-53)

Box Score || Win % || Statcast Hitters Report || Statcast Pitchers Report

Tyler Mahle turned in another poor start. After a 1-2-3 first inning, he gave up six runs in a 36-pitch second, which he didn’t finish. The Reds are using a 6-man rotation, so you’d think they’d be watching closely for opportunities to remedy that. Mahle seems due for a trip to Louisville. He’s only 23 years old and made fewer than 10 starts at the AAA level. Nothing wrong with taking a little pressure off and refreshing his fundamentals. Mahle was more than solid through the month of June and still is promising.

Even with a Mahle demotion, as long as Matt Harvey makes every fifth start, there’s no room for the Reds to give Robert Stephenson or Cody Reed opportunity. Innings limits aren’t going to force the club’s hand with Luis Castillo or Sal Romano. Neither is on pace to eclipse their total IP last year by more than 20 innings. That’s the opportunity cost associated with Harvey.

Keury Mella relieved Mahle with bases loaded in the 2nd inning. Mella was called up to the Reds last Friday and hadn’t pitched yet. He was San Francisco’s #1 pitching prospect when the Reds sent Mike Leake to the Giants. Mella was the headliner of that trade, but the Reds also picked up Adam Duvall. Tonight, Mella walked the first batter he faced, forcing in a run. But then he pitched pretty well. He completed 4.1 innings giving up just one run. He did walk four and struck out two.

Raisel Iglesias came on to pitch the bottom of the 8th with the Reds trailing by 5 runs because he needed the work. He gave up two homers and three runs. Always, always be trading closers.

Eugenio Suarez blasted his 25th homer in the 4th inning with Scooter Gennett on base, accounting for the Reds first two runs. In the 5th inning the Two Tuckersâ„¢ were on base with two outs, but manager Jim Riggleman decided to let Mella bat instead of pinch hitting. Mella struck out against Schurzer. Newly acquired Preston Tucker lined a Schurzer fastball into the right-center gap, prompting Chris Welsh to say Tucker “looks like he can hit a fastball.” 

Jose Peraza’s slump continued. He was batting .208/.255/.313 since the All Star break. He was 1-for-5 tonight, with a 2-run double in the 9th. Throw in a dropped foul pop-up, a bounced throw to first base, short range and consecutive games where second base has gone uncovered on a stolen base attempt (those could be Scooter Gennett’s fault), and I’m moving Peraza back into the “not quite proven himself” category. Not saying anything near give up on him. He had a strong first half of the year. But in my mind, he’s also not a proven major league shortstop yet. Continued watching required.

Riggleman Returns to DC Washington D.C. is where Jim Riggleman grew up, delivered the newspaper, caddied at the country club and walked out in the middle of the season on his team and big league manager’s job over money. 

Suarez Blows Hat tip to our Wes Jenkins for spotting and correctly grading this terrific article about Eugenio Suarez by Jared Diamond:

It contains multitudes:

  1. The phrase “sticky pink wads” in the second paragraph,
  2. A public health message – kids, chew sugar-free gum, 
  3. An interview with a Guinness World Record holder from Alabama, and
  4. Finally a clear explanation of BABIP (beard absent bubble if popped). 

India Back In Lineup Jonathan India, the Reds #1 pick in the most recent amateur baseball draft, was back in the starting lineup for the Dayton Dragons tonight. India was batting third and playing 3B. He was held out of yesterday’s game with a contusion (“boo-boo” is the technical term) on his right hand after being hit with a line drive (Doug Gray reporting). India was promoted to the Dragons on Monday. He was hitting .267/.443/.483 for three Reds affiliates going into tonight’s game. India singled and walked tonight.

Cody Reed Sparkles LHP Cody Reed came within an out of a complete game shutout for AAA Louisville. Reed gave up just four hits (two of those in the 9th inning), walked one and struck out 10. A lot of attention has rightly been put on it being time for Stephenson to get a shot at starting. Reed’s in line, too. In Reed’s previous two games he’d struck out 16 and walked just one. 

Back When E.D. Meant #44 Fabulous video of Eric Davis getting good wood on the ball for a walk-off homer and reaching the 30/30 milestone (on August 2!):

[Header Photo Credit: Kareem Elgazzar, Cincinnati Enquirer]

94 Responses

  1. Sliotar

    “Reds WInning Culture” should already be confirmed as the title of the 2018 team highlights video.

    A similar oldie but goodie, as told to “Doc” by You Know Who when the team was 3-18….

    “If we’re not going to play better than .500 baseball from now on, to me that would be a disaster.’’

    45-43 since then, 3 more with Nationals, Dodgers coming to town later with Manny Machado and Brian Dozier just added, etc. etc.

    Glad the #Rebuild is already finished, otherwise I might get concerned about this team really bottoming out before season’s end.

    (Seriously great recap, Steve. A lot of everything, but especially an Eric Davis reference. Seeing that HR highlight was best part of the whole broadcast. What a swing.)

    • Jim Walker

      Yes on pouring out the effort for such a good recap of such a poor game.

  2. Sliotar

    Question for the mob here…

    Does Billy Hamilton have a green light to steal at any time?

    If he doesn’t, why did he take off on an 0-2 pitch, with 2 outs, on 1st….down 5 runs?

  3. Seat101

    Great recapitalization! I wish someone would ask the interim manager why our defense is looking so shabby.

    I haven’t Mr. Stephenson stays in AAA until he shows he striking out more batters than he walks over several starts Let him learn how to do that in the minors, not majors.

    It’s time to give Jose Peraza some “rest”. He needs to see that he had to keep EARNING his job and we need to see how whomever his replacement Can do.

    • Hotto4Votto

      Stephenson has a 10.3 K/9 and a 4.5 BB/9 on the year. So it seems like he’s learned it. In fact he’s struck guys out at over 2x the rate he’s walking guys.

      • lwblogger2

        And his numbers over his last several starts are even better.

  4. WVRedlegs

    Riggleman’s post game interview doesn’t bode well for Mahle. “Sure there is cause for concern. Nick and Walt are here and we’ll sure discuss things. We’ll see.”
    There will be a roster move tomorrow. No doubt about that. Losing Winker, Schebler, and Duvall has made this offense very tame.
    Second game in a row Gennett and Peraza fail to cover 2B on a steal. This time on a pitch out. Barnhart had to be seething. Something has to give here. Totally unacceptable.

    • Steve Mancuso

      The ongoing involvement of Walt Jocketty is a huge concern. While I liked the Duvall trade, the Reds behaved like a team without a clear direction at the deadline. Maybe the front office is being pulled in opposite ways. Paralysis is the result.

      • Seat101

        Paralysis by analysis may be the problem.

      • Colorado Red

        I think you hit the nail on the head.

      • lwblogger2

        As I’ve said many times, I believe that Walt Jocketty still has WAY more influence than he should. He seems very involved in the team’s day-to-day baseball operations. The Reds will really struggle to field a competetive team until they eliminate all the background chatter and have a clear-cut direction, that is primarily driven by analytic analysis of large data sets. Sure, there is still lots of room for “traditional” baseball types like Jocketty, I mean I’m still pretty old-school when compared to you and several others on this site; but they should be there to evaluate tools and intangibles, not make day-to-day decisions.

    • Jim Walker

      Walt’s “here” more often than when he was officially in charge!

    • Jim Walker

      I’m wondering if what we are seeing now on the field is partially fallout from the team has been through since the ASB. Maybe these guys as a group had convinced theirselves they had the makings of an historic run in them. Then being swept by the Pirates, not having Schebler, learning Winker was gone for the season capped by the Duvall trade, burst the bubble once and for all.

      If so, Riggleman really gets to earn his salary and prove he should be back in 2019.

      • Sliotar

        I think you are on to something. The emotion, the “fire” just has not been there during games as with the run. And the TOOTBLANs and misplays seem to be getting worse as reality of another 90-loss season is setting in.

        The other part is…sarcastic as I am about the #Rebuild being “done”….the Reds really haven’t closed the gap on the Nationals, Dodgers and Cubs/Brewers. That 4-game sweep in LA was such an outlier.

        Last year’s scores vs Washington

        6-5 L
        18-3 L
        6-2 L
        5-0 L
        10-7 L
        14-4 L
        6-1 L

        This year vs Washington

        2-0 L
        13-7 L
        6-5 L
        10-4 L

        You mentioned you were a tech guy. Tonight’s game was “a feature not a bug” of how the Reds are not in the same zip code as the contenders and IMO, still have a long way to go.

      • Jim Walker

        so who was it that called a bug a feature until they fixed it? I recall that happening but forget who. We used to joke about that being the case with some of the network equipment we installed and maintained; but, I’m thinking somebody in the consumer realm was the original that got that started.

      • greenmtred

        Ugly game, and I saw just a little of it. Scherzer looks terrific. Since the All-Star break is a SSS, to my mind, and not having Winker and Schebler obviously hurts and is a factor, as are the sloppy defense and baserunning, but we should remember that 3 of those 5 wins were against the first-place Phillies,and also that we are now seeing young and untested players in the outfield, which is what we wanted, after all. We’re also seeing young pitchers–Romano and Mahle–who are either gassed or need to work on stuff and are getting hammered by opposing hitters. I’m not even thinking of jumping off of a bridge just yet.

      • greenmtred

        I meant to add that, since so many of you apparently are thinking of jumping off of bridges, I’ll miss you and your invigorating pessimism.

      • doofus

        It’s not pessimism, it’s Vigilance!

      • sezwhom

        Tough for Riggleman to “earn his salary” when his SS & 2B forget to cover 2nd on a pitch out. Not the first time this week either. Ask Casali.

    • lwblogger2

      By a lot of opinions expressed around these parts, Winker, Schebler & Duvall should have been the starting OF for this team. They are all out.

  5. Jeff

    That video brings back some great memories. My family was at that August 2, 1987 game sitting in the left field green seats. It was so hot. I think it was in the mid to upper 90’s. When Davis came up, my Mom said, “Eric’s due. He hasn’t done much today. He’s going to win this right now.”

    Off the bat, the trajectory of that dinger was so high, my 13 year old self thought it was a pop out, but it just kept carrying. I ended up turning and watching it hit off of the facing of the upper deck behind us. Just a tremendous jack. Absolutely my favorite Riverfront memory.

    • Steve Mancuso

      Fantastic. Thanks for sharing your memory.

  6. Mike Kelsch

    Somebody please tow Walt’s boat out to international waters.

  7. Jeff Reed

    There was a lot of hope for Mahle before this season began. The result has been disappointing. Except for Homer Bailey’s recent performances, the inconsistency of the Reds starting pitching is obvious. Unless a couple proven pitchers are brought in during the offseason, it looks to me the Reds will not be contending for at least two to three years down the road. But somehow Stevenson and Reed should be vetted these last two months of the season to see if they can get it done at the ML level. Putting hope on prospective starting pitchers is wearing thin.

  8. Kap

    I will start to take notice when Stephenson and reed start putting together good starts in Cincinnati. I’m not impressed with what they do in triple A. With the said, bring am up so they can walk 5 batters every game they pitch

    • Indy Red Man

      They have to be allowed to pitch for the Reds for that to happen?

      I’m not saying BobSteve will be much better then these other guys, but 3.30 over the 2nd half last year is pretty impressive! Romano and Mahle have nothing remotely like that to counter with.

      • Jim Walker

        How about one I haven’t read for quite a while around here, “Why do they expect a different result when they keep sending the same guys out there?”

        Romano’s FIP is right at run worse than last year; and last year’s was borderline. So are they hoping he will reverse his regression and make it back to mediocre?

        This is Mahle’s baseline year. The world is full of guys who looked legit in AAA and couldn’t make the jump. I hope that isn’t and don’t think it is the case with him; but, he needs to go back to AAA and figure some things out because what he is doing now isn’t working; and what he was doing earlier was, like Romano, more flashing moments of promise more than actually achieving results.

      • da bear

        From what I saw in the game today Mahle only gave up hard contact on the sacrifice fly that Billy caught near the wall. The cheap hit to Scherzer hurt badly, as did the walks after he was worn down by numerous foul balls. Two of the grounders made it up the middle after four or five bounces. Appears to be a combination of bad defensive positioning, bad luck, and very limited defensive range of Peraza and Scooter. Let alone the pitchout where Peraza/Gennett once again failed to cover the bag, and Peraza failing to catch the popup.

        And Barnhart taking a poor position to catch the throw at the plate that bounced off the runner; had he been out in front it may have resulted in an out at the plate.

        Best to give Mahle the space needed to work on his off speed stuff. He’s got the fastball as a base to be a part of the next great rotation. Time for reds to give Reed and Bob Steve a chance to transfer their success to the big league level.

      • Reaganspad

        Mahle needs a 3rd pitch

        Mahle needs time in AAA now to become a finished product

        Lots of action on 2 strike pitches, including the one to Max

      • greenmtred

        They aren’t running the same guys out there: They’re not running out Winker, Schebler, or Duvall. I know that you mean pitchers, Jim, but Romano and Mahle are two of the young guys who, by consensus, we believe should be given a chance to show what they have at the MLB level. Mahle was pretty good early in the season, and Romano has had a few good performances lately, but they–and the Reds–should now have a better idea of what they are and what they need to work on than they had going into the year. I agree that Stephenson and Reed need the opportunity to start for the Reds, but that will amount to more sorting which probably will result in more ugly games, here and there, and then we’ll all get morose and negative.

      • Jim Walker

        Below is the link to Mahle’s game log for the entire season. From the 1st of June through July 6, he did seem to find a groove. 5 of those 7 starts were strong. 2 were mediocre. However he was shaky (wildly inconsistent) right up till then; and, his last 4 starts have been brutal.

        4GS; 10.2IP; 20ER; 5HR; 9BB; 8K; 16.88ERA/10.58FIP

        There is nothing vaguely redeeming in any of those numbers. A team cannot afford to keep sending a starter to the mound who can’t complete even 3 innings a start if for no other reason than due to the disruption it causes to the pen and ripple effect of how the manager has to handle other starters.

        I think there is a very good chance even a veteran would be held back a start or 2 based on this sequence of starts to evaluate what was going on with him. Mahle is a 23 year old who figures large in their future plans. I’d think most certainly, they’ll make some sort of move with him.

  9. Jim Walker

    For me a big point about the latest effort by both Reed and Stephenson is that they both went deep in tight games. As noted, tonight Reed went 8.2 innings in a 2-1 game won by the Bats. The game was scoreless until the Bats scored a single run in the 6th followed by their other run in the 9th. The run scored against Reed also came in the 9th. Reed has thrown 16 innings in his last 2 starts.

    In RS’s last outing he pitched 7 innings leaving with the score tied at 2. The scored was tied over the last 4 innings he pitched with him retiring 12 straight from the last 2nd out of the third inning through the 1st out of the 7th. The Bats eventually were victorious in extra innings. RS has gone 7 full innings in three consecutive starts.

    Tyler Mahle has pitched 2.2 innings in his last 2 starts and 8.1 innings in his last 3 starts.

  10. Michael E

    Does Jocketty have a brother over in Baltimore? Did anyone notice they went for “quantity over quality” in nearly every trade? They sent Machado and a good RP or two and Schoop and Guasman and got ONE top tier prospect. Only one more that might slot into their top 12 and rest a bunch of “not likely to contribute at MLB level” fliers.

    In summary, it could be worse, we could be Orioles fans.

    I won’t forget the lack of capitalizing on PRIME sell high pieces. Not trading Hughes, Hernandez or Iglesias is a sin. We should now have two new additions to our top 5 prospect list and two more just outside the top 10 at the very least. We should also have a top 5 farm system that is brimming with high tier upside.

    Instead, nothing changed, our GM and FO are stuck in the middle, not wanting to really rebuild and no where closer to contending. Barring a surprising outlay in FA spending for SP1 and SP2, we won’t be contending in 2019 and we’re no better now than we were last year at this time.

    Opportunity lost, while the reset of our division seems to constantly make nice upgrades. Yes, maybe they won’t look so good in a couple of years, but they’re ALL leaving the Reds WAY behind in the dust. Sigh. Thank goodness for fantasy baseball and football to give me SOMETHING entertaining during the hot, boring Reds days of summer.

    We had an ace for all of maybe one season with Cueto (he had injuries and ups and downs) and before that…Rijo? Maybe Harnisch one season or Shourek? In my lifetime, the Reds rotations has been abysmal nearly 50% of the seasons (I am 46), close to or just below average another 30% and above average the other 20%. In a word, pathetic. In 2018, pathetic. In 2019, pathetic, barring Castellini giving up those 10s of millions of profits he is pocketing and signing on for a big payroll increase, OR a GM surprising us with a big trade that only parts with maybe one top 5 prospect and a handful of lesser prospects for a true ACE.

    Where is Jimmy Haynes when you need him?

    • Mason Red

      I’m 56 and the Reds have never been very good at drafting and or developing starting pitchers in my lifetime. That’s why I have zero faith in the continued idea by many to trade for pitching prospects. When the Reds have been successful part of the reason for the success was they went out and got established starters. I’m not upset they didn’t make a big splash at the trade deadline. I’m hoping for some big things during the offseason.

      • Colorado Red

        I am there with you on this one. (1 year older).
        The only really top line starter I can think of developed by the Reds are Cueto and don gullett.

      • doofus

        Jim Maloney, Gary Nolan, Tom Browning, but yeah, there have been few.

      • sezwhom

        Mason, I agree with you. Been a fan for nearly as long. The recent list is woefully short and the entire list isn’t that long either.

    • Colorado Red

      No a whole lot of top prospects sent anywhere this trade deadline.
      it seems just do not want to trade the top guys.
      Not sure if that is just this year, or a trend.
      But yes, you are still correct.

      • lost11found

        This echo’s my thought as well. If the O’s didn’t get top flight talent for those players, why should we expect to get top talent for our roster? I’m not saying the FO didn’t try, but maybe they said ‘no’ where the O’s FO said ‘yes’.

        If DW had taken poor returns on good talent, he’d be getting roasted on here the rest of the season, perhaps rightfully so.

        Without knowing what they said ‘no’ to for Harvey, Hughes, Hernandez, Iglasias, and Gennet, I have a hard time getting really worked up about it.

      • Jim Walker

        My only disagreement here is over Harvey. He had to be moved to open opportunities for the guys at AAA. Stephenson and Reed will not be optionable next spring. They have to make the 25 man roster, be exposed to waivers or traded. The situation is complicated by the fact Romano will be in the same situation IF they burn his option this year which may be part of the reason he hasn’t been taken out of the rotation.

        The message sent by keeping Harvey thus was that 2 months of him or getting “something more” for him was more important to the future of the organization than either Robert Stephenson, Cody Reed or Matt Wisler, one of the new guys from the Duvall trade, who also appears to be on his final option year.

      • old-school

        Dick Williams gave an interview Tuesday night on Lance McCalister’s radio show. You can access the pod cast I think.

        Paraphrasing, he was very specific in saying that keeping Matt Harvey in no way diminished the plan for RS. They know what Stephenson can do and he is working on things at AAA and will pitch this season at the MLB level. HE was also clear that the plan all along was to give Mahle/Romano/Castillo consistent experience at the MLB level so they can pitch in a sustained way. He also said they view Sims as a SP and he has an option next year. He generalized that Spring training will be fun watching the young pitchers compete for spots and the Reds were committed to fielding the best 25 man roster- such that several may be in the bullpen.

        He also stated that Winker and Schebler have earned starting corner outfield spots in 2019 and the Reds are committed to a deep offense 1-8 with high on base guys.

      • lwblogger2

        I really think Wisler is a bullpen arm. I know that Nick (I think it was Nick) listed 4 or 5 different pitches for him but he uses his fastball and slider almost exclusively. He’s really a 2-pitch guy. I also think Romano ends up a bullpen guy, for the same reasons.

      • Jim Walker

        Thanks for the report on DW’s interview. I don’t listen to WLW live except for Reds broadcasts. Every time I try to get to a podcast they want to make me get an iheart account to hear it. No Thanks. I’ll tolerate embedded commercials like other stations do but if you want me to have an account to listen to something that played free over the air, you don’t really want me to listen to it.

      • Michael E

        Oh I agree. I said so in other posts. There weren’t any stud prospects moving, save for the Pirates sending over Meadows and Glasnow to Rays. Machado got back a pile of warm goo.

        Maybe RPs weren’t coveted this year, but pretty each of the past 10 years RPs are the most coveted (and overpaid for) pieces. We had THREE good ones that any contender would have loved to have added to their bullpen. Yet here they sit, ready to throw 60 or 70 mostly meaningless innings next year.

        Oh well, what is done is done (and that was a bunch of nothing…water treading). We won’t come close to contending next year either. Maybe once Bailey’s deal (and everyone not named Votto) falls off the books they might actually sign a really good SP.

    • greenmtred

      I don’t recall the numerical ranking, but the Reds’ farm system actually is one of the better ones.

      • Michael E

        yes, but I was inferring they could have improved on that with an additional top tier (elite) prospect and a couple more in tier 2/3 by trading Iglesias, Hernandez and Hughes. Maybe they got offers that were bad, and turning them down was wise, but I am more concerned about whether OUR front office made any aggressive offers? They don’t seem to go looking for things very often.

    • lwblogger2

      I AM an O’s fan. Those trades were painful.

      • Michael E

        Yikes, sorry bout that LW. Our condolences. So you follow the Reds and Orioles apparently. Well, at least both popped up for a contending season or two before imploding back to below average. Neither immediate future looks bright, but the Reds do have some quality prospects that could make them a contender in 2020 or 2021. The trouble is, the rotation doesn’t look very promising, no matter how many of those bats come through.

        As for Baltimore, at least they’re starting. One good thing about quantity is, even if your scouts stink, you’ll have a shot at hitting on a really good MLB player or two. The trouble for Baltimore are those horrible no Avg, high K, power guys, Davis and Trumbo. They will have to wait out some of them falling off the books to really get after an FAs. It looks bleak for a few years for sure. Might as well root for them to get the top pick in the draft the next two years.

        I find myself still wishing the Reds would nose-dive the last two months and get a top 3 pick again…not to mention help the front office get rid of their delusions that they’re really close to contending. Not with this stinky rotation and stinky rotation prospects. There is some talent there, but nothing looking like an SP1 or an SP2 at this point and you can’t win any post-season series with garbage at SP1 and SP2, just doesn’t happen.

      • lwblogger2

        Yeah, the O’s were the team that sort of gave me a shot. I say “sort of” because they signed me non-drafted. I never played an actual game in their system due to injury but they at least took a chance on me. I followed them while serving in the USAF at Ft. Meade, MD, which is halfway between Baltimore and DC. They were coming off some lean years at Memorial Stadium and Oriole Park at Camden Yards opened when I was there. It is still one of my favorite ballparks.

        As for the Reds, I had been hoping for a while that 2019 would be the year but 2020 looks far more likely. A lot of folks would say that that’s probably too soon but how long should a rebuild go? I think the Reds have the prospect depth and should have the means to trade for a SP and buy a SP in free-agency going into 2020. That is if they want to.

  11. Jack

    Dont understand why India is playing third? Never understood why Senzel was always playing third. Shouldn’t they be playing where they will be playing in the majors? Cant quite understand this organization

    • JoshG

      it’s a big switch from the college game to pro, so I am fine with them leaving him as a 3B this year to get his feet wet. But since it appears he will be fast tracked to the big leagues, they need to decide this winter where they envision him playing on the big club

      • lost11found

        AFL would be a good time to try a new position as well or even ST next year. But for being in A ball with wooden bat in his hands for the first time in who knows how long (at least in game action), where he plays D is a secondary concern for this half a year.

    • Bill

      I don’t think they know where Senzel will be playing, so that might make it a little difficult to play him there in the minors. Same with India, maybe he can play SS or maybe he gets in line at 2B and 3B with Senzel and Herrera.

    • lwblogger2

      I believe he’s played some SS as well. Not sure he can play SS professionally, let alone the MLB level as a starter but I would think the Reds will try to find that answer at some point here soon.

  12. msanmoore

    Very glad I’m in the DC television market this time around … I can’t bear to watch train wrecks like this.

  13. Klugo

    I don’t know why they still use IPs to determine a pitcher’s workload. Why wouldn’t they use pitches thrown? One IP could be 5 pitches while the next is 40. Everyone knows our young pitchers have had a rough time getting past 5IP/outing; but how many pitches have they thrown? I don’t know what Castillo, Romano, or any of the other pitcher’s total pitch counts are, but using IPs seems like a bit of an antiquated method.

    • Jim Walker

      I agree. If pitch count/ pitches per inning is on Fangraphs or BB Ref somebody please say where. I find myself going back to MLB game logs (“PLAYS”) on Gameday and the box scores and counting these by “hand”. If you click on the outcome of a plate appearance, it gives you a pitch by pitch account.

      • Jim Walker

        But I do think number of outs (and thus IP) is an important factor in evaluating starters.

  14. Bill j

    The reason the pitch counts are so high, imo, is because a premium is placed on strike outs. Pitchers try to paint the corners and miss trying to get strike outs and run the pitch counts up. Let me bring up Greg Maddox’s 78 pitch complete game.

    • Jbrat22

      Pitch counts also run high when pitchers don’t have an “put-away pitch.” I think that’s the problem with Mahle, Romano, and even Disco at this point. They get two strikes on guys and routinely end up in 2-2 or 3-2 counts because they don’t have swing-and-miss stuff. Castillo does with his changeup, and that’s why he has top-of-the-rotation potential. Greg Maddux had nasty stuff, plus the ability to locate it…not sure that’s relevant here.

  15. doofus

    Is Dick Williams working on his stand-up routine? “The winning vibe and the winning culture that has been present recently is something we’ve been looking for. We see this as a club that is competing with the best teams right now. We don’t want to do anything to disrupt it.” ~Dick Williams

    • WVRedlegs

      In the vein of too many chefs in the kitchen, the Reds have too many Dicks in the front office. Bob Castellini, Walt Jocketty, Dick Williams, and Nick Krall all want to run the baseball operations side. There should only be one to run the baseball operations, but they all seem to have a hand or two in the mix.

    • Klugo

      Sounds like Bob Castellini, and his ventriloquist dummy, DW.
      Hope they have a plan for getting some pitching help in the off-season.

    • roger garrett

      Mahle is gassed and needs some rest.Duvall Scott and Winker did not play every day so we have to pick the two we missed most and then compare what their replacements have done at the plate and defensively.The winning vibe and culture thing was just words and to me the team just said what the heck when Duvall was traded.The return on Adam was better then what I expected so I don’t have a problem with it.We are a 70-72 win club period.This game was/is classic of our last two seasons.We get behind early,we get cookies to hit and score 4 or 5 runs,pad those offensive stats and lose.It starts and ends with pitching of course.Lets be honest about our offense.Does anybody want to see 140 starts next year for Peraza,Billy and Tucker?Do you think we can out slug people at home with these 3 plus the pitcher.Won’t even discuss Joey’s declining power and will Winker’s shoulder get fixed.Lots of holes in this roster and DW better disrupt it because we can not compete without some changes.

  16. lost11found

    With Mahle, its now at the point where you either worry about him being injured and not telling anyone(which is, sadly, a common thing) or if he’s tipping pitches somehow.

    Either way, a month in the minors with Stephenson taking his spot until september call-ups, seems a good way to go.

    With no Winker or Schebler, this offense is going to suffer. Its just a given. But a great time to see what Ervin, Tucker, and Williams can or can’t do. And hopefully Herrera too.

    • Indy Red Man

      Schebler just hit a HR the other night and wasn’t in the lineup last night? I’m thinking he might be in there tonight?

      • lost11found

        Maybe, but there is no need to rush things with him, is there. Has he played OF yet or just DH’ing?

      • Jim Walker

        Scheb didn’t play either place last night. Louisville was at home Wednesday and Columbus OH Thursday. Can’t be that difficult to get to DC from either of those locales. He must be in a holding pattern for some reason. Maybe didn’t pass his throwing test?

  17. Bill j

    We can hope but ii think it will business as usual, maybe in September there may be a little change, but I’m not hopeful for it.

    • Jeff Reed

      I’m not saying the Reds need a Jim Bowden type leader in the front office but, overall this FO seems too conservative. Certainly not moving Iglesias by the trade deadline was a mistake. Why does a last place team which is years from contention need a frontline closer? The Reds have a good bullpen and another closer can easily come from there without Iglesias. The Reds have too many needs to stand pat.

      • roger garrett

        I agree Jeff.We don’t need a closer period and when we do then all of us will be doing back flips in excitement.Standing pat or another roll of the dice is just Walt and his on going influence.Lets be honest how has he done these last 5 years.

      • lwblogger2

        I don’t think the Reds’ FO thinks that the team is “years from contention”, which is why there was only the Duvall move versus moving other players with team control like Iglesias. I think 2020 is probably the year but I think the Reds FO, at least at the trading deadline, feel/felt the competitive window starts in 2019.

  18. Scott C

    Great Recap. I agree that Peraza has not proven himself as a MLB shortstop. I’m not so concerned about the bat as I am the glove and head. Missing that foul pop up was bad but the worse two things I saw last night was not covering the bag (and maybe that was Gennett’s fault… BUT the shortstop has to be the field general on the field, it is his responsibility to make sure the bag is covered by himself or Gennett. That is communication. The other incident was another popup on which Peraza had a much easier play but Suarez called him off and made a back pedaling catch. If I was Suarez I would not have trusted him either. It really does not matter how much he hits if he can’t make this plays in the field.

  19. Davy13

    – The Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, and the 70’s Reds + 1990 Reds must look down condescendingly and think that it is awfully and pathetically cute that this Reds team believe they have developed a winning culture (as per the article that Steve links in the post “Reds Winning Culture”).

    – Mahle’s dress rehearsal is done for the season; let BobSteve have another crack at it

    – I’ve been hotto 4 votto for all his career and was happy that the Reds resigned to be a lifer. Here’s the reality check, he turns 35 next month. Move up Votto to #2 and Suarez to #3. Sign another elite bat in FA.

    – Reds ownership loosen the purse strings a little more! Sign a consistent #1 or #2 rotation pitcher as well in the offseason. Let prospects fill in at SS or CF whichever is not covered by a FA.

    • greenmtred

      We can disparage the “winning culture” all we want, but we aren’t in a position to evaluate it, at all.

  20. Matt WI

    Eric Davis was from another planet. I miss him.

  21. doofus

    It’s obvious that Peraza and Gennett should “Double-Bubble” up to improve their reaction times and attention.

    “One paper that appeared in the journal Stress and Health in 2009 concluded that chewing gum “was associated with greater alertness and a more positive mood, as well as quicker reaction times and improved attention.” ~Jared Diamond, WSJ

  22. WVRedlegs

    People are calling for the Reds to sign one, and maybe two, starting pitchers in free agency after the World Series. I just don’t see it happening. From MLBTR, the names of Madison Bumgardner, Clayton Kershaw, Carlos Carrasco, Chris Sale and David Price were removed, as there is little chance any opt out or the team does not pick up their option.
    The free agent list for this winter is; Name (age next season):
    Trevor Cahill (31)
    Jesse Chavez (35)
    Bartolo Colon (46)
    Patrick Corbin (29)
    Marco Estrada (35)
    Nathan Eovaldi (29)
    Doug Fister (35) — $4.5M club option with a $500K buyout
    Jaime Garcia (32) — $10M club option with a $2M buyout
    Gio Gonzalez (33)
    Miguel Gonzalez (35)
    Cole Hamels (35) — $20M club/vesting option with a $6M buyout
    Jason Hammel (36) — $12M mutual option with a $2M buyout
    J.A. Happ (36)
    Matt Harvey (30)
    Jeremy Hellickson (32)
    Derek Holland (32)
    Hisashi Iwakuma (35)
    Scott Kazmir (35)
    Dallas Keuchel (31)
    Tim Lincecum (35)
    Francisco Liriano (35)
    Jordan Lyles (28) — Club option TBD with a $250K buyout
    Lance Lynn (32)
    Brandon McCarthy (35)
    Matt Moore (30) — $10M club option with a $750K buyout
    Charlie Morton (35)
    Wily Peralta (30) — $3M club option with a $25K buyout
    Martin Perez (28) — $7.5M club option with a $750K buyout
    Drew Pomeranz (30)
    Garrett Richards (31)
    Tyson Ross (32)
    Hyun-Jin Ryu (32)
    CC Sabathia (38)
    Anibal Sanchez (35)
    Ervin Santana (36) — $14M club/vesting option
    Hector Santiago (31)
    James Shields (37) — $16M club option with a $2M buyout
    Chris Tillman (31)
    Josh Tomlin (34)
    Adam Wainwright (37)

    From this list a Tier 1 can be formed of:
    Patrick Corbin (29)
    Dallas Keuchel (31)
    Charlie Morton (35)
    Gio Gonzalez (33)

    And a Tier 2 of:
    Nathan Eovaldi (29)
    Lance Lynn (32)
    Drew Pomeranz (30)
    Marco Estrada (35)
    Matt Harvey (30)

    There are so, so many pitchers on this list that are coming off of years of injuries or are at the twilight of their careers. So who do you target and go after? Corbin will be a NY Yankee, 99.9% sure of that. Morton will re-sign with Houston most likely. Keuchel and Gonzalez will all be wooed by the bigger, richer teams.
    Eovaldi, Harvey, and Pomeranz look to be the best the Reds could go after and all 3 have injury histories. The free agent market will be highly risky. The Reds might instead have to look for 1 or 2 Mat Latos style of trades (2011 version) to bolster their starting rotation. Or sign 1 free agent and obtain a second starter by trade. The free agent market looks a little thin at this time. Eovaldi and Harvey would be my top 2 targets in free agency.

    • jreis

      Any of these pitchers would probably give you more production than Romano, Mahle, Finnegan, Reed, Stephenson. the reds seem to be better at resurrecting old pitchers than developing young pitchers. last 3 years our best pitchers were Strailey, Feldman and Harvey.

      Our plan should be cheap old starting pitchers, lights out bullpen and continue to develop our young position players

      • BigRedMike

        Exactly. Develop position players and bullpen. Utilize Free Agency each year to complete a Starting Rotation. Attempting to develop Starting Pitching does not seem to be the greatest plan. Need to be smart and identify Starters that has data that shows they have been underperforming.

        Think of the flexibility the Reds would have if they did not have Homer’s contract

      • lwblogger2

        Which list? Tier 1 and Tier 2 lists or the entire free-agent list? Also, I’d take Stephenson over Harvey, Estrada, and maybe Lynn… Maybe over Morton if Morton wants more than 2 years.

  23. roger garrett

    Thanks so much for the list and who would you want and who could you convince to pitch in GABP and at what price?Add it all up and it ain’t happening.Got develop our own guys and then go out and get the bats to compete.No team can do both and this market tells me what to do right there.The game says you have to be able to out slug to win.must have starters to keep you in the game and must have a pen to close them out.We can’t afford a true ace and even if we could those guys are few and far between.I don’t even know what a number 2 or 3 is any more with so many starters in the league that can’t or don’t get though the 5th or 6th innings.For example Keuchel and Gio will demand big bucks and they are soft tossing lefties that would be very prone to the first row,wall scraping home run.

  24. Indy Red Man

    I’d go really hard after Wheeler. I don’t want any of these retreads. Wheeler has a 3.20 era since June 1 with 70.3 ip, 58 hits, only 4 hrs, 23 walks, and 63 Ks. He’s got the stuff to possibly turn the corner and become a solid #3 or even a #2. We can’t afford anyone better. Tampa will move anyone so they always offer the moon for Blake Snell or a Carlos Rodon, but that’s not likely.

    • WVRedlegs

      I am really warming up to this idea. But it comes with one condition. Since Wheeler has one year left, I would propose signing him to a 3 year deal after trading for him that takes up his last year of arbitration and 2 free agent years. He has gotten better as the season goes along. He has become healthy. It will cost some prospect capital, but not as much with only one year left. It would be much cheaper prospect-wise than deGrom or Syndergaard, then get him to add on those 2 years and it could be a great deal. Wheeler is making $1.9M this season, so a 3 year contract won’t break the bank.
      Then I would go and trade for the Angels Andrew Heaney. A LHer, but just about the same as Wheeler. Finally healthy, but he doesn’t throw as hard as Wheeler, 93-95 instead of 96-98. Heaney has 3 years left and would bookend very well with Wheeler. That is why I would want to get 2 more years out of Wheeler. He is making $800,000 this year and his 3 arbitration years won’t be massive. The Reds could get both without having to give up any top-4 or 5 prospects. They have several that are no longer prospects but have trade value like Dilson Herrera or Robert Stephenson or Cody Reed that could be part of any package. They still have plenty of team control left and are MLB ready.
      I really would like to get both to anchor the rotation as both are coming into their prime. You would have Wheeler for his age 29, 30, and 31 seasons. And Heaney for his age 28, 29, and 30 seasons. The Reds really need at least one accomplished LH starter.

    • lost11found

      This is good. What ever the problem is, his starts lately the trouble has been early and often. Unlike his rough patch earlier in the year where his difficulty came later in the game. Let him go to L’ville and figure out where the problem lies.

      Still have high hopes for Mahle as I think the stuff and mentality is there.