Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the Reds have traded Aroldis Chapman to the Los Angeles Dodgers for two prospects. No word yet on specific names coming back to the Reds.

135 Responses

  1. Hotto4Votto

    I am hoping for at least one position player coming back, preferably one that can hit. But I’ve been waiting for that for about 6 months. Anxious to see who we get.

    • Michael_Øk

      Hopefully one of LA’s top-3 prospects are apart of it, but reports are indicating that it’s unlikely.

      • Hotto4Votto

        I’m hoping for Peraza and Holmes. That may be asking a lot. But we know the Reds’ price was high. If not Holmes then another position player. I would be happy if they were taking Pederson, and a lower prospect, but he’s not a prospect and it’s unlikely even after his late season slump.

      • Michael_Øk

        I know a lot of people are saying that the Reds may be overvaluing Chapman, but I am cringing to think that we just gave away (arguably) the most dominant closer in all of baseball for two sub-par prospects. I have optimism in our new GM, and Jocketty has pulled a rabbit out of his hat before… let’s hope this is one of those moments.

        With that said, this could be a blow to the Reds if we didn’t hear out other teams like the Astros who could have paid up more. I suppose we’ll have to wait until the prospects’ names are announced. But no, I don’t think that what you’re hoping for is “a lot” in retrospective.

      • redmountain

        I think history may show that Pederson is a cross between Bruce and Dunn. No thanks. OBP

      • CP

        Dunn & Bruce produced 37.7 WAR between them for the Reds. If you trade a closer with 1 year remaining on his contract and obtain guys either a Dunn or Bruce back, you have made a fantastic trade.

      • Bill Lack

        They’ve already said it’s not one of the Dodgers 3 Crown jewels..

  2. David

    “Jon Heyman of CBS Sports tweets that none of Julio Urias, Corey Seager or Jose De Leon are headed to the Reds in the trade.”

    I think we all knew that, but there is always hope!

    • Joe McManus

      Well shucks. Maybe Holmes and Verdugo? They’re both pretty young though. Maybe Tony Kemp is involved.

  3. Joe McManus

    I’m hoping for Verdugo and De Leon. That’s probably more than we got, but I can dream until we find out.

  4. MrRed

    MLB.com confirming this report as well.

  5. gaffer

    If it is not one of Seager or Urias, then I am going to be disappointed. Most likely this is the case. The Dodgers hitting prospects are not exciting (Peraza is OK but has no power). They have good pitchers, but geeze that is not enough. I really wonder if they had a better offer last year.

    • Tommy Tom

      Why disappointed, u will not get the world for Chapman for 1 yr control. The expectations have to be realistic.

      • gaffer

        You are not wrong, but we turned down 4 prospects from Boston. Last year we had good offers from Astros and D’backs. Its more opportunity cost I am lamenting.

  6. WVRedlegs

    My guess is Pederson and Holmes.

    • gaffer

      Pederson is not a prospect, so that would mean the story is wrong.

      • WVRedlegs

        Verdugo is 3-4 years away. Holmes is 2+ years away. Pederson is their only MLB ready bat just about with the exception of maybe Schebler.

      • redmountain

        And Peraza who hit .290 in AAA last year. Wish he would walk more but is pretty universally seen as a top flight prospect. He also is a burner so maybe he could hit lead-off.

    • Hotto4Votto

      That would be great! But is Pederson a prospect? The report said prospect, so based on that I am guessing he’s not involved.

  7. Tommy Tom

    All reports have said it will NOT be one of their higher grade prospects so whoever is dreaming Seager or any of that QUIT and be realistic.

    • TC

      Hearing Grant Holmes. He would immediately be the Reds #3 top prospect.

  8. jdx19

    I’ve never understood why partial trades are announced, rather than either waiting for everything to be worked out OR just releasing all the info at the same time.

    Even if there are several prospects the Dodgers offered and the Reds can “pick two,” you’d think that would be a fast process. I’m sure the Reds have every other team’s prospects ranked already. Take the two you like the best.

    • Hotto4Votto

      Yeah, just like the Cueto deal from the summer, it’s a lot of hurry up and wait. My refresh button is likely to get worn out today.

    • ohiojimw

      Waiting for courtesy calls to get made to players and or their agents? Maybe one is easy to reach and tells somebody which helps to get the snowball rolling downhill. Or another team is told, the ship has sailed and it gets leaked that way.

      Regardless, this won’t be official pending physicals which could take a while.

      • jdx19

        That actually makes a lot of sense! Finding out via Twitter or ESPN would be rough.

        Don’t need another Skipworth/Mesoraco/Rosecrans/Price situation (I think it was Skipworth, right?).

      • ohiojimw

        Exactly. Yeah, it was Skipworth as I recall too. I’ve always figured that a big reason Price went bonkers on that was because it was on him to have told Skipworth for whatever reason he had put it off.

  9. Jeremy Conley

    What if the Dodgers end up getting the est starting pitcher afterall? They lost out on Price and Greinke, but they might just be smart enough to start Chapman.

    • ManuelT

      It’ll happen. Not all teams have some self-defeating desire to squander top-flight talent. Or believe that all fans will buy a stupid, “He said he prefers to be a closer”, story. That was just cover for their (Baker?) own desires. Sorry, we’d like to accommodate our fans but, see, he’d rather be a closer.

  10. doublenohitter

    I wonder if Kiki Hernandez is part of the deal? He beat up on the Reds when they faced the Dodgers.

  11. TC

    Some of the names coming up as a potential return for Chapman… ummmm wow.

    • JoshG

      is that a good “wow”? or a Bad “wow”?

      • TC

        Grant Holmes wow. Yeah. That would be awesome.

      • WVRedlegs

        Holmes would give the Reds another potential #1- #2 starter, to go with Stephenson, Cody Reed, Travieso, and Garrett.
        Wow is right.

      • Jeremy Conley

        That’s what I just pulled from fangraphs, yeah. He had a good but not great year last year in Low A. I expect him to move up the board as other prospects graduated, but not past 50. Still, as a return for Chapman it seems reasonable if a little weak, and certainly not a surprise.

        I was hoping for a top 30 guy, plus another good piece.

      • CP

        I’ve seen midseason rankings with him in the 30s so he could very well be in the top 30 now. I guess I agree that it wouldn’t be jaw dropping, more like about right to me.

      • TC

        It’s not likely anyone here is an expert on the Dodger farm system. We only know what we read. I wouldn’t trust anyone who says otherwise.

        MLB has Grant Holmes as the #58 prospect. That’s a nice return.

  12. ohiojimw

    C.Trent on Twitter a couple of minutes ago:

    “I’m told the deal is not official yet… but there’s smoke, and i’d be shocked if it weren’t finished”

    • gaffer

      I trust C. Trent to be behind by 6 hours.

  13. WVRedlegs

    Now the Indians and Orioles can outbid each other for Jay Bruce. Both teams needing corner OF that hits LH.
    On BP, Reds are willing to pay some of salary due. That opens it up a bit. Priced to sell.

    • lwblogger2

      I’d love to see Bruce in an O’s uniform but I’m telling ya, their farm system doesn’t have much to give back. The return may be underwhelming.

    • greenmtred

      The Reds also need a corner outfielder, don’t they?

      • lwblogger2

        Yeah but didn’t you know that Bruce is like the worst player in the history of players (tongue-firmly-planted-in-cheek) … Actually, it makes sense to move him if you don’t think you will compete before 2018. Personally, I would rather he not be traded but I’m one of the few that feel that way. The Reds do need to listen on him though, because for the right piece, it would be prudent to move him.

        I also think it might do Bruce some good to get a change of scenery.

  14. Jeremy Conley

    This should be a really interesting look at what the Reds front office is thinking. After poking around, it looks like the two best prospects the Dodgers have after their top 3 are RHP Grant Holmes and OF Alex Verdugo. Those two are the Dodgers’ 2014 first and second round picks respectively.

    I think it’s a decent return for Chapman, as fangraphs had Holmes as the 89th best prospect in the game before the season and Verdugo in the 150s, and both had good years so should expect to be ranked higher this offseason. Verdugo hit .311/.340/.441 with a lot of doubles and Holmes had a 3.14 ERA in 103 innings, with 117 Ks and 54 walks.

    The thing is they are both 19 years old and both finished the year in A ball. So these guys will not help the Reds at all in 2016, and thinking they will be ready to really contribute in 2017 is a stretch. They will both be 21 then, presumably having faced one year of AA competition. Not many guys make that jump seamlessly.

    So if those two are the guys, then it may signal that the Reds are really looking at 2018 as their next possible playoff year, which would make a lot more of the current team expendable.

    • jdx19

      Very good analysis there, Jeremy. Seems spot on. This return could signal a lot about the Reds true plans.

      I just hope the Reds don’t take inferior prospects solely because they are a level higher, or perhaps 0.5-1 year closer to the bigs.

      • Jeremy Conley

        I was thinking exactly the same thing. They have another pitcher named Anderson who was their first round pick in 2013. He hasn’t pitched nearly as well as Holmes, but he finished the year in AAA (though he pitched terribly there). If the Reds got him instead because he’d be ready in 2017, I’d be ok with it, especially if they think they can help him improve based on scouting.

        But there really are no other bats I’d like instead of Verdugo. He seems like just the type the Reds need (like Votto-lite, good AVG, good OPB, decent power but mostly doubles), but they just have to wait for him to develop.

    • RedsFaninPitt

      We will see what we actually get, but your last point has been my thought all along. Teams that are competitive are not going to give up MLB-ready talent because of how they think these pieces can help them during 2016 or provide additional depth. If indeed it is younger but perhaps higher ceiling prospects that the Reds received for Chapman and perhaps should expect from a Frazier or Bruce trade, then the Reds should also be willing to move Votto now to get a huge haul back since he will be 35 or 36 before they are competitive again with a substantial remaining payout during his age 36-39 years.. We will see though. If Peraza is in the deal, he is much closer.

      • Jeremy Conley

        Peraza is of basically no interest to me. He just struggles to get on base too much, and the Reds have plenty of that to go around.

      • RedsFaninPitt

        I wouldn’t prefer Peraza either. I would be happy with Barnes and Verdugo or even Verdugo and Cody Bellinger, but wouldn’t be surprised if it is a young highly regarded pitcher (Holmes) and Schebler who can play throughout the OF.

      • earmbrister

        Hey Jeremy. Where did you get the impression that Peraza struggles to get on base? He struggled in MLB last year, but that was a real small sample size (25 PA).

      • JoshG

        peraza has struggled at every level getting on base, he’d have to consistently hit .300 to keep his OBP at .315, he refuses to walk

      • earmbrister

        Thanks Josh. I hadn’t looked hard enough at his stats; busy Monday.

      • jdx19

        With the exception of last year at AAA, he has gotten on base at a well above-average rate. I wouldn’t write a guy off who was mostly in the .345-.350 range in every season of professional ball except last year, which he began as a 21yr old.

        As recently as 2014 between high A and AA, he was a .340/.365/.440 sort of hitter.

        Maybe he just wasn’t ready to start in AAA given he only had about 200 PAs in AA.

        I’d be fine with a Peraza, I think. The lack of walks is troubling, but KC just showed us that a team full of guys who can put the ball in play without striking out a ton isn’t the worst thing in the world.

      • jdx19

        JOSHG…. you say he struggled at “every level” getting on base.

        That isn’t even close to accurate.

        I took the liberty of combining his partial seasons into each year. Here are his OBPs since 2011:

        2011 – .346
        2012 – .341
        2013 – .341
        2014 – .364
        2015 – .314

        He struggled in 2015 in his first exposure to AAA as a 22 year old. That is certainly a cause for caution, but the guy has shown every year as a pro (except 1) that he can get on base at an above average clip.

        Basically, he’s what Billy COULD be if Billy could make contact and keep the ball on the ground.

      • CP

        Looking strictly at OBP, yes, but I think there are some clear warning signs that call into question his ability to get on base at the major league level. He has a BABIP-driven OBP, much like Billy Hamilton.

        Still, he is a much better hitter than Billy Hamilton, so I think his on base percentage will translate better.

    • Tct

      This is what I was thinking as well. A return centered around Holmes or Verdugo would signal a change in strategy by the front office. It may end up like the deals made last winter with one ready guy, like Barnes, and one guy farther away, like Holmes or Verdugo. I would be really suprised if the Reds trade Chapman for two 19 year olds. Not necessarily disappointed, but surprised.

    • lwblogger2

      Yeah, and that takes me back to the “We’re building for opening of the new ballpark in 2003” era. That’s not exactly a warm and fuzzy thought.

    • ManuelT

      If that’s true, then it would at least demonstrate a plan with some coherence and that would be a good sign. Much better than blowing smoke up our butts. However, if 2018 is what we shoot for, shouldn’t we also think about trading Votto and Bailey? Shouldn’t EVERYONE be available?

  15. Steve Schoenbaechler

    Maybe Chapman and BP for Barnes? What about that?

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      Maybe the Dodgers fill in with one more lower level prospect. Or, maybe we are going to get Torreyes back?

    • Jeremy Conley

      Are you thinking that the Reds would only get Barnes back because the Dodgers are taking on BP’s salary in this scenario? I say no, I don’t want to save money, I want to get the best players back. Verdugo and Barnes for Chapman would be interesting, especially if the Reds moved Mesoraco to LF permanently.

  16. sultanofswaff

    Please no Peraza. I don’t know why we don’t sweeten the pot by adding in a John Lamb or Moscot to bring back a legit CF, be it from the Dodgers or elsewhere.

  17. Steve Schoenbaechler

    Now, Houston seems to have some hitting prospects possibly ready. And, I’m not worried about power. I want OBP.

  18. jessecuster44

    We need hitters. Trade for hitters.

  19. Steve Schoenbaechler

    Regardless of who, we need hitters. No need for #3-6 hitters. We need OBP hitters.

  20. ohiojimw

    Seems like Twitter has moved on from Chapman for now. The big news for the rest of the world was Chapman to LAD. i.e. Who really cares who moves in the other direction as long as it wasn’t one of those top 3 guys or a recent prospect like Pederson…..

    Kind of funky as a Reds fan being on the being on the backside of things.

  21. PDunc

    I’ll be interested to see what the Dodgers do with Chapman and Kenley Jansen. Will one of them accept a setup role? Will the Dodgers get creative with their bullpen and use something other than the traditional closer/setup-man bullpen? Is Jansen now on the trading block? Are they going to ask Chapman to start?

    • ohiojimw

      With only one year of control, I don’t think the LAD risk trying to make Chapman a starter. They either turn around and flip Chapman or Jansen or figure out a plan B

      • lwblogger2

        Jansen in the 7th/8th and Chapman in the 8th/9th would be a nasty back of the pen.

  22. tct

    I’m a big fan of roster versatility and Barnes seems really interesting to me. Solid OBP guy who can catch, play second and third. Seems kinda like a Craig Biggio profile.

    • lwblogger2

      Yeah, he’s a neat player. Not sure if he was the key piece of a Chapman deal that I’d be very happy though.

    • gaffer

      Its an odd rumor, as it says only that he was “discussed”. If he and Holmes are it then this is a decent deal.

    • earmbrister

      Does Peraza being included make sense with Blandino in AA?

      • jdx19

        Prospects bust way more often than they work out. Having two decent MI/2B options is certainly better than having just one.

  23. WVRedlegs

    There might be some misinformation in earlier reports. The Reds just might have gotten Seager afterall.

    • Matt

      I don’t believe that for one second, unless maybe they packaged the Toddfather with Chapman.

      • rhayex

        They’re refusing to give up Seager for Jose Fernandez, an ace with 3 years of control. No way we got him for a year of Chapman.

      • WVRedlegs

        Miami wanted a 5 for 1 deal that included Seager AND Urias. I see how that went to the wayside.

      • rhayex

        What? No disrespect intended, but where are you hearing this? I can’t imagine that Miami is that crazy.

      • JoshG

        I was thinking the same thing, If Frazier was going that way too……

    • Joe McManus

      No chance. I wish, but no chance.

    • lwblogger2

      I’d do a Chapmanesque somersault if Seager is in this deal.

      • lwblogger2

        And trust me, you guys will want to pay money to see that 😉

  24. Redgoggles

    Didn’t they just sign Utley? I think that would remove the BP option.

    • jdx19

      They could platoon them, maybe. Utley can’t hit lefties any more (56 wRC+ against L last year).

      That would be a very expensive platoon, though.

      Upon checking, though, turns out BP hit righties better than lefties last year, too. 92 vs 97 wRC+. Weird.

  25. NYRedfan41

    I hope it’s 2 younger lower level higher upside prospects like Holmes, Verdugo rather than two 25 yr old prospects like Barnes and Schelber

  26. rfay00

    Reds do not have a top 100 IF prospect so wouldn’t getting Peraza (#2 2B prospect and #24 overall per MLB.com) be a great upgrade? I might be looking too much at the cover of the book though and not reading through.

    • rhayex

      He looks like BHam all over again. Terrible OBP coupled with extreme speed? Not interested.

  27. Hotto4Votto

    Upon reading up on some of the Dodgers hitting prospects, I would be happy with any combination of Peraza, Verdugo, Barnes, or Bellinger (if he can play a decent corner OF). Schebler is a pass for me, with bat speed questions and relegated to LF. We have Winker coming up for LF, so we need someone with more positional flexibility.

    • Joe McManus

      I had that initial thought as well, but he seems to have better contact skills than Billy. I’m guessing Peraza and one of Ballinger, Verdugo or Barnes. I would take that (not that I have a choice).

  28. WVRedlegs

    An interesting note in this Chapman trade is that both Chapman and Jansen are free agents after the 2016 season. If Dodgers don’t re-sign either and make both a Qualifying Offer after next season, and both decline, the Dodgers then get two first round supplemental draft picks to aid in a restock their farm system in what they lose in a Chapman trade. And they load for bear for 2016 and go for it full bore.

  29. wdwrolen2713

    What is a good OBP to have in AAA? Peraza has around a .315 rate and that sounds pretty good if he could replicate it in MLB. I’d probably take Peraza and a choice of Holmes and Verdugo – one close and one future prospect. You could possibly have Suarez at 3B, Cozart at SS, and Peraza at 2B if we actually trade some of our players away.

    • Jeremy Conley

      .315 is not good. MLB league average was .317, and he’s certainly not going to be facing easier competition in the big leagues compared to AAA. He profiles as having below average on-base skills in the big leagues.

      • CP

        I agree but there is a caveat that he is only 21. He kind of looks like B-Ham if B-Ham was actually good at making contact.

      • wdwrolen2713

        I was probably thinking of the “.300 is a benchmark” in AVG, but not OBP. So, he’s really below average in AAA. Huh, that doesn’t sound good but he’s probably the headline piece at best.

      • CP

        He’s only had one minor league season below .336 OBP, it just happens that it was the most recent/advanced one. He would actually be considered above average OBP overall. It’s his walk rate that is concerning: a 3 % walk rate against AAA pitching is abysmal.

  30. wdwrolen2713

    I just want to know who we got and go ahead and rip the band-aid off. The suspense is brutal.

  31. earmbrister

    Nearly 4 and a half hours later and no details. The initial report said this deal was pending the review of the medical records.

    I wonder if the records are still in the waiting room, or if they are sitting unattended in an examination room …

    • ohiojimw

      or flying across the country because the Reds don’t trust the internet or even faxes

      • lwblogger2

        No way I’m getting that job then 😉

      • lwblogger2

        I mentioned “AWS” and “The Cloud” which means I’m a voodoo witch doctor.

  32. wdwrolen2713

    So if Peraza has a poor OBP and is seemingly average in all other categories besides speed, why is he ranked so highly in the Dodger’s system? Is there something I’m missing or is Dodgers’ farm that bad below the top 3?

    • earmbrister

      As JDX posted above, he doesn’t have a poor OBP; he just doesn’t walk much. He’s ranked high in the LA system because the a top 100 prospect (#24) and the #2 ranked 2B, per MLB.com.

      They have him as an above average hitter and above average fielder, with well above average speed.

      The more I chew on this, the more I like Peraza. If it’s not Peraza and a pitcher (as noted above, rumor is no pitcher), it’s likely to be one of the outfielders.

  33. earmbrister

    Rumor is LAD did not give up any minor league pitching in the deal

  34. ohiojimw

    Sheldon just Tweeted:

    “Sources saying no deal done yet for #reds and #dodgers on Chapman. I’m hearing multiple teams could be involved.”

    So maybe it is turning into a multi player on both sides block buster.

    • CP

      A third team’s involvement makes the delay more understandable.

    • ohiojimw

      Or it could be they were doing it as an auction and the Dodgers appeared to have the winning bid and then somebody else said but “wait, there is more……”

      • Brian

        that appears to be as they said its more teams in on chapman still not a three team deal necessarily, just more teams still in on chapman

    • Matt

      Also from Sheldon:

      “By multiple teams involved, meaning others could be in mix to get Chapman.”

      So may not be a 3-team deal, just might be that deal wasn’t finished and now more are bidding him up now that it looks like he’s going to be moving?

  35. rhayex

    Someone else likened this to the original scuttled Cueto deal (the one that didn’t include Reed). Another team came in at the last moment with a better off and caused the Reds to step back and renegotiate with the Royals. I’m hoping that that’s the case here.

  36. ohiojimw

    Clarification from Sheldon:

    By multiple teams involved, meaning others could be in mix to get Chapman.

    • WVRedlegs

      Houston may have finally decided to give up big AJ Reed for Chapman.

  37. BMBLUE

    Why does everyone keep thinking that zack cozart is going to be the SS past this year? They are not, and should not, resign him.

    • ncmountie1

      If Cozart comes back and hits like he was before injury why wouldn’t you resign one of the best defensive SS in baseball??

      • wdwrolen2713

        Too much money plus prospects like Blandino and Suarez behind him?

  38. ChrisinVenice

    Please let this mean there is some bidding going on.

  39. Brian

    knowing arizona was in on chapman previously this could get interesting if true that more teams are still offering. Dodgers who lost out on grienke can’t afford to also lose out on chapman to arizona. smart move by the reds front office if they are playing these teams off eachother.

  40. whodeythinkgonnabeatthemredlegs

    maybe the diamondbacks are trying to outbid the dodgers. they did have a great package for us at the deadline

    • earmbrister

      Or the Astros. Their owner is a big Chapman fan; he may have lit a fire under their GM to try to get a last second deal done.

      • Joe McManus

        I’m hoping it’s the Astros. I want Daz Cameron and Vincent Velasquez 😎

      • TR

        I would prefer Chapman going to the Astros since it’s an AL team and the Reds would only face Aroldis every three years.

    • Ryan Lykins (@ryan_lykins)

      What was the package that the DBACKS had offered? I didn’t see any names.