Final R H E
Chicago Cubs (93-65) 10 16 0
Cincinnati Reds (63-95) 3 4 0
W: Lester 11-12 (9-7) L: DeSclafani (9-13)
FanGraphs Win Probability | Box Score

The Good
Good? Are you kidding?

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The Bad
–The Reds just got destroyed by the Cubs. It’s their 11th consecutive defeat, Cincinnati’s longest losing streak since 1993. The Redlegs have now lost 95 games this season.

cryingemoji

Not-So-Random Thoughts
–2013: Reds win 90 games, make playoffs.
2015: Reds lose 95 games (and counting), last place.

A precipitous decline in a short period of time.

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95 Responses

  1. Geno

    To quote Elton John:
    “It’s a sad,sad situation
    And it’s getting more and more absurd”

  2. Michael E

    The good news is we keep losing and have now moved into 2nd overall draft pick as of tonight. If we were winning right now, I’d be so mad I could spit. While the draft isn’t an exact science, there is LITTLE doubt you have a much better chance at a franchise player the higher in the first round you draft.

    I am all in for the Reds franchise and its future. Winning games NOW does NOTHING to help that, and in fact is a negative.

    • ohiojimw

      I don’t understand all the excitement about being 1 versus 2 versus 3 in the draft. By all accounts there isn’t a franchise player coming up in this draft. In such cases history indicates that given the state of talent evaluation and development, anywhere in the top 5 is about as good as anywhere else in the top 5 and the Reds look to be locks for a top 3.

      Given the slot allotment system for signing folks, #3 likely better than #1 or #2 because its cheaper and has as good of a chance of yielding an impact player down the road. With 3 picks in the top 40-45, the Reds having the saved overhead on top pick could come in handy.

      • Hotto4Votto

        One other thing about having a worse record, is that we will also draft higher in the Rule-5. Not many players go in the Rule 5 draft and fewer stay with the teams that draft them. Being near the top could make a difference. This past year Delino DeShields Jr and Mark Cahna both went before the Reds could pick. Both have made solid offensive contributions to their team. Maybe the Reds can repeat history and find another Josh Hamilton in the Rule 5 draft. Or maybe at least someone who could help our miserable bullpen. There’s usually at least some value to be gleaned from there. The Reds are putting themselves in a good position to take advantage of it.

      • gaffer

        Thats totally the opposite of the case. You want a higher pick because it has a higher slot value that you can use for ALL signings. If there is no consensus top players then you can bargain them down and use the leftover money to sign OTHER players to over slot deals. This has been a huge benefit for teams like the Astros in recent years. They basically get extra first round quality picks.

      • CP

        Yeah, Gaffer’s right on this. Even if there isn’t a consensus top 1 or 2 guys (which, it is still a little early to say still…a lot can happen between now and the draft thanks to HS baseball and summer baseball), it gives the Reds more money to spend in the player pool. The current system isn’t the same system that was around 10 years ago. The Reds essentially have a pool of money they can use, and their pool is larger because of their record. MLB has incentivized being terrible and apparently the Reds have taken them up on it.

        The Reds don’t even have to spend the allocated money on the #2 pick, they can work out a deal with a cheaper college guy, then “overpay” on their compensation pick that they won to lure a high school guy out of college.

        This is a win/win for the Reds. Of course, it’s gonna be interesting to see the reaction ’round here if the top 5 are all pitchers and the Reds take best available.

      • Michael E

        OhioJim, I know that baseball drafting is spotty. Busts all over high first round picks, studs found in many other rounds, but in general, the higher you pick, the more choices you have and the better chance you have a landing a player that is close to “can’t miss”. While that player might still miss, the chances are lower. We need a franchise prospect, a hitter/pitchers that is instantly our best prospect and in the whole MLB top 10. MAybe we don’t get it, but chances are improve the higher we are in the draft.

        The other argument, what else is there at this point? Why not want a higher 2016 pick? winning a game now does NOTHING for ANYONE in Reds land. It won’t suddenly have 500 more signing up for season-tickets or increase the future TV deal by 1 million a year or anythign like that. Winning is pointless at this point. Losing has benefits, winning does not. That’s how simple I see it. Am I wrong?

        One last thought, if we finished stong, say winning 15 of last 20, the chances of firing manager, GM or letting mediocre players walk all go down. It gives ownership, GM and coaches an edge to maintain status quo, and I can’t imagine anyone wants NO changes.

      • lwblogger2

        I see your point but can’t get myself to pull for losses. As a former player, I pretty much always want to win. If it doesn’t make sense in the long term strategy than so be it. Winning also improves the morale of the team in general. Players get nasty with each other and everyone is in a crap mood when you lose all the time. A losing streak like this is flat out toxic, even if it does net a pick that helps in 3-4 years.

        I also don’t see that top 10 (in all of MLB) prospect that you’re referring to in this year’s draft class. A lot can change before June but as of right now, that player isn’t there. There may be a top 50 or 2 but not a top 10.

    • Alex

      And the top overall pick is not 100% decided either. Philly has a big 3 game “edge” (based on tie-breakers), but they play the Mets today and Marlins at home this weekend. Meanwhile the Reds go to Pittsburgh, where they’ve strangely had success this season but that was mainly with Cueto and Leake aboard.

      At this point I’m rooting for them to lose. I’m not an MLB draft expert but I’ve read many times that the top overall spot has big advantages from a talent and spending standpoint.

      Whether its 1, 2, or 3, the Reds cannot screw this up next June. No Nick Howards, no Phil Ervins. (Yes there’s still time for those guys.) If they blow this draft it could set the team back another 2-3 years.

  3. pedroborbon

    I find it pretty gracious of the reds to offer some batting practice to the cards, mets and now the cubs to help get the tuned up for the playoffs.

  4. RedAlert

    Awesome recap Chad !!!
    I say : “11 plus 4 more , then show Price the door “👉👉👉👉👉👉👉👉👉

  5. Jeremy

    Braves win and Phillies are winning. Overall a good night so far. See what you’ve made me resort to, Walt!

    • Michael E

      Even Milton is confused, finding himself giddy after feeling terrible last week.

  6. ohiojimw

    Tonight I became disappointed for 2016 already. Disclafani’s effort was sad. It certainly appeared that after retiring the first 8 batters and recording 6K’s in the process, he simply quit for the night after having Lester (the pitcher) down 0/2 then walking him on the next 4 pitches. From then on with a couple of exceptions, the Cubs basically dictated the flow when they were at the plate.

    Understand, my disappointment isn’t about losing this game, it is about seeing one of the guys already pencilled in for the top of the rotation next year on a night when he appeared to have very good stuff simply lose his mental edge and never get it back and in the process fritter away a game the Reds might have at least been competitive in otherwise. (don’t be deceived by the final. The Reds gasoline alley pen gang allowed 5 runs in the last two innings).

    • Mutaman

      Disclafani has been a minor bright spot in this miserable year. But this sorry ball club really needs one of these young pitchers to step up and stop the embarrassment.Very disappointing that he didn’t do it. getting pretty used to disappointment with this team though.

    • Matt WI

      I am very disheartened that Disco has ended the season in a slump, but I’m not quite so pessimistic about his next year already. I was very much hoping he’d finish the season with a sub 4.00 ERA, and he’s been roughed up the last couple times out. But, he’s a rookie, pitching his most innings ever, in a lost effort of a season.

      It’s not more fair to pick him apart from last night than to slot him as the number 2 guy after one of his good games.

      • sultanofswaff

        And just to reiterate, Disco’s peripherals in the 2nd half actually improved. There’s a lot to like moving forward. Even last night, the hits he gave up in the big inning were ground balls. Meh.

      • CP

        Yeah, was a huge bright spot for the team. People always put such emphasis on a pitcher’s first 5 and last 5 starts…it’s amazing.

        Yeah, his last 3 starts were a bummer but putting his season in some context makes me feel a lot better: it took Cueto 3 seasons, and Mike Leake 4 seasons to top Disco’s innings pitched, neither produced 3+ WAR until Cueto did in 2012 (his 4th season), Mike Leake has yet to top 2.3 WAR. DeSclafani’s FIP is better than Leake has ever been.

        I think arguably, Disco is already Leake’s equal. There is not a pitcher on the staff that I trust to throw 175 innings pitched next year other than Disco.

      • CJ22

        I agree CP. Disco is the only pitcher on staff that I feel should be in the rotation next year.

      • CP

        I think you forgot Raisel Iglesias, who is probably the “ace” of the staff. I’m just not convinced he’ll be a real workhorse yet.

      • lwblogger2

        I still worry about Iglesias’ delivery and how it plays over 180+ innings of starting for a couple seasons. I don’t think it was the stuff that had teams thinking he was more suited to relief work. I think it was his delivery. I want to see a couple healthy seasons from him.

    • Michael E

      I don’t see any impact on my 2016 outlook. Lets face it, nearly all good players struggled early in their careers. An awful game or rookie season could mean a bad career or it could mean a future multiple all-star. We don’t know. What I do know is that we are at least benefitting from playing time. There is NO doubt some of these young players will be good in the future, some sooner than others. There is also no doubt some will be busts, long forgotten in a few years.

      That can be said of every team, every year. We need more help than normal from young playes in 2016, but we have more good young players than normal ready to try and fill in those gaps. What we don’t have is any top tier stud prospect, save maybe Stephenson and that is the only depressing thing to me at this point. I hope to remedy that with a trade or two in the offseason and the #1 or #2 pick in 2016 draft, bringing us the consensus best hitter or pitcher in the draft.

      • ohiojimw

        I was disappointed because I took events as a measure that Desclafani isn’t as far down that road of development as may have been thought and wished.

        Both times after the lesser hitter, Jackson, burned him, Disco came back to close the inning by getting Bryant and in the one case also Rizzo with no further damage. In the 5th he also got Schwarber in front of Jackson. So, along with the two gaffes with Lester, it just seemed like Disco hasn’t learned he needs to respect every hitter and not just the big names.

        I would have hoped that after ~30 starts in the season (the getting experience process you spoke of) this was one lesson that didn’t need to be learned at the expense of a new season in 2016.

        I recall Cueto, Bailey, Harang et al having similar lapses. They didn’t learn overnight either but they learned. Hopefully we won’t see Disco have very many recurrences in the future.

    • lwblogger2

      I think it was a young pitcher concentration issue more than anything. He was still beating himself up for letting the pitcher off the hook after having him 0-2. He never got it back really. Hopefully, as he matures, that won’t happen very often.

  7. wildwestlv

    We’re not playing spoiler by beating anybody, so at least, by losing, we’re helping the Cubs put pressure on the Pirates. Then, when we get swept by the Bucs, over the weekend, we’ll put that pressure right back on the Cubs. So, just by showing up and physically occupying the diamond for nine innings, the Reds are still affecting the postseason for our divisional rivals. And somehow this will all lead to the St. Louis Cardinals winning their 12th World Series title.

    • ohiojimw

      I hear Molina is done for the year. He could be the one piece too many they can’t make up for in a run of short series.

    • Pooter

      Quote of the evening: “So, just by showing up and physically occupying the diamond for nine innings, the Reds are still affecting the postseason for our divisional rivals.” It’s like reverse psychology applied to being spoiler. And perhaps by laying down again the NYM we might have affected the LAD with home field pressures. We are witnessing the ripple effect with our passive performance.

      • Michael E

        Wasn’t that Dusty Baker’s mantra?

      • Michael E

        Oh, wait, it was “runners clog the bases”, never mind.

  8. Chuck Schick

    This will be the 14th non-winning season out of the last 20. Why is there so much shock and disgust? 2010,12,13 were the aberrations…..this year is closer to “normal” than 2012.

    This is a bad franchise. They’ve won the same number of playoff series over the past 40 years as the Giants won last year. In 2006 they were bad with a 60 million dollar payroll….this year they’re bad with a 117 million dollar (Opening Day) payroll.

    They play in a division with 3 of the best teams in baseball……2 of the 3 can spend them into oblivion if needed. The farm system is mediocre to bad…the major league team is terrible with no financial means to immediately improve.

    But, I’m sure changing managers for the 16th time in 35 year will fix everything.

    • redmountain

      Sorry the staistics for the farm system are they are in the upper third.

    • ohiojimw

      Curious why you chose 2006 as a bad team with a whole decade to choose from. It was certainly a frustrating team to follow but I’m not sure it fits the bill of being a really bad team compared to some of the others.

      At 80-82 they finished within 5 games of the division winner and eventual World Champion Cardinals. That’s why the year was so frustrating. A game turned here or there and the Reds might have stolen the division from the Cards (and Astros who came on late). The Reds were actually tied for 1st at the start of the last week of August that year.

      http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/2006-schedule-scores.shtml

      • Mutaman

        If I’m not mistaken the 2006 had a shot going into September, but Dunn and Harang decided to take that month off- check the numbers. Some miserable performances down the stretch. Only guy who showed up was Bronson.

      • ohiojimw

        The Reds high water mark was the end of action on 24 Aug. They opened a monster 10 game west coast trip that day with a win in Frisco and were tied for 1st. They went on to drop the next 3 in SF, get swept (3) in LA and drop 2 of 3 in SD to come home at -6 to the Cards on 3 Sep.

        From there they just tread water until the Cards went into a swoon with about 2 weeks left in the season. The Reds did really play any better than they had been; the Cards just fell back to them as the ‘Stros charged. The Reds were as close as -2.5 on the last Thursday of the season and the same distance back the next day and at an even .500 but dropped the last two games of the year (by memory only, I think they were eliminated as a result of the Friday outcomes).

        The half game differential was because the Cards had a rainout which was never made up. As I recall MLB was sweating bullets that the entire playoff structure was going to be derailed by having play that game the Monday following the end of the season and depending on the outcome perhaps having to play a tie breaker game for the NL Central title the next day.

    • RedAlert

      There is nothing “normal “about this year at all – and yea , this team needs a change in managers – you gonna bring back a guy this year alone has had at least 3 losing streaks of nine games apiece wirh the last one being potentially 15 ???? That’s insane – and I am well aware of the injuries and trades. Those notwithstanding, he has shown absolutley NOTHING to motivate this team to play at a fundamentally acceptable level. He is a horrible in-game manager. Maybe the next guy will not be successful either, but Brian Price’s act is old. Don’t even get me started on his phantom accountability mantra.

      • ohiojimw

        I like the “fundamentally acceptable” as a choice of words. A team can play “fundamentally acceptable” baseball and still lose a lot because of talent deficit.

        This Reds team too often does not play fundamentally acceptable baseball; and, with the trades and injuries also has a serious talent deficit to cope with too. The fact it has both of these issues is why it is losing 75% of the time over the last two months versus the 55%-60% loss rate of typical last place teams.

    • Scot Lykins

      I am glad I read Chuck’s post. I was beginning to think I had the worst outlook for the Reds going forward. I feel better now.

    • jessecuster44

      You can’t just blanket a franchise as bad. The Reds have made 8 World Series and won 5 Titles, which is more than a lot of MLB teams. And every time a different owner is put in charge, the franchise essentially has a chance to reset.

      What you can say is that under the current ownership is that the current state of the franchise is bad, and only two years removed from a playoff appearance.

      AND you’re dead wrong about he playoff series. 1975 was 40 years ago. Reds won two in 75, two in 76. Two in 1990. One in 1995. … Did the Giants win 7 playoff series last year? Even with the Wildcard “Series” that doesn’t add up.

      You can say that they haven’t won a playoff series since 1995, which is pretty bad – given that they’ve had 3 chances.

      Firing Price would be a place to start from, but I’d agree that you should overhaul management first – if you really wanted to turn things around.

      • Michael E

        Exactly. And we won as recently as 1990 and many teams can’t say that. It could definitely be worse.

    • Michael E

      I agree, BUT every franchise evenutally finds success and some then maintain it. We just don’t know when that is coming for the Reds. 2016? 2021? 2040? Hopefully we’ll be the up n comer like the long maligned Cubs and Astros have been in 2015. We have as much chance as any young team, save for the Mets and Cubs (they have stud youngsters we lack…we just have a lot of good/very good prospects, no sure things).

    • Craig Z

      Not even Milton wants to be associated with this game.

      • Michael E

        Milton is rooting for #1 pick. Even he knows that is all that is left. We can’t screw up a wildcard team and winning a few late games does NOTHING for the franchise (revenue, outlook, excitement…nope, none of that would change).

  9. jessecuster44

    Now, we’re rooting for losses so that we can get a high draft pick… And do what with it?

    This isn’t the NBA. One player from the draft isn’t going to swoop in and save the Reds.

    Unless we could draft a new GM.

    • Michael E

      Okay, lets take the other approach. What does rooting for winning doe for us? Good luck.

      Losing has perks, winning the last few games does nothing. Would you feel better about 2016 if we sweep the final series?

    • Michael E

      …and yes, one draft pick can make a huge difference. Bryant with the Cubs is latest example. Trout. Harper.

      I realize many a good player were drafted late in round 1 or in other rounds, but historically speaking, the higher in the first round the higher the percentage chance of having a valid MLB player in 5-8 years.

      So, why root for wins and sliding down the pick ladder? Whats the point? What if a stud presents himself after the high school and college seasons and we have pick 1? I think you’ll be one of many excited we have pick 1 and can choose from several near can’t-miss prospects. I know I would be, regardless if it does nothing for the 2016 Reds (it won’t help next year), it still could mean the difference of a .500 team in 2020-2025 or a division winning team five years in a row.

    • Michael E

      Winning now won’t help 2016 at all either, and there is no other benefit to be had. Losing the last week has several potential benefits for the future of this franchise.

  10. Shchi Cossack

    Now that the Giants have been eliminated from playoff competition…

    “I plan to play (the rookies) as much as I can,” Bochy said. “It’s going to be valuable for both of us, the player and us.”

    GM Bobby Evans echoed Bochy’s sentiments, “When we acquired Marlon, our mindset was to do everything to win, and if we get eliminated, we do what we should do and that’s give our young players a chance to play. Right now, our mindset is to give our young players a chance.”

    But the Reds have Skip for that! Remind me again how the Giants have done in the playoffs recently…

    • Jim t

      Has Byrd reached his at bats threshold to have his bonus kick n

      • Matt WI

        Read an article this morning that said Byrd is 15 PA’s shy of his vesting options and the Giants are unlikely to give them to him. But they want to resign them. The Reds got the Giants to have to be the bad guy.

    • Jim t

      I also hate to point this out but with Y-Rod injured the Reds do not have a position rookie playing farmhand worth the audition. He isn’t a great prospect either. The rest are at least a year away. The Reds have been running rookie pitchers out there all year. To say they haven’t played the young prospects is wrong. You want to see Duvall or Boesch go buy Bats tickets for next year. The’ll spend more time there then the bigs next year.

  11. jessecuster44

    Anyone else see Brayan Pena applaud Starlin Castro’s good fielding play?

    One the one hand, that’s a classy display of sportsmanship.

    On the other, that shows a mindset that may not be about winning ballgames. I like Pena, but that may not be the example a vet would want to set to younger players. The object is to win, not celebrate an opponent. There’s plenty of time for camaraderie like that before and after games.

    Think Pete Rose ever applauded an opposing play right after it happened? I think not.

    • Matt WI

      I think everybody on the team understands the context of what’s going on with just a few games to go. If it’s classy, then it’s classy, no qualifications. Doing things just for show is disingenuous. That kind of thing fall squarely on the context of where the Reds are. If they were winning 97 games instead of losing, nobody would even think to to mention Pena clapping. Not clapping at a good play is not going to make this team better.

      • jessecuster44

        I dunno. I don’t see the teams at the top of their divisions doing something like that.

        Maybe I’m old school. Maybe it really galls me that this team, which has currently lost 11 in a row, seems more concerned with applauding the play of others than making plays of their own.

        … Think Votto would ever do something like that? Remember when Gomez stole the HR from him? He was not happy.

        Like I said, Maybe I’m old school, and this is whey I’m ticked off. It’s one thing to do it if you are winning and everything is clicking. It’s quite another when your team isn’t playing well.

      • CP

        Haha, Matt. I mean, it’s not even 1 season removed. Fans, man.

      • Matt WI

        And, it’s just fundamentally wrong to assume the thought process of a player… appreciating a play is not mutually exclusive from wanting to win the game. Making such assumptions is grasping at very, very thin straws. The little cocktail kind maybe, they really aren’t very useful except to stir up something.

        If Mike Trout did that, people would say “what a wonderful guy, look at the MVP.” If Joey or Pena does it and the team is losing, people say “that guy doesn’t care.” Pure sophistry.

      • jessecuster44

        And maybe I am grasping at straws. Its really upsetting to see a season turn out like this, with so little effort at the end.

        I guess what I am saying is that Mike Trout WOULDN’T do this – no matter what was happening.

      • jessecuster44

        Now I remember that Votto did applaud the Second Time. Thanks for the link. Crow eaten.

        CP – the video is fine – but do you think you have to rub it in? Let’s try to be civil.

    • Jim t

      LMAO!!! That is a indication of not having a winning attitude. How about their miserable play. All the injuries,bad management decisions.

      • jessecuster44

        I don’t think anyone disagrees with your comment. I just think the players have stopped focusing on winning, which might be fine in Little League.

    • CP

      Sportsmanship is a bad example for young ballplayers. What a world to live in.

      • Joey

        Looked like Pena hit a good ball up the middle, looked like he was running the play out, and it looked like Castro made a great play to get him out. I think Pena was just celebrating some good baseball. I think sports and sports fans would be a lot better off taking from his playbook. You go to college, high-school, and grade-school ball games and what do you see? Insane parents of kids who cuss and yell and scream the whole time. That stuff ruins the sport if you ask me. I can root for a team or an individual on a team and still acknowledge a great play made by an opposing player on another team.

      • jessecuster44

        That’s a fine point of view, and I totally agree with everything you’ve said. Pena is a great example of spoprtsmanship.

        Given the juxtaposition of the celebration and the current 11-game losing streak, it’s hard for me to be happy with it.

    • reaganspad

      Jesse, I disagree. Pete Rose in Game 6 when Fisk hit the home run was saying how great it was to Sparky. Sparky said “Peter Edward Rose, how can you talk this way?”

      Rose said, “don’t worry skip, we will get these guys tomorrow. But listen to this, isn’t this great?”

      I think you can appreciate the game. tip your hat when someone makes a nice pitch or play.

      it is the second part of Rose’s comments that are critical

      • jessecuster44

        Spot on. I think Pete even said something similar to Bernie Carbo as he was rounding third after his 3 run shot to tie the game.

        Clearly the now 12 game losing streak has distorted my vision. Tipping the cap may have been just that.

        Also – now that maybe it is clear (from his tweet) that Pena isn’t coming back, maybe he was emoting for one of the last times in a Reds uni.

      • greenmtred

        We all share your frustrations, Jesse, and your gracious modification of your original position is impressive.

      • jessecuster44

        Thx. If you argue that you’re right, you have to admit when you are wrong – in this case I was.

      • Michael E

        Excellent point. I normally agree, a great play or exciting play is still great or exciting, no matter if it might frustrate the opposing fan, there is still a little part of us clapping and saying “wow, nicely done man”.

    • Michael E

      Yeah, that is a conundrum. I want people that would yell at our own team for not making a play, not necessarily cheering the other team, unless its to show up a loafer on our team. If that was the case, I am okay with it.

  12. sultanofswaff

    I liked what I saw from Holt last night. Pretty athletic guy (though small-ish in stature) with good instincts. Definitely can play an average or better CF. Even with zero power, if the OBP can translate from the minors to the bigs, it would at least hedge the Billy Hamilton bet. Without question a more viable option than Bourgeois or Duvall.

    • Shchi Cossack

      Holt has always had a strong reprutation as a good defensive CF who can play both corner OF positions. The issue, as you correctly point out, “if the OBP can translate from the minors to the bigs”, bu the only way to know is to play the kid and find out.

    • Michael E

      I am open to any change at this point. I think we all agree Hamilton needs improvement and maybe having a hedge motivates him to find his ground ball stroke and add .50 to his OBP in 2016. If not, make him a pinch runner or trade him to a team in love with his speed.

  13. james garrett

    Nothing really left to say about this front office,manager or team that hasn’t already been said.Bob accepting this type of performance really should tell us all we need to know about him as well.

    • Michael E

      We don’t know if Bob is going to accept this yet. We might have a cleaned out house in a few weeks. If he sits pat, I will be less than pleased. He seems to fear making bold moves. He went comfy with Jocketty and hired Price quickly, citing familiarity. Lets hope he wakes up and takes bigger risks. Might backfire and we might be a 100 loss team the next few years, or he might find a Pinella that can motivate these loafers into a real contender instantly.

  14. Jim t

    A total rebuild is in order for this team. Chapman,Frazier,Bruce and BP should all be dealt for young controllable talent. The Reds still need another year to sort out the pitching and with no immediate position help in the minors it is time to unload. Next years team will have many holes.

    Hamilton Cf still to early to give up on his talent and not competiting anyway giving him another year is a no brainer.

    Votto 1b face of the team and will be tough to move

    Metz. C

    Suarez. SS

    Rf,Lf, 2b and 3b will be needed.

    Two bench pieces are on the team DeJesus and Barnhardt. Competition open for the rest.

    Sorting through the pitchers will be a adventure. Who starts,who relieves and who heads to AAA will be a work in progress based on performance.

    Y-Rod will be given every shot to earn one of the open outfield spots. The other three openings will be filled through trades or cheap FA signings meant as a stop gap until Winker,Blandino and others are ready. In all it will be a long couple of years.

    • reaganspad

      Frazier and Chapman may be on the block, but I doubt Super Todd goes anywhere.

      Bruce and Phillips are not going anywhere. When the return is so much worse than having them on the team, it is really not a smart idea to trade them.

      Phillips calls the shots on any trade, he is going nowhere. Bruce is worth too much. The guy is a 30/100 player who is an above average fielder.

      We need 2 more of those, not one less

      • Jim t

        They were close to moving Bruce at deadline. Chapman is gone, I agree BP will be tough to move but unless he wants to play on a rebuilding team he would be wise to waive his no trade clause. Frazier is not going to get a long term deal and will be marketable even with a bad second half. The Reds are not going to add pieces to the titanic. They are going to blow it up.

      • lwblogger2

        That’s how I see it too but I’d be stunned if the Reds’ FO sees it that way. They almost traded him for a broken starting pitcher.

    • Michael E

      I am with Jim T. Hit the rebuild hard and it will accelerate the “back to contention” time frame. Trying to nurse this mess into a fringe contender will only prolong the inevitable.

      Bruce and Phillips need gone because they give off a “I don’t care” vibe with their demeanor and often with their play. Phillips was better than I thought he’d be, but that isn’t saying much. They both cost more than they’re worth and that is the key. If they both made under $5 million, I would be okay keeping them because you’d have more to fix LF or SP or RP, but they are part of the financial problem, not the solution.

      Chapman, trade him because A) he’ll bring back a couple of very good prospects or a very good current player, B) because the Reds completely mis-used one of the best left-handed arms they’ve had in the past 50 years by sticking him in the least used roll of “closer” (I hate that word, it means tuck away a good pitcher and waste his ability on the pine).

  15. CJ22

    Well, we clinched our first last place finish since 1983. That was the longest current streak of not finishing last in MLB. Now, the Cards, Yankees, and Braves(If they stay out of the cellar this year) will take over the streak as they all finished last in 1990. This will probably also be the second worse Reds season since WWII. the infamous 61-101 of 1982(remember Paul Householder?) is first and the 66-96 BaBoone’s of 2001 being the others. With 95 losses I see this team passing the 01 team. Will heads roll is the question?

    • jessecuster44

      Why? We have young pitching, and people will get healthy. Everything is fine.

    • reaganspad

      I think there is talent on this team. Walt J. has to go.

      I am meh on Price. I would prefer him to go also, but if you can only get rid of one, please please please make it Walt J

      The game has passed him by.

      You fire Price and Walt J hires the next manager. shoot me now,

    • Michael E

      I don’t see a remote chance of contending in 2016, but I do see a deep pool of pitching talent that almost ensures will be contending again in short order, especially if we make a couple of shrewd FA/trade moves the next two years.

      We had a contender (at least a wild card contender) this year, but everything that could go wrong, did. It sucks, but what can you do. Bailey hurt after just a couple of starts. Mesoraco hurt in a way that is frustrating (blowing out a knee would have been better than this lingering malady with seeminly no cure). Bruce, well, he pulled a Bruce and decided April and May didn’t count…he loves his multi-month slumps, what else is new. The bullpen failed, somewhat predictably, but also worse than expected. Gregg and Marquis were self-inflicted wounds that prove Jocketty needs to go, no matter how solid his trades have been.

  16. Jim t

    They have enough talent to finish last. Walt assembled this talent. Which is it a bad team or a good team managed improperly? Collectively this team is a mess fundamentally. Big payroll and last place finish. Situational hitting is one of the worst teams in league, Effort has gone bye bye, guys had their bags packed and ready to go home weeks ago. Adding pieces to this mess is a terrible idea. Clean house and build around the young arms. Nobody should be safe on this team.

    • Michael E

      Many of these things have been with the Reds for two decades, even when winning under Baker (they had much better pitching, which Price was not lucky enough to have). Timely or fundamental hitting? We haven’t had that since early/mid 1990s.

      We used to have a great bullpen every year, but that was also during the decade plus we had awful rotations, so it came with a grain of salt.

    • Michael E

      I agree the franchise is a mess. It could be worse, but it can be oh so much better. I hope they get Walt out of there and don’t promote from within. Time to finally get a really good GM (I think O’Brien and Krivsky were solid, but they got the boot anyway).

  17. Jim t

    Also the Pirates,Cards and Cubs are stacked with young talent. No way adding a piece or two will catch them. It’s time to blow it up and start over. Any attempt at a quick fix will only extend the agony.

    • Michael E

      I agree as well. Don’t assume the Pirates and Cubs will stay good for long. One stud gets injured here, one gets traded there and suddenly they’re mediocre. Also, some Pirates will be getting big raises, pushing them to cut payroll and diminishing the team. That said, the GMs are obviously better than ours, keeping the talent coming.

    • Michael E

      Hiring an assistant GM from the Pirates or Cubs would be shrewd. I’d add the Cards, but we’ve all had enough of ANY former Card so forget it.