This news lands out of nowhere:

https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/681584962957651968\

No word yet on return. Stay tuned.

Update on the return:

Official:

99 Responses

  1. sezwhom

    At least he’s in the AL. Now let’s move Bruce. It’s time to rebuild from the ground up.

  2. wkuchad

    Per NY Post’s Joel Sherman, “the Yankees will give up four non-elite prospects”

  3. Kurt Frost

    The Yankees have announced the trade. Rookie Davis is indeed in the deal, and he’ll head to Cincinnati alongside third baseman Eric Jagielo, second baseman Tony Renda and right-hander Caleb Cotham.

    • Kurt Frost

      I cut and paste that from mlbtraderumors

  4. CP

    I posted previously about how trading Chapman would probably net a fairly underwhelming return. I guess the deal is done, how many top 100 prospects did the Reds receive back in return?

    • Hotto4Votto

      According to what I just checked on mlb.com the Reds received the Yankees #6 and #10 prospects and two not in their top 30.

  5. David

    Wow, why not just get a bag of used balls too. The Yanks gave up nothing and I mean nothing for am All Star closer.

    • RedAlert

      Dick Williams off to a flying start looking under the leadership of walt Van Jokerty

    • davidmp2

      Jagielo is a former first round pick with plus power. MLB.com ranks him as the Yankees’ No. 6 prospect and the No. 7 3B prospect.

      Rookie Davis is Yankees’ No. 10 prospect according to MLB.com who appeared four times on Fangraphs’ Fringe 5 . He had the best K:BB rate in High-A at 105:18, and sits 92-95. MLB.com thinks he may end up as a reliever, but could tick up to 100 in relief.

      Renda was once ranked as the Nationals’ No. 12 prospect. He’s a short 2B who has good on-base skills and walked more than he struck out last year. He’s a guy that could develop into a decent bench player.

      Cotham is a reliever who made a handful of appearances as a 27 year old with the Yankees in 2015. Nothing to write home about, but he’s a guy who could compete for the bullpen or be added as AAA depth in the same role.

      Are these guys top 25 prospects? No. But they are hardly a bag of used balls, and if you expected the Reds to get market value for Chapman after the allegations surfaced, you weren’t being realistic.

  6. lwblogger2

    They almost have to be selling low on him considering the MLB investigation. If you aren’t getting good value for your chips then you’re just trimming payroll and being cheap. This team won’t be good again for at least 5 years.

    • Aaron Bradley

      They might be trimming payroll to set up a sale of the team… a new owner is going to look at expenses over quality of players, so they get in cheaply and build the team themselves. Castellini may be going back to the fruit stand.

      • Chuck Schick

        Which explains why his son runs the business operation and business partners son was just named the GM. The team is not for sale.

        It’s unlikely they would sell to “non-Cincinnatians” and I don’t see anyone with 750-900 million to buy them out They’re trimming payroll because they’re rebuilding and it makes no sense to pay anymore than needed to be bad.

    • ManuelT

      +1 about the being cheap part. Cause, as much as it’s been said that the team could use savings to bid on a free agent, when was the last time the Reds outbid anyone for a top free agent?

  7. WVRedlegs

    Jagielo, at least, is the heir apparent for 3B. Rookie Davis is a nice pick up.
    Very underwhelming package, even under the circumstances. Very underwhelming.
    The Reds had been talking to the LA Angels about 2B/3B Kyle Kubitza. I wonder if Renda might be going to LAA soon in a package??

  8. jdx19

    Hm.

    Well… I wish Chapman would have just been a law-abiding citizen for a little longer. This return looks to be pretty poor.

    • jdx19

      Jagielo was rated as a 45 FV (average to below-average regular, or decent bench player) by Kiley McDaniel at the beginning of last year, and he proceeded to put up a 141 wRC+ in 58 AA games before having arthroscopic knee surgery in June. If everything heals right, maybe he’s a Todd Frazier-lite in 2017/8? Looking for those silver linings!

    • lwblogger2

      It is a pure salary dump. There is no way to spin it as anything else. I never would have thought Castellini would turn into Linder.

      • jdx19

        Maybe so, but Jagielo seems to have at least some modicum of up-side. He’s more than organizational filler.

        I’m not saying he’s a proper return, but he at least has a shot to be useful in the future. The other guys, not so much.

      • WVRedlegs

        Davis will be a starter in a couple of years. Sort of in the mold of Travieso. Good fastball (93-96mph) and a wicked curve. Stockpiling starters to arrive in 2018.

      • DEN

        Salary dump? These owners are raking in the monies and this idea that the Reds somehow are losing monies is a joke. There are a number of reasons to deal Chapman, money should have never ever been one of them. IF you are paying a player over $200 million, you can’t cry poor. Wow my two favorite sports teams have really bad GMs….ugh…

      • lwblogger2

        The Reds did allegedly lose money a few years ago but if finances are so bad you don’t put almost $400-Million into 3 players.

      • Chuck Schick

        What evidence do you have that the Reds are raking it in? It doesn’t take a whole lot of “internet detective” work to determine that at a 115 million payroll they are a break even proposition at best.

      • greenmtred

        Sure you can cry poor if you are paying a guy $200 million–maybe it was all you had.

      • greenmtred

        With all due respect, lwblogger2, how is it a salary dump? They had to move Chapman, right? They weren’t going to be able to sign him, and a great closer is not something the Reds will get much value from in 2016.

      • lwblogger2

        All correct but the reason I feel it is a salary dump is that they quite probably could have gotten a better return player-personnel wise if the held him until after the investigation. Now, it could be argued that they needed to take what they could get now because holding him is too risky but I’m not sure I agree.

  9. Chuck Schick

    He’s a 70 inning per year player a year say from Free Agency….did you think the Reds were going to get Mike Trout?

    • lwblogger2

      No, but the underwhelming Dodgers package was a lot closer to what I was expecting and was apparently the package LA offered for Chapman. An bad return for Frazier but likely a fair, if a bit underwhelming return for Chapman. I generally nod my head in agreement with you but this return is so bad that the Reds should have held him.

      • Chuck Schick

        LW…I genuinely respect your view point

        All we know now is who the Reds received….in 2 years we’ll know what they received.

        There was a small universe of teams who were in the market for a 12 million rental closer. He’s a joy to watch, but he just isn’t worth very much

      • lwblogger2

        It is indeed very hard to evaluate a trade until things play out. I wasn’t too keen on the Latos trade last offseason and seemed to be wrong about that one. I hope I’m wrong about this one and the Frazier one too.

    • Carl Sayre

      I may have been misinformed but if he does get hit with at least a 30 day suspension doesn’t that delay his FA a season? I read an article that seemed legit when I read it that it was similiar to the issue where the cubs waited till after May 1st so that got another year before FA. I do not remember the source and I cannot find it but like I said it seemed legit when I read it.

  10. ahab

    I’m very happy with this trade but I must say I have low expectations of the Reds. I would have been okay with a good bat boy

  11. sultanofswaff

    I like the 3B in the deal—Jagielo. Davis’ numbers took a hit when he stepped up to AA, so it’s a bit concerning. The 2B in the deal was a 2nd rounder, so at least there’s some upside. Just based on the initial look at the stats, you could argue they got more for Chapman than Frazier. That’s just wrong.

    Still, give me one top 50 prospect instead of all these lottery tickets.

    The rebuild is in full swing. I get that Phillips can block any deal, so we’ll have to move onto finding a home for Bruce.

  12. Hotto4Votto

    I guess I just don’t get why they didn’t wait. What’s the rush? If this was all the return you were going to to get, then waiting wouldn’t have made any difference.

    • lwblogger2

      As far as players you are correct. What this does is save them money.

    • Joe McManus

      I’m not unhappy with the return. Jagielo was a solid base to start from for the deal. We weren’t getting anymore for him moving forward. We’re going to be bad next year and have another top pick. I’m mostly just frustrated that we can’t move BP in this rebuilding process. I’m not mad at him; he’s earned that right. It’s just a frustrating scenario.

      • Hotto4Votto

        This is what MLB.com says about his defensive abilities.

        With well below-average speed and just average arm strength, Jagielo still has to prove he can stay at the hot corner. Some scouts think he’s better suited for first base,

        Hopefully he can stick at 3B. The Reds have no one in their upper minor leagues who projects as an everyday 3B. Taylor Sparks (rushed to A+ this year) is still a ways away. And, personally, I don’t think Suarez’s bat plays as well at 3B as it does in the middle infield.

      • Hotto4Votto

        Well I hope this report is more accurate.

    • Aaron Bradley

      They should have done the opposite of wait… all these trades needed to happen a year ago when everyone but Castellini could see this team was crumbling. Now its a firesale in a flooded market with everyone past their peak. Horrible timing.

      • Hotto4Votto

        I absolutely agree Chapman, Bruce and Frazier should have been moved at the trade deadline. But at the point that someone dings his value due to non-baseball related activities, I think the Reds should have waited for the smoke to clear instead of selling at about the absolute lowest point.

      • Rdub

        You nailed it Aaron Bradley. Only thing worse than bad decisions is poorly timed bad decisions. Jocketty has taken what was once a very promising team with a promising farm system and turned it into a farce with nothing to show for it.

  13. WVRedlegs

    What else do you expect from such a lame front office?? Under-achievement is the Reds new mantra.

    • DEN

      You want to see a real lame front office look at Indy and the Colts and then you will see a real lame front office.

  14. Takao

    Everyone is super pessimistic, but we actually got a fairly good return. You remember how people complained the Reds went for close to the majors players who lacked upside in the Frazier trade? It’s the opposite here. They went for upside players.

    • Hotto4Votto

      There is a difference between upside and lottery ticket. Upside guys are guys who are in the lower levels of the minors who have the tools and rate well, but haven’t put it all together. Lottery tickets are guys who will turn out decent if everything breaks right. Of the two ranked prospects returned, neither rate better than a 50 on the overall scouting grades. If I recall correctly that’s on a 20-80 scale. So, about as average as average can be. Average does not equal upside.

      • jdx19

        Pretty much a nail-head here.

        There are far more categories than you imply, Takao (close to majors vs upside). While I tend to think that Jag has some upside (mostly because guys with some power tend to have more upside), the rest don’t do it for me. This, of course, is based on the small amount of analysis I could find on these guys since they weren’t even consensus Top 10 guys in the Yankee system. None of them were on FG’s Top 200 at the beginning of 2015, either.

    • thecoastman

      Thank you, Takao. Very nice package… especially picking up a plus power third baseman. Pretty rare these days in baseball…. You have a year or less of Chappy with some very real off the field issues. Does anyone really want to keep this guy around and hope he doesn’t loose any more value if he is distracted and starts the year out slow. Personally, I am surprised we got this much for him.

      Some of the so called Reds fans in here should maybe try something really unique and support their own team. Geez, always seeing the worst in everything. It baffles me why so many Reds fans in here think we have an incompetent front office when the fans and FO personnel from other teams recognize Jocketty as one of the better GMs in the game. This is a guy who turned around a perennial looser into a perennial contender with a fantastic track record in trades. … Free agent and bench signings might be a debatable part of Walt’s track record, but in Uncle Walt I trust when it comes to trades.

      • jdx19

        What FO personnel recognize Jocketty as one of the better GMs in the game? And you know they are all part of the same club, right? You can’t badmouth your clubmates. You should never take ANYTHING seriously that comes out of one FO’s mouth regarding another FO. Theo Epstein would probably say that Dave Stewart and Walk Jockettty are fantastic, cutting-edge type guys.

        What I do know is that all smart baseball writers and analysts think Jocketty is not a good GM at all.

  15. vegastypo

    Walt told Mark Sheldon that Chapman’s off-field activities didn’t figure in the return they got from the Yankees. Gee, that would have been the going rate for Chapman with no threat of suspension?

    • jdx19

      Walt very clearly thinks his fans are mentally incapable of logical thought.

      I can’t wait until that man is gone. Good riddance.

    • Chuck Schick

      Given that there is virtually no threat of suspension it confirms that Chapman’s value is far less than many internet GM’s anticipated

      • jdx19

        How is that a given? Not trying to be argumentative…

        Has there been a release from the MLB that I missed?

      • Chuck Schick

        He wasn’t charged nor arrested and this isn’t the NFL where a weak players union will largely just accept the medicine. The MLBPA isn’t going to allow a major suspension for someone who wasn’t as much arrested. He may get 3 games….if anything.

      • ohiojimw

        RE”: Chuck’s comment…. I believe the MLBPA is very much on board with the MLB domestic violence initiative because it is seen as focusing on education, prevention, and avoidance of reciticism versus being purely or even primarily punitive in nature.

        And MLB has made it clear they are investigating the entire issue from square one versus basing their actions on the police report.

    • greenmtred

      Everybody here seems to recognize that closers are a short step away from worthless, right? Why would a highly paid closer nearing free-agency be worth more than the Reds got? Unless we think, as many of us appear to, that we know more than than many front offices know. We’re clearly going to repeat this orgy of hand-wringing and scornful condemnation every time the Reds complete a transaction this winter. It’s funny, and the funniest part is that none of us really knows how good/bad/indifferent the new guys are going to be.

  16. IrishMike

    I never like Chapman…or the way the Reds used Chapman. And…he never figured into the future plans. If even one of these players does anything constructive, it’s a win from my perspective.

    And…as long as I’m on this subject….I never liked Frazier. Even when he was red-hot early last year it seemed like every home run he hit was a solo shot. Not clutch one bit. Then the HRDerby flushed him down the toilet.

    I do not like Bruce. Let’s kiss him off as well.

    It’s been frustrating to watch this team but I’m optimistic about the future. I do think we need a new manager…as long as we’re cleaning house.

    • Carl Sayre

      I am at a loss about Frazier seemed like every HR he hit was a solo shot. How is Frazier supposed to control who is on base when he hits one? I am not trying to be a [email protected]$$ but I can’t grasp that thought. He did have a terrible second half and still near the top in HR he gave the team plenty of chances to be on base when he went yard.

      • IRISHMIKE

        I would love to see a breakdown of Frazier’s avg with runners in scoring position versus not….either during the streaky first time or while season. And a similar analysis of his performance with anyone on base when hitting a home run versus solo homers, the only clutch HR he hit was in the All-star game. Dude was a choke artist…. Take it to the bank! That’s my point.

  17. RM

    Salary dump. Reds get little in return
    Rich get richer, the poor (if you believe the Reds are poor) get poorer.

    Depending on who else they trade, we could lose 110 games this year!

  18. GreatRedlegsFan

    Good, only Bruce and Philips are left as potential trade candidates. My take is Philips will stick around as his 10/5 rights makes him untouchable and Bruce has almost zero trade value after two consecutive -WAR seasons.

    • Aaron Bradley

      If I am an opposing GM I’d grab Bruce at bargain basement price. Maybe a change of scenery will be just the thing he needs. At the very least he is solid defensively with a plus arm and has plus power, there is really no way to go wrong if you give up a couple lottery tickets for him.

  19. Darrin

    I wonder if that Kelly kid from the bad news bears is still available. Great return for two current all stars.

    • Kyle

      Well since the Reds don’t buy low, they would only traded for Kelly when his value was at its highest. Now that the nightmare on elm street remake and watchmen took some of the shine off of his comeback, he is off limits.

    • Chuck Schick

      He’s still serving a lifetime ban for the
      “Motorcycle incident”!

  20. TR

    At least the farm system is being restocked. It should be a real interesting spring training. I wish the Reds still did that on the west coast of Fla.

  21. seat101

    Seems some folks aren’t happy unless they are unhappy.

    What were your reasonable expectations after the Dodgers put the kibosh on the trade earlier?

  22. earmbrister

    Wow, I don’t get what many were expecting to get from ONE year of Chapman: Bryce Harper?

    We got the # 6 and #10 prospects from a good farm system, both of which are above average prospects, i.e > 45 rating (both rating as 50’s). Both finished the year in AA. Jagielo, 23, was selected in the first round of the 2013 draft, and he plays at a position of need, 3B. He had a good stint in AA, slashing .284/.347/.495, and is rated the 7th best 3B prospect in all of MiLB by MLB. Rookie Davis (great name) is a hard thrower with a mid 90’s FB and a hard curve, who could be a mid rotation starter or an upper 90’s reliever. Cotham could be in the Reds bullpen this year, and Renda is a former # 2 draft pick. Our farm system, which was probably top 5 before the trade, just got even deeper, in exchange for one year of a closer (yes, one of the best in baseball); the Reds closer for 2016 is irrelevant.

    The front office got this deal done in a difficult environment, and got a nice return in exchange.

  23. james garrett

    No way were we going to get full value for Chappy.We missed out doing that by not trading him at the deadline last year and when the Dodger trade fell through that was strike two.Strike three would have been paying him 10 million + to close this year on a team that is in rebuild mode.I love the stats EARMBRISTER posted above so this trade seems to be a good one to me.

  24. NYRedsFan40

    I’m hopeful but not really liking either return for the deals that have been made.

  25. David

    Negative or positive, Reds’ fans will not really be able to evaluate the trade until 2017, when perhaps Jagielo makes it to the Bigs.
    I would be interested if the Yankees expect Aroldis to start or relieve. Perhaps they negotiate a big extension for Aroldis and demand that he become a starter.

  26. David

    After all these trades, I would expect the Reds to draft the best hitting outfielder available in the first round (and the competitive round). They seem to be stocked up on infielders.
    3rd base this year could be Cozart, if his range at SS is reduced due to his knee injury. Or Duvall, who allegedly can play 3rd base.

  27. NYRedsFan40

    Just read this on the Reds website.
    “Jagielo is a guy we liked in the Draft,” Jocketty said. “We could see him as a potential left-handed — maybe utility guy at first and third — for the first few years. He would definitely be a strong bat off the bench, definitely a solid hitter.”

    • Hotto4Votto

      I’m glad the Reds are targeting utility players. Seems like solid logic.

    • WVRedlegs

      That was true. Jagielo was very close to being drafted by the Reds in 2013. They had targeted him, but the Yankees took him #26 overall. The Reds took OF Phil Ervin next at #27 overall.

    • Tom Diesman

      Walt used to have Jack for that, now we got Jag for that.

  28. Gatorjtm

    Enough of how the poor reds need to dump salary and rebuild. The small market team is a bunch of crap. If this was true St. Louis would not be good year after year, but the Cubs, Mets, Red Socks, Phillies, Dodgers would be in the playoffs every year. Quit comparing to the Yankees. But Jocketty got it right. The Reds are a business and I will treat them like a business the provides me a lousy product. I will take my business elsewhere. Lets see how that helps their bottom line.

  29. Phil Gasson

    Don’t forget the reds traded All Stars Lee may and Tommy Helm’s to Houston for four nobodys. See how that turned out.

    • Ed Koverman

      Don’t think we got little joe in either the Frazier or chapman trades

  30. Carl Sayre

    The thing that is giving me nightmares is they are taking some questionable return for pretty good ball players that it is a salary dump…………….wait for it so they can extend Bruce. This would fit with how Mr. C thinks and WJ has been in town long enough he can recycle Reds instead of recycling Cards?

  31. WVRedlegs

    Reds still appear to be conversing with LA Angels regarding BP, Bruce, and Hoover. Would the Reds take another Rule V draftee the Angels got from Seattle and have to have him on the 25 man roster all year? If they could absorb 2 Rule V’s, it would be in a down year like 2016 is shaping up to be.
    24 year old Ji-man Choi anybody? Would have to move him to LF.

    • Jonathan Morgan

      That would be 3 rule 5’s.
      Already have o’grady and cave.

  32. Steve Mancuso

    Folks, please confine your comments toward the Reds, not other commenters or writers or fans. Also, please treat everyone, including the Reds front office and ownership personnel with respect. I’ve had to ban or edit several comments this morning. Don’t bother coming here to score points against other commenters. Just write about the Reds. If you can’t live with that, you’ll have to post somewhere else.

    • Mister D69

      I guess not much tolerance for passion on this blog, just endless discussions about WAR and wRC+ and other “fun” topics.