National reporters seem to agree that the Reds and Nationals have worked out a deal to trade Brandon Phillips to Washington. But the Reds second baseman has earned the right to reject any trade, so it falls to the Reds to persuade BP to sign off on the agreement. It appears there’s been no movement today on those negotiations. But there are three inaccurate narratives developing in the national media:

Narrative: Phillips should expect more money from the Reds because he gave the team a hometown discount on his 4-year, $72 million deal (Nightengale, ESPN)

Reality: There was no hometown discount. Here’s what Phillips said about the deal at the time: “Phillips often says how much he loves playing in Cincinnati. That, however, doesn’t mean he’ll accept a hometown discount. ‘It’s a business. This is my last contract. There’s no homeboy hookup. That ain’t going to work. I want to be paid what I’m worth.'”

Narrative: If the Reds don’t “dramatically” improve their offer, there won’t be a deal (Bowden, ESPN)

Reality: Either side could produce a deal by changing their position. It’s not fair to frame the issue placing the blame on the Reds. Phillips could soften his stance and he’d be a Washington National faster than you could tweet DatDudDC.

Narrative: Phillips won’t agree to a trade because he loves Cincinnati.

Reality: If that were the case, nothing the Reds could offer him would matter. Negotiations would be over. Rest assured, this is about money to Phillips. He may have a preference for staying in Cincinnati, but it’s nothing that wouldn’t be overcome by showing him the money. Nothing at all wrong with that. But please let’s not hear about how much he loves Cincinnati if this falls through.

There’s a lot of lingering animosity between Phillips and the Reds that dates back to his perception that the club lied to him during negotiations over his contract.

You’ve got to love the standoffs between billionaires and a multi-millionaire professional athletes.

248 Responses

  1. Michael_Øk

    To the Reds’ defense: at least they’re trying to move the veterans out of Cincy in order to get younger talent.

    • jessecuster44

      Agree with younger. Not so much with “talent.”

      • redmountain

        I think the moves for Cueto and Leake were for talent. I think the Frazier trade could be very good or not so hot, but they got talent back. Whether all three will make it to the show remains to be seen, but they have a guy who can play SS or second and can get on base. No he will not hit HR, but if he can hit 300 and 350 OBP, steal some bases, and be competent in the field, they will be younger and have a guy for 6 years. Cozart or Suarez can play 3rd for this year and then some of the 3B may be ready in the minors. Blandino could also be ready next year so I think they got what they needed to make this trade. It remains to be seen what will come from the OF, but that is another story.

      • phil koff

        @JESSECUSTER44 “So who hits HRs now?”

        Just like the last few years, Votto and Phillips will hit solo shots in the 8th inning after the team is down 7-1.

  2. chris

    As the implosion of Marty B farwell baseball life comes, the once hopeful baseball pride I had going the distance to spend the money to see Reds game is gone . Baseball is business and I truely hope BP gives the Reds the shaft and stays to force a release or unsettled dugout of him becoming a high priced pinch hitter for Price to manage ..

    • rhayex

      Why? How would that help all of our favorite team? The team is bigger than any one player. The idea of Phillips doing that makes me sick.

      • RedAlert

        10 and 5 – he’s earned the right to string it out as long as he wishes since the Reds want him gone. Business of baseball cuts both ways.

      • I-71_Exile

        True, but you said it yourself—it cuts both ways. If BP strings this out or outright rejects the trade, then a big part of his legacy is that he cared more about getting paid (and “entertaining”) than championships/winning. He has two years left with the Reds and they aren’t going to doing much winning in that time frame. The Nats are a contender for a world championship.

        Myself? I’d rather have a chance of winning a ring.

        BP can make the locker room as poisonous as he wants—the Reds have shown that they aren’t opposed to playing short handed.

      • jdx19

        I wish people would stop using the word “earn.” He’s a rich guy trying to get richer. The MLBPA got that clause thrown in the agreement and everyone gets the benefit from it who meets the reqs. BP didn’t do anything out of the ordinary. He was conferred that right. He didn’t ‘earn’ anything.

        I really hope the Reds call his bluff and bench him and start Peraza at 2nd.

      • Vicferrari

        Agree so much with what you say JDX.
        I hope the Reds take a step back and realize how bad of a mistake they made with over paying so much he is virtually untradeable despite being in the borderline upper-echelon of 2B in the league.
        To pay him even more money to not play for them is ridiculous

      • Doug Gray

        JDX, but Phillips did earn that 10/5 by being a quality enough player to play in the Major Leagues for 10 years.

      • jdx19

        Touche, Doug. He was good enough to stick for 10/5. But, my contention is that doesn’t “earn” him extra money… or shouldn’t. It earns him the right to stay in Cincy, if that is what he wants. And the opportunity cost of staying in Cincy is $0 extra and likely some amount of diminished playing time, even if it is only slightly. That is what he’s earned. The right to stay in Cincy. It’s completely divorced from the money.

        Now, if he wants a reasonable amount of money, say, a few million dollars, that is just good business. But if he is demanding something like $25M to sign his name on the consent form, then good riddance.

      • jdx19

        Agreed. That would make me sick if he decided to stay for money reasons and proceeded to be a big D for the whole season.

      • rhayex

        Yup, and knowing Phillips, he’d be a media and PR nightmare for the whole season.

      • greenmtred

        Agree with Doug. And, RHAYEX, I don’t think that any of us realized that you know BP. Why did you keep that info secret for so long?

    • Chuck Schick

      So, you like the Reds and Phillips so much you’re hoping for a situation in which neither benefits?

    • TC

      I enjoy the business side of baseball. It’s just as important to winning as balls and strikes. But it’s business and therefore I don’t take it personally.

      I think it would be wrong for someone to tell you you shouldn’t wish hardship for your favorite team, but I will say I don’t understand it.

  3. old-school

    OK BP, stay in Cincy and be the most overpaid utility player in the game sitting the bench behind a 21 year old rookie…I call your bluff….you can play 3rd base on business day specials and Sundays. I bet he’d be a solid extra outfielder too….Is that how you want the next two years to go BP?????

    • jdx19

      Exactly. The Reds really have the power once you get past the point of Phillips denying the trade. Will they exercise that power? Who knows.

      • Doug Gray

        There’s next to no chance that if Phillips is here in April that he’s not the starting 2B unless he’s injured.

    • TC

      Bad business.

      Put the best team on the field. I believe he will be better over the next two years. Certainly next year.

  4. thecoastman

    Ouch, this has the potential to get pretty ugly. My gut feeling says he wants the payday he thinks he never got and I just don’t see the Reds letting him bend them over the sawhorse.

    Not asking you to crystal ball this, Steve, but what is your gut feeling? Do you think it gets done eventually?

    • Steve Mancuso

      Don’t really have a gut feeling either way. I could easily see this not getting resolved though. Think about how delicate and carefully balanced the Reds-Nats deal is to start. Then, BP demands another big installment of cash from the Reds. Suddenly, the trade doesn’t make sense for the Reds. Maybe if the Nats can help share the cost of BPs demands. In the end, if Phillips insists on a big payoff to approve the trade, it obliterates the intersection of mutual interest.

      • mtkal

        Exactly what I was thinking. Isn’t it really the Nats who have to pay what ever the new contract is? What if the Reds work out a big increase for Phillips that he agrees to, but then the Nats don’t want to pay that much. Kind of seems like Washington should be negotiating with Brandon. Or am I missing something?

    • Vicferrari

      Where is the perception that BP is under paid? I thought the Reds have tried to move him for several seasons. and no one wants the contract. I take it that it the perception is the contract is over paid- anyone have any insights???

      • VaRedsFan

        I don’t think he is underpaid or overpaid. He’s getting about the going rate for his production.

      • Vicferrari

        Then why is he so hard to trade with 2 years left on his contract- I know he has 5-10 privilege, but I thought they could not move him 2 years ago when he was coming off a 100 RBI season

      • Shchi Cossack

        Vic, Phillips had a significant resurgence in his performance during 2015. He reversed a disturbing decline trend from 2011 through 2014. I think the 23 SB with an 88% success rate were particularly important, not for their offensive contribution but for what they detailed about Phillips’ physical capability and health. Suddenly the final years of his contract look more realistic.

        Two years ago, Phillips appeared to be in a steep decline and had 4 years remaining on his contract. The Reds were still pretending to compete for a championship and they had no replacement for Phillips available, so they asked more in return than the market permitted. Now Phillips has just 2 years remaining on what appears to be a very reasonable contract, but the 10/5 rights create a serious impediment to any trade.

      • Vicferrari

        Yeah, I see your point, but it still would be a huge mistake to pay him more money to not play for them…but I guess I would have to see the details

  5. ohiojimw

    I don’t see where there is any blame here on any side. it’s simply business.

    Given the Reds situation versus the Nats situation, it is easy to assume Phillips would prefer to be in DC; but, maybe that isn’t the case. Perhaps he is ambivalent or actually does have a bias for staying put for two years then retiring.

    Keep in mind once he forfeits his 10/5 rights, they are gone in a practical sense. The Nats could turn around and flip at the deadline or next off season; and, he’d have no say at all. That could well be weighing on his mind too.

  6. scotly50

    I actually like Datdude. But he no longer fits into the Reds scheme. He can force himself on us, and likely will.

  7. JB WV

    It’s BP’s agents that are delaying this deal. Didn’t he tweet that he was changing area codes? Probably a done deal in his mind until his boys decided they could make a few more bucks for themselves.

    • Jim t

      Do you really think they could do that without his consent? SMH!!

    • Doug Gray

      All Phillips tweeted was that he was getting on a plane from Cincinnati to DC.

      That trip, of course, was planned long before any of this happened as a part of an Under Armor thing. He left DC to go to Baltimore for a similar event. That it just happened to coincide with the talks made it all the more crazy.

      • JB WV

        @JIMT, Of course not. But lawyers have a way of delaying things if it’s to their benefit, especially sports agents. And to Doug, I guess we were misled about the area code thing. The danger of assuming.

      • Jim t

        @JB WV how to the y benefit by not getting a deal done???

  8. Nick Carrington

    If a deal happens, hoping the Reds throw in enough cash to get a prospect worth having. They need to acquire talent. But Steve’s right, if BP wants too much, the deal becomes less advantageous and doesn’t make sense.

    • Michael E

      I agree with you on this. Pay him a few more million or to the Nats and get a top 8 prospect of some kind. Heck, package him with Chapman and get a two top 5 prospects.

      • Chuck Schick

        Why would that Nationals…..who don’t need money……be willing to trade a better prospect to the Reds for a few million dollars?

        What is the value of a top prospect relative to some upfront cash for a team that has plenty of money?

      • VaRedsFan

        Because they get Phillips instead of having to play Danny Espinoza

  9. RFM

    BP likes attention. Even if he fully intended to become a National I would expect him to stretch it out for a few days. So far the fact that he hasn’t shot it down is promising, and perhaps a sign he’s seriously considering it. It doesn’t hurt him to try to get some sorta concessions, as long as he eventually backs down from it. I don’t expect the last week(s) of December to be terribly busy around baseball, and the chances of the Nationals withdrawing their offer and moving on before New Years seems unlikely, to me. Phillips has got some time to milk it for attention.

    I’ve also seen (not here) the allegation that the Reds should’ve gotten his consent to waive his no-trade rights before entering into negotiations, which I think is pretty silly. Figure out the plan, then submit it to the player for necessary approval, and he might be more likely to accept than he would to sign a vague offer to leave town. It’s similar to the Barry Larkin-Mets situation years ago, where it’s a matter of selling the offer to the player.

    • Ken Goldsberry

      Bingo! If anyone didn’t expect a bit of showmanship out of BP, you’re fooling yourself. He’s a great player, great in the community, I give the man all the props he’s due, but he’s also self absorbed and a bit of a prima donna. This is happening exactly as I’d expect. He’ll go, but not after raking the Reds front office over the coals a while.

  10. TR

    I don’t think Phillips was forced to sign the 18 million dollar a year contract. I doubt the Reds will give up anymore money: too much animosity underneath it all. Washington is the trade partner that needs a second baseman so the Nats will have to step in if they want the trade completed.

    • preacherj

      I do wonder though how badly Washington wants a 34 year old second baseman. They may not do anything else but tell the Reds to ‘handle it.’

      • TR

        Check out the Washington Post sports page. They feel Phillips will fill the void at second base for the Nats. But they put the onus on the Reds to get the deal done. The sweetening of the pot (money) will have to come from the Nationals and this will lessen the quality of the player(s) the Reds receive.

      • vegastypo

        I think that is exactly right, and posted that opinion below. Didn’t realize you said it here.

  11. Jeremy Conley

    I’m not sure what the Reds can actually do. I don’t know if they are even allowed to add money to his deal to get him to waive his no-trade clause. Most often in these situations, a player asks that their option year(s) be picked up ahead of time, but I don’t think Phillips has any option years.

    I do know that he had some money deferred in his deal, so the Reds could certainly offer to undo that so he gets paid earlier, but that may be it.

    • lwblogger2

      If I recall correctly, BP wanted a year and associated money added to his deal to wave his 10/5 rights to go to the Yankees. That essentially is what killed that deal. The Yankees allegedly said no unless the Reds kicked in a decent chunk of that cash and the Reds refused.. BP ended up staying with the Reds. Contracts can always be reworked provided the player and team can agree on new or revised terms.

      I like BP and if I were his friend I’d tell him to see if he could secure a no-trade clause tacked into his contract so that once he goes to the Nats he won’t get uprooted again. Then I’d remind him of what the Reds are doing to this team and that he’d likely toil away for a losing team and may end up not being a starter. This even if he’s still the better player. I’d tell him that the Nats are going for it and that he has a real shot at postseason baseball and maybe a ring with them.

      • Jim t

        BP knows all that and will except a deal but not before gaining some financial compensation from the Reds to do so. His right under the collective bargaining agreement.

      • lwblogger2

        Possible. If the Reds refuse then he’ll need to decide for himself rather he wants to stay in Cincinnati and not pull up stakes but stay on a lousy team, or if he wants to pick up and move to play for Baker in Washington, a team with a decent chance of being good. It’s his right to decide.

  12. RedAlert

    Call it what you like – ” conferred “, “earned” , whatever . BP is a 10/5 player and the Reds are the ones that gave him the contract. He has a right to every penny they owe him . If it involves deferred money as has been referenced , then that hurdle must somehow be cleared regardless of how long it takes them to work it out to his satisfaction . Reds put themselves in this position . If they want to move him, they WILL work it out to his satisfaction. I don’t fault them for trying to trade him , but I’m not gonna be upset with Phillips either. If I had 10/5 time under my belt as a player and deferred money involved , ain’t going nowhere until it’s resolved to my liking .

    • jdx19

      I don’t begrudge him what he’s entitled to based on the contract he signed. He deserves every penny of what the contract is meant to pay him.

      What I take issue with is wanting MORE just because of the 10/5 rules. People can say it is “business” and stuff, which is certainly true, but I won’t cheer for BP ever again if he denies the trade based on wanting additional money that isn’t already tied into his contract.

  13. Mark Cowett

    Your thinking seems spot on. This episode from the outside seems like a divorce, and the messes that ensue sometimes. Problem–no one knows from outside. Continue to wish that so-called pundits would shut up, but hey, they get paid to inflame. Tough time for “Reds family.” Doesn’t seem just like a business!

  14. Seadog

    Brandon Phillips has earned every penny he gets from the reds. He has earned his 10/5. Period. He has been a very good 2nb for this team for a very long time. Put his life-long “Red” numbers up against any 2nb this team has ever had. Compare them. Has there ever been a better 2nb for the Reds? No. Not even close. In a 100+year history. In my mind–not only pay him, retire DatDude#. I will miss him…..

    That said…Jim Bowden/Reds picked him off the scrape heap… Bowden may knoiw more than we think….

    • redsfan11

      I think that was Krivskey that traded for him. Anyone else remember? Right after we added Bronson I believe.

    • dougschloemer

      Some might argue that small guy #8 who won a couple of MVP’s and was inducted into HOF was a pretty good 2nd baseman so to say Phillips was Reds best and ” not even close” is in a word….absurd.

      • dougschloemer

        Morgan Reds WAR 59.2
        Phillips Reds WAR 26.4

      • Vicferrari

        Maybe there is a good point somewhere but Seadog blew it with this

      • lwblogger2

        Agree. BP has been a very good 2B but he isn’t Joe Morgan and isn’t even really in the same class as Morgan. No matter how you want to evaluate it, Morgan was the far superior player.

    • Chuck Schick

      Joe Morgan is perhaps the greatest 2nd baseman of all time.

      Brandon Phillips was the greatest 2nd baseman on the 2015 Reds.

      • JB WV

        Exactly. Not demeaning BP, who I loved to watch, but Little Joe actually cared about OBP.

    • jack

      You wrote this at 3:40 a.m. So I’m thinking you tied one on tonight. That’s the only reason I can come up with for you saying Phillips is better than Morgan.

    • jdx19

      So, should they just give him $250 million extra dollars for the hell of it? Just because he was a decent player for many years? How about a billion? He earned it, right?

      It’s his prerogative to disapprove the trade. If he does, he gets no extra money and he’ll likely get diminished playing time. That’s what he has “earned” with 10/5. He has not “earned” extra money. He has only earned what is laid out in his contract.

    • greenmtred

      I’m a BP fan, for sure. But there was a guy named Morgan who played second base for the Reds. Pretty good numbers. Mentioned by some as the best ever at his position.

    • BL11PR14

      You are insane. Joe Morgan was a ton better than BP.

  15. Jim t

    This will get done because the Reds want to trade him and BP wants to be traded. Guys this is a business deal. Reds want to save some money in a year were they Are rebuilding. BP doesn’t want to play on a team in rebuild mode that we not contend. Contractually he has the leverage to command compensation for his length of service to the Reds. If the Reds want to move him they will need to satisfactory negotiate a buy out of that right. Nothing personal just business. All the other stuff is drama created by the media. Every player in the league would be leveraging this situation if they could that’s why it was put in the collective bargaining agreement. He isn’t the first and won’t be the last.

  16. RedFuture

    Bowden did not bring BP to Cincinnati. It was Wayne Krivsky and he brought Arroyo here for Pena just after or before. These were his first moves. Wayne was doing alright until he messed the Kearns deal and that one deal I believe started him toward the door. Yes, BP and BA should eventually go into the Reds Hall. BP most certainly earned the status that he has, but I do believe that he will accept the deal in the end. There will at least have to be some token incentive to make it happen. However the incentive is structured the Nats, will essentially be paying for it because the return for the Reds should be reflective of it.

  17. vegastypo

    from mlb.com

    However, The Washington Post reported that as of Friday night the Nationals and Reds had made no progress because Phillips had not yet agreed to waive his no-trade clause. The story went on to say that the talks were at a standstill, with the “onus on the Reds.”

    • vegastypo

      It feels to me like the Nats would take Phillips if they can get him, because they’re probably not giving up much in the first place, but they don’t want him badly enough to try to sweeten the pot for BP. ‘Here, Reds, fix this or we will move on.’

  18. james garrett

    Its always about the money regardless of which side you set on.As a fan I don’t like to think that way and would rather think about a player wanting to play a game he loves.I really don’t care about it because the Reds must get younger and cheaper sooner or later and he is just one player,If they can’t agree then keep him and lets go on.If he doesn’t perform then bench him and go on.Yes you end up with a very expensive utility player but what alternative do you have.He earned this by being a 10/5 guy so it is what it is.

  19. redmountain

    All the talk about prospects coming from the Nationals seems a bit silly. Top five? they will not give up a top five and they have no OFs with any pop in their bats. That leaves pitching, which could help, but is more likely to be lower minors material and will take several years to mature. The other thing is that Phillips off the books would not be too much of a hardship since I doubt it would cost 14 mill to get rid of him and if it did the Nationals would have to sweeten the pot.

    • lwblogger2

      I wouldn’t think the Reds would get much more than salary relief and minor league filler.

  20. Rose4HOF

    Let him ride the pine , that will give him more time to tweet all of his “fans”. He doesn’t yet get it. They’ve tried and traded him before. He must really think he’s wanted. I wouldn’t negotiate anything for him to try and get him traded. He should appreciate that someone a tally does want him on their team. Move on and outta here.

  21. Redgoggles

    I acknowledge his right to max out his earnings potential but at the end of the day, if you are a competitive, winning player where would you rather play the next 2 years? And, that’s coming from a Reds fan! I’m not really seeing why the Reds are the ones with the (perceived) burden to sweeten the deal. I would explain to BP that if he stays with the Reds that the team is devoted to moving to the future, and that his role will be reduced next year. Call his bluff, or to be generous throw in a bit more to help with his moving costs. IMO, he is more important to move than Frazier, Bruce or Chapman.

  22. rhayex

    Phillips refused to waive his no trade and the Nationals are moving on, per Rosenthal. I honestly don’t know if I can root for Phillips anymore. He’s screwed the Reds twice now, once in 2013 when we were going to trade him for Gardner, and now again. I understand he has the right to refuse a trade, but this is not in the Reds best interest.

    Very disappointed right now.

    • RedAlert

      It don’t matter that it’s not in the Reds best interest – he is doing what’s best for him. Reds are the ones that gave him there contract. Not his fault that they won’t do what it takes to close the deal to move him. They want him traded – sorry , I don’t feel sorry for Reds one bit. They got extra money now !

      • rhayex

        Sure it doesn’t matter to him what’s in the Reds best interests, but it really should. The Reds organization has treated him extraordinarily well during his time here, and you’d think he’d have the decency to treat them the same. They’ve had his back with all of his issues with the media (until he outright called Castellini a liar), and have been more loyal to him than they could have reasonably been expected to be.

        I’ve got a bad feeling this relationship is going to get really ugly. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Reds announced Peraza as the opening day starter at 2B if he has a good spring training.

      • Chuck Schick

        The Reds and Phillips aren’t business partners. He has no obligation to care about the Reds best interest anymore than the Reds need to care about his. The Reds treated him well because he was a valuable asset, not because they liked him. Production buys understanding and support.

      • VaRedsFan

        So in your job you do a fine job, are happy where you are, and you’ve been treated great by your company, and they want you to uproot yourself and family and move halfway across the country. Not as easy as it sounds right?

  23. DEN

    The idea that Brandon is in the wrong here is laughable. If the Reds want him gone shut up and pay him what he wants or pencil him as the Reds second baseman .

    • rhayex

      So if he wants another 2 years, 15 million a year, we should just give him the money? That’s what he was asking when the Reds tried to trade him for Brett Gardner.

    • Vicferrari

      Is there a precedent for this happening with other 5-10 players. This seems really selfish of player to virtually hold his team hostage if this is about getting more money after he was well paid, arguably over his value

      • Jim t

        Players have often been paid to waive their no trade clause.

      • rhayex

        Not to the extent Phillips is rumored to be requiring. He’s not a star player, yet he’s asking to be paid like one in both years and dollars.

      • Jim t

        RAYHEYEX, how does BP benefit by not getting a deal done??

  24. Jim t

    Guys professional sports are a business. What fans need to understand is its pay for play. Why does BP get all the heat for exercising his right to want to be compensated for waiving his right to refuse the trade. Ownership wants to pretend it’s a team sport when it benefits them and then act like it’s a business when it serves their interest. If there was no collective bargaining agreement the players would get taken to the cleaners. Taxpayers build the stadiums,players perform on the field and ownership collects the money. If ownership wants him gone negotiate a mutually agreeable solution and be done. They are the ones who signed him in the first place.

  25. mtkal

    Is Phillips asking for the Reds to just give him a lump sum of money before he leaves, or a contract that will pay him more that he has been making. If the latter, then isn’t it the Nats that should negotiate with him?
    If I’d read all of the above comments or more articles about this, I’m sure I’d know the answer to my questions. Sorry for being lazy.

  26. old-school

    The Reds owe BP 27 million for the next 2 years to complete his 6 year 72 million dollar deal. They owe him nothing more, including a starting job or stroking his ego. They traded Todd Frazier away with 2 years of team control to obtain their next leadoff hitter and second baseman who is major league ready……and now he is going to be benched for 2 years behind BP? Obtaining Peraza to sit the bench behind an aging veteran after you trade Frazier is insane.
    The Reds owe their fans a commitment to rebuilding as fast as they can and that means Peraza and Suarez need 650 at bats playing every day next year at 2b and 3b. BP wants an incentive to leave. Give him one. Make him the new backup infield utility player.

    • ohiojimw

      And if BP was serious about it several years back when he said this was his last contract, he could just keep smiling and laugh all the way to the bank every payday.

      Not much doubt that any player would rather be on a winning team than a losing team and playing rather than sitting; but, there would also be real $$$ personal cost for BP in making the move. Why should he eat them out of pocket for the convenience of his past or future employer when the CBA gives him the (implicit) right to seek compensation? Business is business.

  27. another-bob-in-nc

    As another sight said “millionaire versus billionaire.”

    I suspect this is about money. If that’s the case, both sides will play financial chicken until one side thinks the Nats are serious about backing out.

    In any case, it won’t have an impact on the fans unless you think the money will be spent on improving the team. IMO the prospect received won’t, as the Nats have said, be significant.

    • another-bob-in-nc

      DOH! Site read not sight said.

  28. rhayex

    So according to Heyman, Phillips was again asking for an extension with more money in order to waive the no trade.

    As someone else said, some people think that leaving for another team in free agency is how you screw a team. Nope, this is the way to do it.

    • RedAlert

      How bout how Reds management don’t give a crap about the fans !!!! This ain’t on him at all. Front office expecting fans to wholeheartedly support the monstrosity they will run out in the field this year ?

      • rhayex

        No, they’re not. They’re expecting fans to act like adults and realize that it’s a process to rebuild a team so it can experience sustained success. There are way too many fans who are throwing tantrums right now and aren’t even considering that the front office actually knows what they’re doing.

        If Reds fans had their way, everyone would be getting 200 million dollar contracts, we’d have traded for Mike Trout and Bryce Harper for Corky Miller and a dollar, and we’d have no farm system because “Those guys are just unproven prospects, anyway!”. There’s a reason that the Reds pay these guys a lot of money to do their jobs rather than just listen to whatever randomRedsfan420 is saying on twitter.

      • DEN

        What would you like them to run out there?

      • RedAlert

        Well then ,guess you are just satisfied to get a nice bobblehead instead of seeing winning baseball anytime soon. Bobblehead bribe about the nicest product that this current front office can offer to get fans thru the door.

      • Ryan Lykins (@ryan_lykins)

        Not speaking about anyone personally but most fans are fair weather as they come and don’t understand or want to understand the business side of baseball. It is a business. The team is going nowhere as currently constructed. Something has to be done. If it takes losing a few fans in the process of turning this monstrosity of a team into a winning team then they should take the loss. Those fans will come back. It’s the nature of the game.

  29. ohiojimw

    Twitter has lit up that the Nats are “moving on”

    Apparently BP was asking for an extension in return for waiving his 10/5 rights.

    Unless it was to set up a juicy team buy out option on the ensuing year, maybe he really just wanted to stay put. Even if a buy out option was involved, he chose to stay put versus move for whatever additional compensation was offered,

    His situation is going to be interesting to watch through the remainder of the off season as it is hard to imagine what would have been a better situation for him than the Nats.

  30. Jim t

    I will not BOO BP. He is fulfilling his contract that the Reds and him negotiated in good faith. It’s the Reds who wish to change the terms and conditions by trading him to the NAts. Why shouldn’t he be compensated?

    • jdx19

      That isn’t even close to accurate.

      He has the right to deny a trade. He has the right to stay in Cincinnati. Not to demand money. It’s legalized extortion.

      The Reds aren’t changing terms of anything.

      • RedAlert

        Well then , guess he’ll still be a Red then won’t he.

      • Jim t

        He is not demanding anything. He is in this position because the Reds tried to change the contract. Do you drink?

      • greenmtred

        Everybody has the right to demand money. Not to get it, necessarily.

  31. Jim t

    The Reds have other options. They can release him and pay him what is owed on the contract. Why wouldn’t they do that??? Oh, I know it wouldn’t be to their advantage. tThe reason their is a collective bargaining agreement is because the owners needed to be put in check. How about what the Cubs did to Kris Bryant. Should have made the club out of ST and was held back to ensure he was team controlled for a additional year. Could potentially cost him millions. BP is exercising his rights under the CBA. He should not be vilified for it.

    • Jim t

      Jesse Winker could go to ST and produce like Babe Ruth and he will not break camp with the team. No way they bring him up and start his service clock on a rebuilding year thus saving themselves a year of team control and potentially millions of dollars. Please don’t give me Oh, the poor owners. The investment Bob C and group in buying the Reds has tripled. Anyone heard them roll back concessions and ticket prices?

      • lwblogger2

        The MLBPA and Bryant have filed a grievance against the Cubs for tampering with his service time clock. Not sure what kind of case they have but we may want to keep an eye on how that plays out.

    • rhayex

      I think that if you complain about how teams are manipulating service time, players are also doing the same thing with 10-5. I’ve put some thought into it, and I think a system where a player isn’t getting paid a pittance for the first 4 years (pre-arb and arb-1), while veterans aren’t able to do what Phillips is doing right now would work a lot better for teams and players.

      Granted, it would never happen because owners won’t want to play their pre-arb players more and players don’t want to give up their veteran rights, but it needs to be revamped.

      I think the Japanese system of 9 years club control works a lot better, especially for small market teams. If you could put in a reasonable escalation system and pay players much more early on, it might actually work for the players as well.

      • rhayex

        Quick edit: While 9 years might be a bit much, something like 7-8 would work much better than our current system. It would reward smaller market teams more for actually building their teams from the inside as well.

        This new CBA will be interesting. I hate that the 6 year team control issue never seems to come up in negotiations.

    • jdx19

      I hate the player-vs-ownership argument. I don’t feel bad either for millionaires or billionaires.

      If the players wanted billions instead of millions maybe they should have gone to business school instead of playing baseball.

      • Jim t

        Sounds to me like BP has gone to business school. He’s got the Reds by the short hairs.

  32. vegastypo

    from a yahoo blog ……

    The on-again, off-again trade that would send veteran second baseman Brandon Phillips to the Washington Nationals is off again, and perhaps for good this time.
    According to a report from Fox Sports’ Ken Rosenthal, the Nationals are moving on from Phillips and will now pursue other options to fill their second base need.

    • jdx19

      Yep. Sounds about right.

      I hope eventually we can find out what BP was demanding so we can have a more nuanced discussion about it… 😉

  33. Myron Gaines

    Could anyone give more insight into what extent the Reds could reduce Phillips’ playing time over the next two years (obviously barring a trade)? Would this depend on the statistics of the players “competing” for the position, or could the manager simply bench Phillips for the majority of the season?

    I’m assuming the CBA prevents benching players without reasonable justification, but I have no idea about the details.

    • Ken Goldsberry

      The CBA has nothing to do with playing time. The Reds won’t sit BP, it would be cutting their nose off despite their face. Absolutely nothing to be gained and they’re businessmen, it won’t be personal to them. The only person potentially losing is BP, assuming he’d like to return to the playoffs prior to his retirement. But if he’s content to be playing for a 90-100 loss team over the remainder of his contract, the Reds are on the hook for 2 more years and 27 million more, regardless whether he sits, plays every day, or gets released.

      • Myron Gaines

        I asked because if management lets Phillips know that he might be platooning or even riding the bench the next two seasons, his thoughts on moving out of Cincinnati might change.

    • Dan

      I would assume that teams can play players as much or as little as they want to. It isn’t as if baseball is run by the players. Their job is to play according to the team goals. In the Reds instance it will be in using Brandon Philips to pinch hit for the next 2 years.

      • Dan

        On a side note I dont blame BP. From a players perspective. That is his right. Maybe he thinks Cincy is heaven on earth and D.C. is a crack hole? I do at least. Who would seriously want to move to D.C. without a pay raise?

      • TR

        There are nice suburbs around D.C. in Maryland and Northern Virginia.

    • Shchi Cossack

      Quite frankly, if Phillips remains a RedS for 2016, then he SHOULD start at 2B and Peraza should be optioned to AAA for more experience as a top-of-the-lineup hitter. The same goes for Hamilton with some combination of Y-Rod/Cave/Holt in CF and Schebler/Duvall/Holt in LF. With Frazier gone and the entire starting staff and bullpen staff in flux, there is no reason to burn any service-time for players needed after 2016/2017. There’s just not a big difference between finishing 35 games out and 40+ games out.

      Peraza works on his plate discipline at AAA. Hamilton works on hitting the ball somewhere other than in the air at AAA. Winker gains that last stroke needed for major-league readiness and experience playing RF at AAA. Any pitcher that needs to be stretched out to go 200 innings in 2017 starts in AAA. If WJ brings in duds like Marquis and Greeg when the Reds were trying to be competitive in 2015, he can certainly find duds to full out the 2016 rotation and bullpen on the cheap without eating up service time while stretching out starters at the major league level. While we’re at it, does Mesoraco have an option left (sarcasm regarding Meso!)?

      Cozart works on reestablishing his ability to play SS and his offensive credibility before he is traded before the trade deadline. Bruce has a fully healthy knee and reintroduces the baseball to the RF bleachers and the muddy Ohio River before he becomes a pre-trade deadline option. Revisit a trade for Phillips next offseason or prior to the trade deadlinwe if he puts up a numbers in 2016 that are comparable to 2015. Nobody’s at fault for the inability to trade Phillips. It is what it is. If everyone involved simply decides to live with the current situation, so be it.

      Who knows, maybe Duvall, Schebler, Holt or Y-Rod finally step up and produce at the major league level?

  34. TR

    If Phillips won’t ok a trade to the Nationals or any other team and with Suarez and Peraza apparently holding down third and second base respectively, it looks like Brandon will be relegated to a super sub for the next two years.

  35. Hotto4Votto

    The Reds are such a mess. Every move they’ve made since deciding to not trading Chapman at the deadline has been an unmitigated disaster. They really look like buffoons. And if I didn’t care much for Phillps before, this recent episode (of many) has not endeared him anymore. And it’s his “right” to ask for more, but he’s a moron if he doesn’t recognize this is probably the best landing spot for him. The Reds are really doing him a solid by trying to make this happen, even after he’s been largely disrespect to the organization.

    • TR

      Brandon Phillips is far from a moron. This all comes down to business. I’m sure he’s doing what he feels is best for himself and his family in the same way we all do or have done whether we’re dealing in millions or a regular job.

      • jdx19

        The ‘ol “best for his family” argument to a guy with a net worth north of $50M or so.

        He’s trying to get more money so he and his agent can… and it’s a “moral victory” because of the way he feels he was underpaid by the contract he decided to sign of his own volition. It’s all games, and he risks getting nothing and playing on a losing team. BUT, that is certainly his prerogative to do so because of the 10/5 rule.

      • TR

        My apologies to you, JDX19, for mentioning the ‘ol “best for his family” in my comment. I’m sorry it doesn’t meet with your approval.

      • RedAlert

        A contract offered to him BY THE REDS . He will get the 27 million whether it’s with the Reds or someone else, whether he plays on this losing team or not. How is he taking a risk in just by exercising his 10/5 rights to stay with the Reds? They want him to leave on their terms, then ante up (especially regarding deferred money)

      • Jim t

        Using your logic then why don’t Bob C just release him and eat the 27 mil. It’s not like he’ll starve.

      • VaRedsFan

        So in your job you do a fine job, are happy where you are, and you’ve been treated great by your company, and they want you to uproot yourself and family and move halfway across the country. Not as easy as it sounds right?

      • lwblogger2

        Personally, I have an idea of what I’d do in BP’s situation and that’s go play for Dusty and a potential winner in DC. That said I’ve never been in such a position so I can’t know exactly what I’d do. What we need to stop is projecting our feelings on the matter on to BP. We have zero idea as to why he wants to stay. The only one who knows his exact reasons is him.

      • Hotto4Votto

        If it’s a business decision then wouldn’t it be wise to go to the “company” who’s stock isn’t in the tank, where he won’t be playing on a losing team, somewhere that might get some national coverage where he can enhance his stock for his next contract? Maybe go work with someone with whom he’s had a successful working relationship in the past? Go somewhere where he can make a little extra money by having a much better chance at playing in the post season? All of those are solid business decisions.

        Having sour grapes about an original contract he signed, and now trying to leverage his “rights” into more years/money is not sound business practice because now a really great landing spot has walked away from the negotiations. There won’t be a better situation, with a manager who would give him as long a leash, than the one he is currently submarining.

        Paint it whatever way you want, but this is the type of antics that have really soured a good portion of the fan base to him.

        And comparing a regular job to a job playing baseball is just silly.

      • TR

        They are both jobs, HOTTO4VOTTO. There is nothing silly about work.

      • vegastypo

        or, go someplace to reunite with the manager who sat pleased as punch while you berated a reporter with personal as well as professional attacks??

      • Hotto4Votto

        I assure you there would be nothing silly about anyone in a regular job going off half-cocked on a person for bringing up an accurate criticism of their job performance. Or calling their boss a liar publicly. Or throwing their co-workers under the bus.

        But all that is acceptable when you make millions to play a game.

      • Jim t

        You obviously do not deal much in a union environment.

      • VaRedsFan

        The management said there was no money available, then they give Votto 225 million. which side was lying?

      • Chuck Schick

        I’m reasonably sure when the Phillips negotiations were occurring that the Reds knew they were going to need to pay Votto as well…..so saying there was no additional money available was accurate.

      • greenmtred

        Not really sure that there are other instances of this “type of antics.” BP and the Reds are negotiating, sort of,about money. Happens in many businesses and is often not pretty to watch. There is animus toward BP from some quarters, but it seems to me that it stems from a dislike of his style. I’ve never bought the “just bidness” philosophy–seems like a rationale for poor behavior–but in this case the parties involved are all working for their own self-interest. What else is new? Let’s talk about baseball.

  36. thecoastman

    While we have to first recognize the fact that BP has earned this right under the CBA, I could also see this situation getting really ugly, really fast.

    The fan base has been prepped for a complete rebuild with probably at least a couple of 90 plus loss seasons so there is absolutely no pressure on the team to win, only develop the kids for the future. That’s the pressure point in Cincy.

    Sooooo….. if BP or anyone thinks that we are going to regularly play a veteran 2nd baseman that is not part of that future over the next two years they have to be living in an alternate reality. If Peraza truly is that future at 2nd, then we have to give him the lions share of playing time. That shouldn’t even be up for a discussion. Especially when you consider that the clock is already ticking on his service time so there is no way we are not going to park him on the bench as a utility guy for two years and not develop him when the organization sees him as a starter.

    The ugly part comes in when BP realizes that if he wants to play beyond these two years he is going to have to settle for something like a spring training minor league invite situation with another club because he’s been in a utility role for two years and will be entering his age 38 season. I don’t it’s a stretch seeing BP, who loves the dramatics, file a grievance through the players union claiming he is being persecuted for not waiving his trade rights. We may end up settling for 10 or 15 mil anyway so we probably should have paid for that third year ourselves and sent him packing.

    Wow! Sit back, put the popcorn on, and get ready for the show cause it’s gonna be a good one!

    • thecoastman

      Geez, maybe I dropped some some crack in my Wheaties this morning… I meant “there is no way we are going to park him on the bench” rather than “there is no way we are not going to park him on the bench.”

      • VaRedsFan

        Phillips will play 90% of the games at 2nd base as long as he’s healthy.

      • lwblogger2

        True, assuming he’s healthy and relatively productive.

    • Chuck Schick

      Just because one files a grievance, doesn’t mean theres any chance he could win. Playing time is not covered in his contract nor the CBA.

  37. skatedog

    No matter what anyone says, relocating to DC or the East Coast from Cincinnati is a cost of living increase, which means taking a pay cut without a salary increase. So BP would be a moron to move to DC with out fair compensation when he has the right to refuse to move.

    • thecoastman

      When you are set to make 27 Mil over the next two years to argue that point is probably going to fall on deaf ears. As long as he understands that staying in Cincy as a utility player for two years is not going to do much for his earning power past those two years. If he just wants to collect his cash, ride the pines for a couple of years, and then retire he is still a very rich man. The bottom line is that you can’t blame him for wanting to stay in Cincy since he and his entire family are so entrenched in the city. Let’s face it, he’s a King in the Queen City. Fans mob him everywhere he goes and he always gets the biggest applauds by far at Fanfest.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        But, you never let the fans do the talking, dictate the action. You have to do what’s best for the team, to win.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        And, while, in the short term, having BP on the field would provide us the best chance to win, we are in rebuilding mode. We shouldn’t be worrying about winning next season.

  38. BigRedMachine

    Unpopular opinion and I’m sure it won’t happen but as a fan I’d be happy to see BP as a bench warmer. The 2016 season is a lost cause anyway. I’m much more interested in seeing what the Peraza can do.

    I would have told Phillips that straight up–waive the trade clause or accept a bench role. Mr Ego couldn’t have handled that I’m sure.

    Put simply I’m a Reds fan. BP had his moments but the Reds are struggling to rebuild, have been hit with the Chapman mess, and BP is just pilling on right now. I’m done with him and will not root for him for any reason.

    • thecoastman

      The Reds view Peraza as the heir apparent at 2nd base. If Price starts BP, when he is not going to be part of the team in two years, and doesn’t develop Peraza by giving him the experience then he should be fired. If the Reds don’t make Price develop Peraza by giving him the lions share of playing time then Big Bob should fire the entire FO. That would be completely insane. The clocking is ticking on Peraza’s service time. We don’t need to drop him in AAA for two years, where he is already a .300, to satisfy BP’s ego.

      • Shchi Cossack

        “The clocking is ticking on Peraza’s service time” only if he is on the 25-man roster. If he is optioned to AAA, the clock stops until he is promoted to the 25-man roster again.

      • thecoastman

        He was already on the Dodger’s 25 man and spent some time in the bigs… The clock IS ticking….

      • thecoastman

        I do think I stand corrected on this. If he was sent to AAA, as SHCHI says, then he is correct that it would stop his service time.

        But, having said that, you have two years to develop your youngsters to contend, which is the goal of the Reds front office so why would you sit Peraza in AAA when he has already showed that he can handle that pitching by batting over .300. I suppose you could say,”let’s work on his walks for 2 years, but that just seems insane.

      • DEN

        U don’t bench a vet making the money Brandon is, you just don’t.

      • Chuck Schick

        Nothing good can arise from BP being on the roster in 2016. While he probably makes them marginally better next year…..so what? They finish 34 games out with him and 37 games out without him.

        If a trade can’t be worked out then he needs to be released. Playing him does not help the Reds rebuilding process and they have to pay him anyway. When they signed him to this current deal they knew he’d eventually have 10/5 rights and its blown up in their face.

        He’s been a very good player. He was a key contributor to 3 very good teams. At this point, the Reds no longer have a need for BP and they attempted to trade him to a good team, managed by Dusty. One way or another, its time to move on.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        I agree. That’s why I wonder if we can’t simply DFA him. Don’t invite him to any onfield activities, pay him to do that. We need to be concentrating on rebuilding. Costly? Yes, but rebuilding is never easy.

      • CP

        “The Reds view Peraza as the heir apparent at 2nd base.”

        Where did you see this? Most of the analysts said that Peraza is most valuable as a SS, although he could end up sticking at 2b.

  39. UglyStrike

    Seems the deal has pasted us by. Per Big League Stew BP wanted an extension and the Nationals said he was not worth it and backed out of the deal.

  40. Steve Schoenbaechler

    So many thinking they know what went on when in fact none of us really knows what went on. One thing I believe we all can say, though, is something leaked when it shouldn’t have. No one should have known about this until both FO’s knew of BP’s decision.

    Personally and professionally, I think it was absolutely stupid for BP not to take the trade. He would be getting his same contract, possibly a bit more for waiving his NTC. He will be playing for a team that should be in contention. And, he will be playing for a manager I believe he approves of and a manager who approves of him and his antics. Also, playing for a team in contention the next 2 seasons, I believe he would be more likely to be able to sign another contract afterwards for higher money than after playing for us. I mean, with us being in rebuilding mode, also, he’s would most likely not be used nearly as much as he’s been in the past. That means lower numbers, even possibly worse numbers, which is going to hurt his opportunity for higher money later. Baker would write BP in the lineup everyday, with no problem. Which would mean, BP getting more money later would be only up to BP.

    If the Reds FO chooses, couldn’t the Reds do something like DFA BP? I guess it would be equivalent to paying him, just not invite him to any on field activities. If the Reds can do that, though it would cost them financially, I can’t help thinking I would choose that. I can understand if the Reds don’t do that. However, I would have to at least consider that. For, in the “rebuild”, BP isn’t in our consideration. I can’t help thinking I would want to give the players I have “for the rebuild” to get the majority of the playing time. That “could” mean that BP becomes more of a bench commodity. If BP is going to do that, you might as well not even have him out there in my estimation.

    Personally, this is another reason why I wouldn’t have extended BP in the first place several years ago. I believe all of BP’s antics back then were just that, antics, just to make himself more fan friendly and pressure the FO into extending him back then. The only thing wrong with that was, we didn’t have any plan B for 2nd base. If you decide to move ahead without plan A, you have to have a plan B. If no plan B, you have to keep plan A. But, we have a plan B now. So, we don’t need plan A anymore.

    • TR

      If things stay stuck as they are with Phillips, it causes the rebuild to become a reboot. BP will be at second base and Peraza at Louisville for most of 2016 with Peraza called up in September if not sooner. Then in 2017 Peraza will be at second base with BP as the super sub to wind down his Red’s career.

      • ohiojimw

        how did that turn out several years back when somebody claimed on waivers either was 10/5 or had an iron clad no trade clause? I think the no trade held the day. That’s where the Reds would be if they DFA BP

      • lwblogger2

        No, the Reds could DFA him but they still would need to pay him, including deferred money as stipulated in the contract. DFA BP doesn’t do the Reds any good. Just opens up a spot on the roster and the Reds get no return. Honestly, if that’s the only option, I keep him and play him.

      • ohiojimw

        That’s basically what I meant. If no trade blocks waiver claims, all they could accomplish with DFA is throw $27M to the winds….

      • lwblogger2

        The no trade is out the window if he’s released. The Reds are on the hook for the money and he immediately becomes a free agent.

        Home from work due to a nasty cold so not much else to do but baseball stuff.

      • ohiojimw

        I think we are saying the same thing, no way the Reds escape paying the $27M if he goes DFA. I find that I am enjoying being home from work doing this every day since I retired 🙂

      • lwblogger2

        Yeah, retirement sounds pretty good. I think I’m 15 years away though.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        The thing is, if we DFA him, then he isn’t playing, hardly anyone will be looking at him after that time. So, his extension after that becomes a bust. But, if we DFA him then someone picks him up, aren’t they on the hook for the salary?

        And, still, either way, we are able to concentrate on the rebuild. With BP active, we can’t fully consider a rebuild.

      • ohiojimw

        On the salary, the only way the Reds dump the salary on an DFA is with a waiver claim or trade. Nobody is going to claim him on waivers and take on the remaining salary (and pending deferred money), especially given they can have him for the minimum salary (with the Reds paying off the contract) once he cleared waivers.

        Basically the Reds are on the hook for 100% of the salary and deferred money unless they can trade BP.

  41. WVRedlegs

    I am sure one side of this is $$$ for BP. But there might be another aspect here too. BP loses his 10/5 rights once the trade is approved. Washington has made many trades over the course of a few years, some with vets. Maybe BP was trying to negotiate a no-trade clause or list along with some cash considerations. The Reds didn’t have the authority to negotiate any of the no trade stuff, and Washington balked at granting that to BP. Stalemate. There might not have been anything the Reds could have done.

    • ohiojimw

      The Washington Post is still maintaining deferred money already in the contract was big the issue. Here’s the link via MLBTR:

      http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/12/washington-nationals-brandon-phillips-desmond.html

      ***********************************************************

      I’ve often wondered how those things worked. I always figured that the individual payments were the ultimately the responsibility of the team the player was playing for when the money was earned though I’ve never been able to confirm that; and if so, do they pass the money on to the team receiving the player in a trade or hold it and pay the player years later when it is due?

      Then there is the whole issue of interest which I have read is most often attached to such payments. Wonder if the news this week that the Federal Reserve Bank is embarking on a course of raising interest rates gave BP’s financial folks to seek some adjustment there?

      • vegastypo

        Wasn’t that discussed also when the subject of possibly trading Bronson Arroyo came up a few years ago? That there was an issue of deferred money that had to be paid off right away, or some such?

      • ohiojimw

        Might have been. I did a little bit of Googling and reading after I made this comment. To my surprise, it turns out that apparently responsibility for all deferred payments, including those already “earned”, travel with the contract unless otherwise arranged.

        So, it is likely the Reds and Phillips could not reach a payoff settlement. This could have been (very)serious money depending how much was deferred. the interest rate, and the future payment schedule. For example, the Bobby Bonilla deferred payments contract which came to much public attention over the summer will end up paying him around $40M on an originally deferred amount of $5M according to what a read last night (the APR is 8% over the entire term).

  42. DEN

    We will never know the full details of what happened behind closed doors, but what we do know is if this deal couldn’t get done then the odds of him ever being traded are pretty slim, and if healthy he will be the Reds starting 2ND baseman for every game until his contract is up because he is Brandon Phillips and he is a fan favorite and owed to much money to be a role player.

  43. seat101

    I’m willing to bet that Phillips and or his agents did not put in the contract the ability to collect all deferred payments upon being traded.

    Additionally, there might be a clause in the contract which specifically says that no early payments will be made if the player is traded.

    • ohiojimw

      I’m thinking with interest rates being what they are, he could be locked in at a better rate than his people figure they could earn on a flat payout of earned income and currently accrued interest.

      • Chuck Schick

        Without knowing the terms of his deferral agreement its impossible to speculate. In the real world, most deferred compensation is tied to a flat interest rate, a stock-bond index or is actually invested and garners a market return/loss. The business has an obligation to pay out the compensation, but its stays an assets of the business and can be lost in case of bankruptcy. A person who is owed deferred compensation is an unsecured creditor.

        Under the CBA, a large portion of any deferred salary needs to be paid into escrow each year so the return possibility is limited…but the risk is limited. Current salary and deferred salary funding is very heavily regulated by MLB and the MLBPA.

        When the AZ Diamondbacks were on the verge of bankruptcy in 2002, baseball and the union began to work towards regulating and to a degree minimizing deferred compensation. The Union wanted 100% certainty that the players would get paid and MLB didn’t want teams making outsized promises to players that some subsequent owner would need to deal with 20 years in the future.

        The Bonilla situation is a bit of an outlier because it was agreed to before many of the current escrow rules were created and the Mets made return assumptions consistent with the returns they earned from their Madoff Investments….which were…shall we say….”not realistic.”

      • ohiojimw

        Agree with most of this based on what I read up on last night.

        Deferred contracts were becoming somewhat common until the underside started to be really understood by both the leagues and players.
        I found that 25% of book salary is the maximum deferment allowed in the NBA now; but, I did not find a % figure for MLB .

        It would be interesting to know how much of the $27M owed to Phillips for 2016/17 is present value and how much is future value; and, how this played into the recent situation.

      • Chuck Schick

        Jim,

        I think the Scherzer contract is a good guide. On the surface, it’s 7 years-210 million….so an average of 30 million per year. In reality, he’s being paid, 15 million per year over the next 14 years. 50% is deferred, but there is no growth assumption….he just taking half the money, spread out over twice the time over a concurrent period.

        Had he deferred the 50% over a longer, non-concurrent period, then the Nats would’ve been forced to escrow most of the deferred money over the first 7 years……not benefitting them since their cash outlay is roughly the same….and minimizing the benefit to Scherzer since escrow money usually doesn’t grow or has severe investment limitations.

        A mere guess, but BP has a 6 year, 72.5 millionish deal (can’t recall the exact amount)….its possible, or even likely that he gets something like 8 million per year now and 4 million per year over for the next 6 years after the contract. Assuming thats the case (again, i’m making stuff up), and working under the premise that he accepted the deferrals to better enable the Reds to both pay him his market worth and compete, I could see where he would want the 16 million thats been deferred thus far to be accelerated.

      • ohiojimw

        Chuck, That much money sitting around in “escrow” would be making a pretty penny or three for somebody 🙂

  44. Trey

    If Castellini can’t afford the players to win a World Series then maybe he should sell the team instead of getting rid of all the talent and charging me 10 times the price it cost me to watch the same subpar players in Louisville.

    • Chuck Schick

      If it were simply a money issue, then wouldn’t the Dodgers have won last year? How come the Yankees have only 1 WS title in the past 15 years when they’ve spent almost twice as much as anyone else over that period?

      The Red Sox had a top 5 payroll and bottom 5 production….how could that be? From 2002-2010, the Twins were in the playoffs almost every year and spent well below the league average…..how could that be?Perhaps I missed where the Royals, Astros, Pirates and Cardinals were huge spenders. The Reds increased payroll by 50% from 2012-2015. They are middle of the pack in payroll and closer to bottom of the pack in revenue.

      Do you think the owners of successful teams consistently add their personal assets into the team’s coffers to subsidize payroll? Do they treat their teams as some charitable enterprise designed to make the fans happy? Does Bill DeWitt write the Cardinals a check every March? Did George Steinbrenner have the Yankees direct debit his checking account? While owners periodically make capital investments into their teams, no one consistently subsidizes payroll. It makes no baseball sense and is reckless and irresponsible in the long run.

      The Cubs dropped payroll dramatically from 2012-2014 and invested the profits in development and retained earnings for when that spending would make a difference. Perhaps they knew what they were doing.

      The Reds suck and deserve criticism for the decisions that led to their demise, but lack of money and lack of spending have little to nothing to do with their current situation.

    • DEN

      It cost just a few dollars more, how do u come up with 10x?

  45. ohiojimw

    Here is a glass half full take on the BP situation. For years folks have been saying he should be held out a couple of days a week to help keep him healthy and fresh because he still produces well when he isn’t dinged up.

    So now still having BP to mix and match with Peraza and whomever else, the Reds have the best of two worlds by having BP share time. The young guy gets the work he needs without getting totally worn down; and, BP should be at his best playing 3 or 4 days a week. The only down side is that the Reds don’t get to purge the $27M off the books.

    • CP

      I mean, I could care less about helping BP out. The positive side to me is twofold:

      1. Everything I’ve read indicates Peraza is going to play SS, not 2B. He didn’t play SS consistently in the minors, partially due to Corey Seager. Now, he can get some consistent work at SS in the minors before he gets called up.

      He has been rushed through the minors anyway, so time spent down working on things isn’t a negative anyway.

      2. The other advantage of starting Peraza at SS in the minors is that Cozart can rebuild some value. He’d be fairly attractive if he shows he is healthy and hasn’t lost a step. Alternatively, if he has lost a step, it justifies moving him to 2B/3B at some point.

      • ohiojimw

        Jocketty seemed to be hedging about where Peraza would play this year; but, I thought he was hinting at it (eventually) being SS too. The way the Reds org seems to operate, they will probably want to showcase Peraza to fans immediately as the top of the card return on Frazier unless they get somebody better in a subsequent deal.

      • earmbrister

        CP — I’m not reading what you are if you’re saying that Peraza is going to play SS, not 2B. The attempted trade of BP was made specifically in order to get Peraza on the field immediately. He switched positions in the minors due to Simmons in Atlanta, not due to Seager (he was only a Dodger for two months). He played more innings at SS than any other position in the minors: 1758 innings at SS, 1747 at 2B, and 161 in CF, so I don’t know how you can say he didn’t play SS consistently in the minors. Yes, he last played SS extensively in 2013, but I’m sure one spring training would easily re-acclimate him to his natural position.

        Peraza wasn’t rushed through the minors, he flew through the minors due to his results. His 2014 slash in A+, and AA was .339/.364/.441. Thus he was promoted to AAA at the young age of 21, where he still produced at a .293/.316/.378 clip. After spending a full year in AAA, with a September callup, exactly what else does he need to work on in AAA? Walking more?

        Cozart will be the opening day SS in Cincy, barring some unforeseen injury/reinjury. His rehab is going great, and WJ has already declared Suarez the starting 3B man.
        Cozart’s bat only plays at SS; definitely not at 3B.

      • CP

        “After spending a full year in AAA, with a September callup, exactly what else does he need to work on in AAA? Walking more?”

        Hitting better? A 79 wRC+ in AAA doesn’t exactly scream success at the MLB level. If that means working a little on approach and walking more, yeah, do that.

      • CP

        Eh I guess that was just his Dodgers split. He’s got plenty to work on if he wants to succeed in the MLB. I still think the Reds are better off if he can play SS. Suarez is better suited to play 2B long term, although I think he’s okay at SS. Cozart isn’t in this team’s future plans, so why would they move Suarez over to 3B, as they’ve already indicated they plan on doing?

      • earmbrister

        The 79 wRC+ you refer to was in a whopping 22 games with the LAD AAA team, so you are touting a really small sample size, while ignoring the bulk of the year. In 96 games with the Braves AAA team he had a 97 wRC+, or just about average.

        In 2014 he had a wRC+ of 129 in A+ ball, and a wRC+ of 121 in AA.

        If Phillips remains in Cincy, Peraza will then probably start in AAA, instead of the quicker MLB role envisioned by the FO. However, this will be more about him playing everyday vs having a compelling need to work on his hitting. The Reds were seemingly comfortable with him working on his hitting while starting in MLB during what will be a non-competitive 2016 for the team.

      • earmbrister

        Didn’t see your correction CP. I don’t see Cozart anywhere but at SS, he simply doesn’t hit enough to be elsewhere, esp. at 3B.

        If BP stays, the infield will be:

        Votto, BP at 2B, Cozart at SS, Suarez at 3B

        If BP goes:

        Votto, Peraza at 2B, Cozart at SS, Suarez at 3B

        With Frazier gone, the Reds really need Cozart’s glove at SS, otherwise it could be a real train wreck in 2016. The bonus is if Cozart has a good year, he can be dealt in July or next winter. However, if both BP and Cozart go, who is going to be your 4th infielder? Blandino needs to prove a lot more before he can be counted on as a starter in MLB.

  46. desertred

    The older Phillips becomes, the more valuable he becomes in his own mind. What a joke. Hope Price sits him for half the games to let one of the youngsters get playing time. This team is going to lose 90 games again. No point in giving Phillips playing time. No point helping him increase his value for when he leaves. Screw dat dude.

    • RedAlert

      He won’t be sittin’ anywhere close to half the games, nor should he . Placing the blame on him for this situation is ludicrous .

    • thecoastman

      The most important part of this situation is that we shouldn’t be blaming BP because he loves the city and has earned 10/5 rights. He’s merely exercising those rights so we shouldn’t hold that against him. We should also keep in mind that he is our 2nd base all time leader in just about every statistical category possible. He is a Reds HOF hands down so we should temper our comments, as hard as it is, about him being a “you know what.” That would include my own initial reactions so I am starting by giving myself a gut check.

      Now….. having said that. Heyman is reporting that the sticking point for the Reds was the deferred money, which you would think should have been easily resolved since we are dumping tons of salary. Just my opinion…. The sticking point for the Nats, according to Heyman, is that BP wanted another year tacked on, which, quite frankly, is an historically common request for players that waive their no trade rights. What he wanted for that third year is unknown, but I can’t imagine it wasn’t close to the amount he’s making the next two years. The Nats apparently didn’t want any part of that.

      Purely my own speculation on this, but if the Reds and Nats expected BP to just uproot his life, where he has been a King in the Queen City for his entire career, with little to no compensation then they are the ones that are completely unrealistic. I’m sure there is more to all of this and we will certainly find out in due time I suppose.

      Now, having said all of that, we have an obligation to develop the young players. The FO office has stated the goal of being competitive again in a 2 to 3 year window. You are not going to pull that off by playing guys that are veterans and will be gone in two years and then trying to break in a new infield. That leaves the FO in a real quandary. So speculate all you want, but this is why I think things have the potential to get really ugly, really fast.

      • TR

        I would say the Reds and their fan base are shocked, to say the least, in the implosion of the announced (pending) trades of Chapman and Phillips. Who knows what is coming as we get closer to spring training.

      • Chuck Schick

        Its only ugly if the Reds allow that to occur. If a trade can’t be worked out then you simply release him. You have to pay him anyway and having him on the roster hurts you more than it helps.

        BP had the right to say no to the trade. The Reds have the right to release him. BP has zero long term value to a re-building team…none. It would take 400,000 fans to not attend games entirely based on BP not being the roster to impact the Reds financially. This is not a very complicated issue.

      • ohiojimw

        CP noted above that having BP would allow them to hold Peraza back a AAA. That’s potentially a baseball and financial value, especially if they see Peraza long term as a SS versus 2B.

      • lwblogger2

        I agree with OhioJimW here. I think releasing him is not the right move.

    • DEN

      If healthy he will play almost everyday and should, you play your best players

  47. TR

    You make a good point. The Reds have usually been strong at shortstop. I remember Eddie Miller in the 1940’s: a slick fielder although not too much with the bat. It will be interesting how this works out with Peraza and Phillips.

  48. ArtWayne

    Quick solution to Phillips-Peraza dilemma: Peraza needs the experience at 2nd and the Reds need a left-fielder. Peraza plays 2nd and Phillips left-field. Problem solved!

    • vegastypo

      I laughed when I read this, then thought, what the heck? If Brandon wants to stick around, turn him into a super-utility player. If he doesn’t like that idea, maybe he’ll reconsider his demands for accepting a trade. He’s always prided himself on being a team player, so here is his chance. …

  49. james garrett

    The Reds will work Pereza in next year some how some way and probably at BP’S expense either because he is injured or because of his performance.Steve provided the stats that show he is a singles hitter that doesn’t walk which to date is what Pereza has shown to be.Pereza at 21 has an upside and BP doesn’t so if you are the Reds and you are rebuilding you go with Pereza.

    • Fish

      Makes sense, I can understand the Indians’ hesitance to trade Salazaar for Frazier, but if they aren’t going to trade Zimmer or Frazier, why would the reds do that deal? While I thought the White Sox deal was a little light, Peraza is still a close to the majors bat who will contribute and Schebler at least has good power. The Indians really don’t have anything exciting from the hitting side outside of Zimmer & Frazier.

      I don’t quite understand Cody Allen unless the reds intended to flip him for more bats.

      • Steve Mancuso

        I’m going with the theory they were trying to flip Cody Allen. Any other explanation would be unbearable.

  50. reds4life

    Ummm…I think Phillips will be traded in the end, however we’ll still have an overpaid 31 year old Cozart at short who can pick it but will never hit it…I know everyone got all excited and was fumbling over themselves with his power numbers early…but his average was on the decline back to where it normally is…he dropped from .300 to .253 in just a few weeks…I know we don’t expect them to compete for a Championship next season but to field a competitive team as much as possible. What line-up can afford a Cozart-Hamilton and Bruce black hole? We’re not going to trade Flash Gordon as young as he is although they should quit switch-hitting him…Bruce, I don’t think anyone would trade for that production with that price tag unless they needed an outfielder and the AAA team plane crashed and burned..so he’s not going anywhere…Cozart’s glove makes him a commodity. Suarez was better the last two months with the glove and wait…oh, yeah he can actually hit pretty consistently…I hope Cozart has a great Spring and when they leave Goodyear for Cincinnati, Cozart has a ticket to another city…

    • Carl Sayre

      I am concerned about Cozart coming back from the injury but I can’t call him overpaid because we don’t know what his salary will be. I don’t see him having any leverage in arbitration without anything to look at. A modest 5 percent raise and he is no way overpaid because of his glove if it returns. I like Suarez and he must play but I missed the “better” the last 2 months you saw and his season BA dropped to where he is likely to hit consistently. Cozart at .225 and Suarez at .265 maybe .275 only make sense to me if you get a substantial return for Cozart. I have no confidence in Suarez glove work but that does not seem to be a widely held opinion. so him at 3rd and Cozart at SS. The more likely will be Suarez at SS and Cozart at 3rd because the most likely affect to Cozart will be mobility and range.

  51. WVRedlegs

    Just last month the Indians released 3B Chris Johnson, owing him $17.5M.
    Last year the Braves released 2B Dan Uggla, owing him $19M.
    There is no way Brandon Phillips should be on the Reds 2016 roster and in that lockerroom with such a young team.

    With that said, The Reds went into this off-season planning on trading BP. They knew about the deferred money. Why they didn’t have all the details with BP worked out prior to the Winter Meetings is totally beyond me. This is mismanagement and malfeasance of duty at the highest degree. Why they didn’t have their ducks all lined up and ready to go when they hit Nashville speaks loudly to the amature-hour nature that is the Reds front office.

      • Adam M. Singhoff

        Lol. I think you mean amateur-hour, not amatuer. At least get it right if you’re going to correct someone’s spelling.

      • Adam M. Singhoff

        I’m joking with my own misspelling btw. Just find it funny when people correct other’s spellings and grammar on blogs.

    • Chuck Schick

      How exactly would they line everything up with BP before they had a dealing place? Do you think BP would sign off on a trade before he knew where he was going and whether the other team would be willing to add years or modify the deferral agreement? Why would the Reds preemptively be willing to change his contract before they knew if he was even tradeable or what they could get back?

      • WVRedlegs

        It is part of being prepared. Something that is foreign to WJ, and now Williams. Having an open line of communication with the player. Again another foreign concept to WJ. They had discussions with other teams at the GM meetings in November. Why not be prepared for December?? As soon as talks started with Washington, they should have had BP already informed, and then got the ball rolling with his agent and his issues with deferred money or whatever they are.
        The Reds were poorly prepared for the Chapman trade, and now show they were poorly prepared for the BP trade.
        For an off-season that was such ballyhooed for its rebuilding, the Reds front office seemed very ill-prepared to handle such an endeavor.

      • Chuck Schick

        Ok, lets assume that in early November the Reds had called BP and his agent and said “We’re rebuilding and we want to move you…what would it take for you to agree?” Why would BP answer that question?

        He has all the leverage…why wouldn’t he wait to see what deal the Reds could make and what the other team was willing to do? He and the Reds aren’t partners. He doesn’t care about whats in the Reds best interest. He knows he has the right to say no and he would be limiting his options by preemptively laying out what he would agree to in order to accept a trade. For all he knows, theres a team so desperate for a 2nd baseman that they might be willing to do more than he wanted.

        From the Reds perspective, if they have that conversation and he says I want all my deferred money upfront and 3 years at 15 million added to my deal. No team is going to do that so theres no point in even attempting a trade.

        Instead, they reached a deal with the team that likely had the best possibility of BP saying yes. The Reds have no leverage either way….their best change is to offer the most attractive situation for BP possible and hope his ancillary demands are within reason. It didn’t work out and theres nothing they could’ve done to change that.

      • Hotto4Votto

        But if the hang up is on adding years to his contract, there’s nothing to do to prepare for that other than telling the other team upfront. At that point it depends on the other team’s willingness to add on years. It was the reason the trade to the Yankees for Gardner ended up not working out, because Phillips wanted an extension added. If that’s the case, I don’t see a team going for it, and the Reds will be stuck with him. And it would have nothing to do with preparedness. If it were just about working out some financial compensation, I would have to think it would be worth it to Reds to not look so incompetent, and they’d have made the money work.

        I’m not defending the Reds FO. There is clearly communications issues. Between Skipworth finding out he was being sent down from a Tweet, to Cueto being told by Lorenzen that he was getting traded, and then not getting traded, and then finally being traded, to not knowing about the Chapman situation, to this most recent deal. The Reds are a mess.

  52. Redsman

    Yeah, but Chuck, the Reds KNOW that BP scuttled a previous deal with the Yankees…so why waste time trying to deal him? Just put him on waivers or DFA…whatever. I think that’s what WV is saying. Stop spinning our wheels and move on. Is there any possibility someone won’t pick him up? Seems unlikely to me. Perhaps the Reds even have to eat some of his salary…so what?
    Get this rebuild/reboot/salary dump, whatever you want to call it into full swing.
    As I am writing this, MLB network discussing this issue…according to them no trade forthcoming. Find a way to get him off our roster!

    • Chuck Schick

      Why would they waive him and eat 27 million in salary without trying to trade him first? They reached a deal with a contending team, managed by someone who BP theoretically would want to play for. A trade to Washington was the Reds best possibility to move him without having to eat 27 million dollars. Why wouldn’t they at least attempt to do that? They can just as easily waive him now …a month from now…. or in the middle of the season as they could’ve 4 weeks ago.

      What if the second baseman for a contending team breaks his leg opening Christmas presents and now a desperate team is willing to re-work BP’s deal? At this point, BP is an asset that “could” have value…once they waive him he’s 27 million dollars down the drain. Why wouldn’t they at least try?

      I agree that he needs to go before the season starts. The Reds have time to see if anything changes that would make moving him possible. They have to pay him one way or another so just moving on and removing the possibility of getting something makes no sense.

      • WVRedlegs

        I wasn’t saying to waive BP early in the off-season. I am with you that the Reds should get whatever they can for BP in a trade. And like you say, Washington was the best landing spot for BP and he has nixed that. The LAA may be the only other spot available needing a 2B, they don’t seem too interested in BP and that might even be mutual.
        So, now I am saying that releasing BP may be an inevibility. The Reds have time and can wait it it out. But they shouldn’t shy away from this option. And they shouldn’t wait until after spring training starts. When Feb. 15 rolls around, and BP is still a Red, then the front office can grow some stones and release BP and take the $27M hit. At least it is spread out over 2 seasons.
        Now BP has to ask one question of himself. Does BP want to go out this way? A team willing to pay a player $27M to go away sure has a lot of negative connotation to it that BP may not want to have attached to him.

      • sixpacktwo

        The Reds will never , and I say never waive him, as that would be just plane stupid. If nothing else he slows down the new players major time. injuries happen and some Team in the play off hunt will make the move and Phillips by that time we get tired of losing games or sitting.

      • TR

        If Phillips and the Reds cannot reach a rapprochement regarding a trade by the start of the season, then I think BP will be released. A financial hit for sure but better that than have a once key unhappy player on the roster who is not part of the rebuilding process.

      • Kacat

        Kind of dumb just to eat 27 million. Makes absolutely zero sense. He is an asset worth some return if traded or he is a player that people like to watch if he stays. Cincy made the dumb deal to sign him to a contract into his 38th year so it’s on them not B Phillips. If he stays with the team and ends his career then blame Walt for making another in a long line of dumb decisions with contracts. But simply eating 27 million is flat out dumb.

      • Steve Mancuso

        The really questionable part of it was not trading him before his 10/5 rights kicked in. Tried to do that, but wouldn’t take offers they thought were too low at the time. That may have been the owner’s decision, or the GM. Maybe didn’t want to look like they were giving Phillips away. Now it’s going to be a huge drag on the franchise unless Phillips changes his demands.

      • Chuck Schick

        Steve,

        I believe this is another example of putting “The Fans” ahead of
        “The Product.”

        Obviously they knew that BP would eventually land in 10/5 territory and would be extremely difficult to impossible to move. To BP’s credit, his production is consistent with the dollars paid, but anytime you give the player 100% of the leverage you need to hope everything goes perfectly. Had they moved on from BP in the past, we likely would have seen a Frazier like firestorm of criticism and angst.

        One of the things I admire about the Cardinals is that DeWitt takes a fair amount of heat for not spending as much as they could and he simply doesn’t care. Tom Ricketts was vilified in Chicago and he didn’t care. Bob C seems to want to please the fans to the long term detriment of the team.

      • Steve Mancuso

        With Castellini also think it’s the family, insider-friendly organization. Hire friends. Hire sons. Promote from inside. Bring in former players. Schumaker, Marquis. Re-sign own players. All part of the Reds way, for better or worse.

      • ohiojimw

        Two points here. BP had limited no trade rights in the contract before he reached 10/5. That’s how he blocked the Yankee deal, not with 10/5. So, the Reds options to trade him were restricted.

        If they DFA him they figure to eat the entire $27M because a waiver claim does not override no trade rights even if a team was foolish enough to claim him instead of waiting till he had been released/ declared a FA.

  53. lwblogger2

    Steve, it’s my understanding that he had a limited no-trade clause in his contract and that played into not moving him before his 10/5 rights kicked in. The Reds were also still trying to compete so maybe they were asking for too much of a return. No matter, it’s in the past now. The question now is what to so with him? Keep him or release him at the start of the season?

  54. Chuck Schick

    If the Reds enter 2016 with the firm objective that 2016 wins are secondary to development and they have a player(s) whom they deem as a possible long term second baseman, then eating BP’s money is the cost of doing business (assuming he won’t accept a trade).

    Its difficult to imagine that BP would be happy as a back up and players who call the owner a liar in public tend to not make the best mentors. I doubt Bob C is looking to do BP any favors at this point. He would make the Reds better in 2016, but if the 2-4 incremental wins he would produce are less important than providing playing times to the eventual long term replacement then he has no value to the club. An angry 35 year old player…however productive he may be….who won’t be around when you’re competitive again …is an impediment to long term success.

    • ohiojimw

      Your perception is that BP would be angry and subversive? Why?

      As a guy who recently retired after giving about 6 months notice of the date, I found myself very satisfied, happy even, to be stepping back and letting others start to take over my duties. In fact I was probably more aggravated when the folks taking over were slow to step up than by having them step up and take full responsibilities.

      BP is on the record that this is his last contract. If that is how he truly feels, might not he be thinking more like I just described I was as retirement approached?

      • thecoastman

        Keep in mind that he wanted the Nats to tack on another year so he must be rethinking the “this is my retirement contract” talk he was spouting off with before he signed his contract.

  55. Chuck Schick

    Jim,

    In general, i don’t think professional athletes view the end of their careers in the same way normal people do. My guess is you’re in your late 50’s-mid 60’s and spent 40 years going to work every day. I hope you loved your career, but I doubt any professional athlete would trade his job for yours….or mine….or any non-athletes, rock star or movie star.

    I’m generalizing, but my guess is your job didn’t cause the masses to adore you, have thousands follow your day to day interactions on twitter and have scores of people waiting in the parking lot for a picture or autograph. You didn’t eat for free at the best restaurants and have scores of people fluffing your ego every day. Its difficult…almost impossible to replicate the day to day adrenaline associated with being a tenured baseball player….let alone the cash.

    Like many athletes, BP seems to have an outsized ego…seems to love adulation and seems capable of obnoxious behavior when the mood strikes him. My guess is no matter how productive you were, had you called your boss a liar in the company newsletter then you would’ve been fired…..rather quickly.

    In my opinion, his ego isn’t consistent with that of someone who is willing to sit back and watch another player take his job for the sake of whats in the best long term interest of the team. Especially, given the fact, that he is likely a far better player at this point than whomever would replace him.

    The Reds acted in their long term self interest in making a trade….they also showed an element of respect and appreciation by trying to send him to a contending team and the ability to reunite with his former manager.

  56. james garrett

    We seem to have our share of the unusual with the Chappy situation and now the BP trade or no trade.Guess we kind of deserve both because its not like we didn’t have chances to trade both long before this turned into a circus.

  57. WVRedlegs

    Putting the GM hat on today.
    Making the assumptions that the Chapman and BP trades will eventually go through.
    I am going to go out and get with Seattle’s new GM, Jerry DiPoto. They have a crowded OF now. I am going to come away with OF Seth Smith to play LF for the Reds in 2016. Smith is LH hitter, good vs. RH pitchers. Reds need a LH hitter. He is a doubles machine, sort of like Votto. Good plate discipline. His ISO will increase at GABP over Safeco Field. He will be 33 when season starts. He is signed for 2016 ($6.8M) with a team option for 2017 ($7M, 200k buyout).
    This will give the Reds an opportunity to work in Duvall and YorRod vs. LH pitchers.
    This also gives the Reds time at AAA to see what they have in Scott Schebler. If Winker and Schebler progress rapidly at AAA, then Smith can always be Epstein flipped at the July trade deadline. And if both won’t be ready, exercise the 2017 option on Smith and he can be traded sometime in 2017.
    Getting Smith also might allow the Reds front office to trade for a good quality prospect(s) at the lower minors levels in the Chapman and BP trades, instead of trying for near ready players.
    Smith would be a good player to put in LF and is also a good insurance policy for LF.
    Keep Jay Bruce in RF. Don’t rush this decision to trade him.
    Have to find a young 3B somewhere now. Maybe that comes in a Chapman or BP trade. The search is on.
    Peraza>Smith>Votto>Mesoraco>Bruce>3B open>Suarez>Pitcher>BHam has the potential to be pretty decent offesively in a rebuild year.

    • WVRedlegs

      I forgot all about Cave, but I’d still look into getting Smith.

  58. Chris Miller

    The conclusion on the second thought is just downright crazy. You imply he doesn’t love Cincy, and that it’s really about the money. You seem to misunderstand that one can love something, or some place, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be convinced to move on. The conclusion is real clear. BP DOES love Cincy, and for him to leave it’s going to take a lot on incentive. If that wasn’t the case, he would have already moved on to go play with Dusty who he likes a lot. The fact is, this team is going to be horrible, so for BP to stay here, clearly it means he loves the city.

    • TR

      I think Brandon Phillips will waive his no trade clause if he gets the deferred money from the Reds and an extension from the team he’s traded to.

  59. Ken Goldsberry

    The Nationals sign Daniel Murphy to a 2 year deal today. I think we can put to rest any possibility of Phillips going to Washington to rest.