• The Reds are considering bringing back Bryan Price, according to Ken Rosenthal (Fox Sports).

“The team is considering retaining Price and making changes to his coaching staff, but no decisions will be made until the season is over, according to major-league sources. The rationale for the Reds keeping Price would be similar to the Tigers’ logic for keeping Ausmus – that the manager should not be held responsible for injuries and trades that compromised the club.”

Rosenthal adds that changes in the coaching staff would be likely if the Reds keep Price. Tinkering with the coaching staff while leaving in place the manager, general manager, his front office team, and the organization’s anachronistic ways is like refreshing the ice in the drinks of people sitting in the chairs on the deck of the Titanic. Even replacing Price and all the coaches is nowhere near enough change.

• Good news about Homer Bailey. John Fay reported on Bailey’s progress including comments from Bryan Price. On Friday, Bailey threw three sets of 25 pitches at 75 feet with “zip and authority.”

“It feels like nothing ever happened,” Bailey said. Reds manager Bryan Price watched Friday’s session. “He says he feels like, ‘I haven’t had surgery,’” Price said. “’It feels perfect. It feels like I could take whatever the next step is: Throwing breaking balls, throwing bullpens.’ All the things he’s not allowed to do but feels like he’s capable of doing. That certainly is aspiring to all of us looking forward to seeing him pitch at the top of his game next year. We’re optimistic he will be able to make it back on the earlier side of recovery.”

Bailey is recovering from Tommy John surgery. A reasonable timeline would have him back on the mound for the Reds in early May.

• Speaking of surgery, Billy Hamilton is recovering from surgery to repair shoulder instability. It’s believed that Hamilton injured his left shoulder making a diving catch against the Royals on August 18. The Reds say there is no structural damage, which is a positive development. The capsule is a membrane or sac enclosing a body part, usually a joint. In Hamilton’s case, the shoulder capsule had become loose, allowing the shoulder to become unstable.

Hamilton’s left shoulder is his lead shoulder when batting right handed. Recovery from shoulder surgery for hitters, when it is the lead shoulder, is “complex” and “delicate” according to Dr. Neal ElAttrache, one of the world’s foremost authorities.

“It (the rehab) involves rebuilding strength, and all that goes into the swing from the front shoulder. It takes perfect mechanics to regain bat speed and the swing path. Sometimes it takes a year, sometimes more.”

The Reds center fielder posted this picture and tweet to Twitter:

 

65 Responses

  1. ohiojimw

    Color me completely confused on the Hamilton shoulder injury. I thought he injured the right shoulder making a throw after the diving stop. And, from the pic of him in recovery it looks like they worked on the right shoulder. What gives?

    • Shchi Cossack

      Jim, Not sure what about the pic makes you think the docs worked on his right shoulder. The right arm is used for his IV and there is no incisions or protective bandages to cover any incision, but his left shoulder is covered by his hospital gown and appears to be padded under his gown. All the reports I have seen indicated he injured his shoulder on the dive.

    • RFM

      It doesn’t look like they worked on the right shoulder. In the picture his left shoulder is the one bundled up. Presumably with bandages under the blanket. It looks like there’s a scar or something on his exposed right shoulder, but if that’s what they just operated on you’d expect it to be bandaged, at least as long as he’s sitting in a hospital bed getting an IV…

      • Shchi Cossack

        I think the scar you referenced is a tat.

    • tct

      I think that’s a pre surgery pic. There is a blood pressure cuff on his left arm, and they probably wouldn’t take it on that side if it had just been operated on. Plus, he looks like he is in the initial stages of anasthesia. Plus he’s clearly in some kind of ER or triage room(look at all the supplies on the shelf). If he was already recovering from surgery, he would be back in his personal room, or in a little private room where they could monitor him until the anesthesia wore off.

      Then there’s the tweet that says “let’s get this over with,” presumably meaning the surgery, which means it hadn’t happened yet.

      This is more fun than “Where’s Waldo?”.

      • Shchi Cossack

        This is a lot more fun than watching the Reds play the few remaining games this season with little expectation of any competitive performances…

    • Steve Mancuso

      Sorry I’ve been away for a while and haven’t addressed this. I believe OhioJimW is correct and the surgery is on the right shoulder. I based my claim on it being on the left shoulder strictly on the picture – figured it was post-operative. But I’m convinced by all the reporting Jim has cited – good work on that. So that’s good news from the “lead shoulder” standpoint.

  2. Gaffer

    Not firing Price would be criminal. It’s HIM that is the problem, not just the players (although the GM may be an issue) as very few of the players have played much different than their historical abilities. This team was awful before injury and trades made it more so. Playing Skip 120 games???? Pitching Gregg, Badenhop and Marques???

    • VaRedsFan

      I think the words you were looking for is “all of the above” Players, Coaches, and Front Office.

    • RFM

      The team’s best hope for improvement is finding somebody to help the continued development and improvement of the young pitchers. DeSclafani, Iglesias, Stephenson, Lorenzen, Lamb, Finnegan, Reed, Sampson, Moscot, Weiss. Meanwhile there’s seemingly little a manager can do regarding the offense. Isn’t that just the situation that Bryan Price, the former pitching coach, could help with?

      Firing the manager without considering the pros and cons, the team’s position, the team’s needs, and the organization’s path to future success… THAT would be criminal. Skapegoating is NOT what the team needs. Maybe Bryan Price was hired at the wrong point (coming off a trip to the Wild Card game), but he’s now stumbled into a perfect situation, a team needing to develop young pitching assets.

      Might as well give him another year to work with the pitchers, then make a managerial change before 2017 when the team is closer to contention. If you see contention and rebuilding as a series of peaks and valleys, Price was hired at a peak despite being the kinda guy to get you through a valley. I think he should be given some more time to navigate out, before being scapegoated and replaced when things are looking up.

    • Carl Sayre

      I have some empathy for Price between the injuries and WJ giving him AAA players at best. That said he has to go my reasoning, injuries and poor talent has been an issue but over the last 2 seasons. I have caught myself wondering aloud what info he has that makes him think that is a good idea? I will admit because I think something does not automatically make it right but I see Dusty light when I watch his decisions. He started this job with one of the best starting staffs in baseball and a lights out “closer”. That term now makes me want to puke waste of a lightning bolt arm. He had some injuries and players under performing but from the break on the Reds looked like the Keystone cops. Terrible decisions by WJ losing the veteran pitchers and injuries and laughingstocks again.this season. He has to go because other managers face these issues and put a respectable team on the field…………………………………or they get fired. It is the nature of the beast. They keep Price and tinker with or tear down the coaching staff how think the reds will be a .500 team?

  3. Shchi Cossack

    Here’s a strong vote for BHam to start the season after recovery and rehab in AAA. He was already struggling with his hitting mechanics and based on the medical analysis quote (“It takes perfect mechanics to regain bat speed and the swing path. Sometimes it takes a year, sometimes more.”) and the fact that BHam never established his hitting mechanics at AAA, there is absolutely no reason to let him try and regain his hitting mechanics at the major league level when he had never established his hitting mechanics previously.

    The Reds have already wasted 2 years of MLB service time (TYVM WJ!) by promoting Hamilton before he had even demonstrated the ability to adapt to AAA pitching. Let’s not compound the problem, just in case he can actually become an effective major league hitter. A year of Hamilton at AAA will not hurt the Reds in 2016, since next season (despite the weak assertions by WJ & BC to the contrary) will already be a lost season while the pitching staff develops. If Hamilton can focus during 2016 on developing the proper and effective plate approach and hitting mechanics, he could be a valuable asset and contributor in 2017 when the Reds may actually have a real chance to be competitve.

    • CP

      I agree with all of this. The same goes for Lorenzen. Neither guy demonstrated real success in the higher levels of the minors, but the Reds rushed them to the majors to fill a void. At least with B-Ham, the team was a marginal playoff team at the time. The Reds pushed Lorenzen for zero reason.

    • Hotto4Votto

      I’m completely on board with this. It will be even more of a lost season if the Reds suffer through another anemic offensive season from Hamilton as he tries to recover from surgery and build back strength. Do that at the AAA level while we still have the options.

    • Carl Sayre

      Great insight. That added to he may have some success hitting AAA pitching and help his confidence which has to be battered. Wonderful idea I wish I had thought of it.

  4. Chuck Schick

    Let me preface this by saying 90% of what you read on the internet is non-sense and this may proven to be non-sense…but based on a source, this is what I believe will occur:

    1. Price will be back because the strength of the organization is young pitching. Also, there is little hope that the next 2 years will be better than this year so there is no reason to hire and pay someone else to fail.
    2. When Votto was extended, the belief was that the cable deal would average 60-70 million per year. The Reds want a ” Cardinal like” deal 65 million with equity and FSO is offering an Indians like deal ( 40-50 million average) with no equity. FSO doesn’t want to give the Reds equity and then be forced to do the same for the Indians and Cavs and lesser degree Blue Jackets. Unlike the Cardinals, who could partner with the Blues, the Reds don’t have a winter sports partner to form their own channel so they have very little leverage. Also, the Cubs and Cardinals are making huge in roads in Indy and the Cards in Louisville so it makes the Reds rights less lucrative.
    3. The Blue Jays have a lot of financial flexibility and desireable non-pitching prospects and it would not be a surprise if that is Votto’s destination. He’s owed 192 million over the next 8 years and will be 41 when the contract ends, so he’s more desireable to a well financed AL team.
    4. If Chapman and Bruce can be traded, they will be and the goal is a sub 60 million payroll.

    I could be wrong, but based on the facts as I understand them today, this is what I believe will occur.

    • lwblogger2

      Well, if you’re going to completely burn it down, that’s kind of how you’d do it. I’m not sure that the Jays would take on all of Votto’s salary and if they did, I don’t think you’d see a decent prospect coming back to the Reds.

    • ohiojimw

      can you source any of this? The entire linchpin of your theories has been that the cable deal cannot be big enough to support an on going payroll over $100M. My understanding of the CBJ hockey deal is that the team actually buys the time and makes their money on the ads. This was the case very recently and I haven’t read that it changed.

      • Chuck Schick

        I’m comfortable with my source and as I said, if it’s wrong then it’s wrong.

        It’s my understanding that the Cav’s deal expires after this year. It would be difficult to give the Reds equity and not the Cav’s given they have great ratings and a far younger demographic. The Indians have 8 or 9 years left on their deal, but it’s a matter of precedent. It’s tough to give the Reds and Cav’s equity and not expect them to want the same deal 8 years from now.

        As we sit here today, the CBJ are not much of a factor…but if they improve over the course of the next few years along with the favorable income/demographics associated with Columbus and hockey in general then they could have more bargaining power in the future.

      • ohiojimw

        The Indians are shown on SportsTime Ohio. This is a network started by Time Warner and the Indians ownership (Dolan family) in 2006. In 2012, it became a “sister” channel of FSN but continues to operate as a separate channel. I think it is fair to assume that the Indians got their equity when STO became a sister channel to FSO. I’m still looking to find out if what the rights arrangement is for the Indians games and if there are any active negotiations going on.

      • Chuck Schick

        Fox owns Sports Time…not to be semantical, but as you mentioned, STO was owned by the Dolans and not the Indians. FSO operates the channel and owns the Rights to the Indians broadcast

    • jessecuster44

      If they trade Joey, I’m done following the Reds for a while.

    • tct

      I’m not sure it’s even possible to get under 60 million without trading Frazier, Mes, and Bailey along with Votto, Chapman, and BP.It’d be close. Someone with math skills should check that out

    • Carl Sayre

      I am a huge JV fan I love his approach to hitting. That is my disclaimer even with his talent there is not a team in MLB that would eat his contract just as a salary dump nevermind anything in return. That is IMO that and 2 bucks will get you a cheap cup of coffee. I mean what do you think a team is going to get from him the last 2 or 3 years of that contract? average? power? Long in the tooth DH has been designated a power hitter I just don’t see it. TERRIBLE contract as great as he is maybe in a bind Yankees,Red Sox, Angels or Dodgers might be dancing partners but my guess would be they would want the Reds to eat a lot of cost.

  5. Jeff

    Perhaps Price is managing exactly how he has been asked to manage? Maybe that is why Walt is not looking to replace him right now. He certainly never seemed like he was managing for his job.

    • jessecuster44

      Hey Bryan – let’s keep running the veteran retreads out there at the expense of the young position players we’ve called up. And while you’re at it, use Chappy once a week tops.

      Yikes.

      • Jeff

        Are you saying that it is too far fetched for a guy who signed Kevin Gregg and Jason Marquis to Major League deals to say such a thing? I know it looks sarcastic, but I was serious.

      • jessecuster44

        It is not out of the realm of thinking. I can totally hear Walt saying it.

      • reaganspad

        Hey Jesse, they could use Votto primarily as a pinch hitter…

        that like closer is an important role

      • jessecuster44

        No, Skip is the greatest pinch hitter ever!

    • jazzmanbbfan

      Better tell the kids to cover their ears then.

    • jay johnson

      It seems impossible for me to read any justification to not fire Price the day the season ends.He is far and away the worst manager in MLB,possibly baseball at any level.He brings nothing to the table.
      Injuries happen to EVERY team,his bad decisions time after time are inexcusable..
      He continuously gets the worst out of every player,the worst result out of every situation and rarely if ever makes a decision that doesnt backfire in his face.His teams have lost all basic skills during his 2 years as the decision maker.
      I, for one, am tired of him looking into his notebook of misinformation and previous mistakes with that sour face.He adds no fire to a team that has no fire and adds no personality to a team that is almost totally void of any.The Reds will draw about 50% less in 2016 by keeping him in place
      HE MUST GO.ASAP AT SEASON END

  6. WVRedlegs

    I saw Bailey throwing on Saturday’s telecast. They talked some about it. It was very encouraging news about Bailey’s recovery. Bailey said if he wasn’t back by May 15, then something is wrong. It is wonderful that he is ahead of schedule, just don’t rush him back. He’ll be too important to the rotation to risk any lingering effects by starting him 3-4 weeks too early, in the cool April/early May evenings. Stick to the plan.
    With BHam, this may be a blessing in disguise. This might be just what is needed to get his swing adjusted in his rehab and be better suited for ground balls, instead of all those fly balls he hits. Keep your fingers crossed on that one.

  7. Gary

    Who is telling Price to only play Suarez at SS? Cozart should be 100% for next year and Suarez has earned the right to be in the every day lineup somewhere. Left? 3rd? (with Frazier in left, if he would) Why not try him somewhere else this year, if he fails, it can’t get much worse anyway. Lets put together a lineup than can out hit the local AA team.

    • CP

      I don’t think there are any guarantees that Cozart will return the same player next year. Haven’t we learned our lesson from the Votto & Bruce injuries? These things are unpredictable.

      Suarez hits well for a SS, although perhaps not enough to overcome his current defensive deficiencies to start everyday. I don’t think he hits well enough to be an everyday LF. Well, maybe for this team he does, but not for a good team.

      • ohiojimw

        Agree on all points.

        I don’t think they should move Frazier to LF but if Suarez’s offense measures up for a 3B, they could play him in LF and it would be a wash for the combined offense from 3B/LF

      • greenmtred

        This doesn’t appply to the current Reds, but isn’t the thinking about hitting by position just as inflexible as the closer rules? If a team has enough hitting, does it matter whether it’s coming from SS or LF?

      • lwblogger2

        You’ve got a good point there. It doesn’t really matter in particular where the hitting is coming from if you have enough of it. I think what it comes down to is value. A strong hitting SS is more rare than a strong hitting LF. Therefore, a SS who is a little above league average as a hitter holds more value than a LF who is a little above league average as a hitter. Therefore a LF who is a little above average as a hitter should be easier to find and cheaper to acquire as far as talent and/or salary than a SS with that same kind of bat. What this means is that Suarez has more value if he can stick at SS just as Mesoraco has more value if he can stick at C.

      • Carl Sayre

        I think you are on to something about Cozart, the injury has been described as being about as it could have been. There is no question for me if Cozart returns to his denfensive prowess Suarez can’t hit enough to take the SS spot. I do think Suarez has to be in the line up his bat is that good but he is not a SS. The question is can he improve enough defensively to overlook his shortcomings to get his bat in as a SS? I can’t help but think a middle infielder who looks like a young version of Ortiz isn’t serious enough about his craft. I will be completely blunt he can’t carry the pre-injury Cozarts glove and he will continue to struggle in the middle infield as long as he is a fat a………….. well not that blunt.

    • Westwood

      How can you say that Cozart will be 100% next season when he’s coming off major reconstructive knee surgery going into his age 30 season? There’s no promise that he will be the 2015 version when he comes back.

      • Gary

        Just what if. It seems this club doesn’t plan ahead. IF Cozart isn’t back, then leave Suarez where he is. But IF Cozart is ready to play next April, we haven’t seen IF Suarez can play anywhere else. Hits well for a short stop? I’m not on top of the stats daily but the last time I looked he had the 3rd highest average on the team behind Votto and Brandon. For a team desperate for offence, planning for Suarez to be a back-up infielder When ever Cozart comes back is another example of failing to plan. Which is planning to fail.

      • Chris Payne

        He has a 107 wRC+ indicating he is a slightly above average hitter. Marlon Byrd had a similar wRC+ with the Reds. Marlon Byrd was a bottom 5 starting LF.

        We also have no idea how Suarez’s defense would be out in LF. He could be a complete buffoon out there. The Reds might be okay with Suarez out in LF if he can play great defense, but it’s hard to trust a guy that has never played a single inning out there.

      • jazzmanbbfan

        Third highest batting average on a horrible team isn’t saying that much. I hope Cozart is back because Suarez’ glove makes me cringe but I have my doubts he will be ready to play on opening day.

  8. Hotto4Votto

    So, the guy who makes some of the weakest contact on the team, or actually in all of baseball according to exit velocity, just had surgery to repair his “lead” shoulder as a RH batter, the only side he should be hitting from (he makes worse contact from the other side), and the estimates are it’ll probably be a year until his strength is built back up….

    Awesome.

  9. ncmountie1

    “Tinkering with the coaching staff while leaving in place the manager, general manager, his front office team, and the organization’s anachronistic ways is like refreshing the ice in the drinks of people sitting in the chairs on the deck of the Titanic. Even replacing Price and all the coaches is nowhere near enough change.”
    Well said. This is as depressing as our lack of hitters. This screams “stay the course”….and while I can buy into the Price leading the charge with a young rotation, it STILL doesn’t address the elephant in the corner named Walt.

  10. james garrett

    I agree that Price should not be responsible for trades and injuries but if Bob believes that’s why we will finish with almost 100 losses the we have more problems that I thought.Every team has injuries and very team trades people yet the good organizations expect this and have a plan.Price is in way way over his head.His in game managing is a joke period.

  11. WVRedlegs

    They were talking on Saturday’s telecast about how MLB is now letting MLB teams use the iPad in the dugouts after a little bit of scrutinty and mild controversy.
    Of course, the Cardinals, Cubs and Buccos were teams now using the iPad. The Reds, were not using this piece of equipment.

    • ohiojimw

      I heard Price say the other day that if you were used to looking on “page 100” for data in a certain (traditional) notebook he wasn’t sure an iPad could be used as efficiently since you’d have to figure out where the data was then go to it.

      I was flabbergasted that either A) he didn’t understand that a couple of screen touches could accomplish the same or B) that the Reds IT staff doesn’t present data formatted to allow this or C) both of the above. And I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t get it that “page 100’s” from multiple virtual notebooks could be queued up to flip back and forth among as easily as turning consecutive pages in a hard copy notebook.

      I think it was these comments that knocked me off the fence and into the Price must go camp.

      • Hotto4Votto

        I’m pretty sure I saw bullpen coach with a pager. Bryan Price dialed the pager from the dugout and then dialed “911” on the rotary. The bullpen coach immediately knew to get someone warming up. Why mess with a broke system?

      • ohiojimw

        Maybe they were trying to use the PowerStacks to send smoke signals the night the one caught on fire and that inspired the change you picked up on 🙂

      • Carl Sayre

        I am technology challenged but not afraid of it and I am older than him. That comment stuns me even when I don’t understand or keep up on new technology I at least have a clue how it might work. I get the fact it might be recorded in a notebook that the staff might have reviewed prior to the game and have it in their head. The now old technology would leave it at their fingertips, unreal.

  12. Peter Ponds

    I really wish Price would accept his former job. With all those young arms, his expertise as a pitching coach is an asset.

  13. james garrett

    Bob is foolish.Nobody and I mean nobody would bring back the same crew next year that he hit rock bottom with this year.You would have to change all of them just to make sure you got the right one.

  14. WoeIsReds

    The Titanic sure did serve nice drinks though, didn’t she?

  15. Theresa L

    Unless Walt Jocketty is dismissed and the Reds hire a new GM, I’m not sure that it matters if Price is the manager next year or not.

    • jazzmanbbfan

      And if they don’t replace him with a GM and front office staff that understands advanced metrics and knows how to use them to evaluate players, it will make no difference anyway. My big fear is if Walt leaves, Kevin Towers takes over and that is just as bad or worse.

  16. WVRedlegs

    On the pre-game show last night, and during the rain delay, FSO showed Jim Day’s very recent interview with Bryan Price. It was mostly a review on the season and certain players, the good and the bad. Very good interview and very telling at the same time.
    After seeing that interview twice last night, I think it’s safe to say that Price is returning as manager for next season. That is just my take on it and reading a few tea leaves. My assumption is that Jocketty is too.
    Jim Day asked him if there would be a complete overhaul of the bullpen, with the exception of Chapman. Price kind of skirted the question at first, then got into his philosophy for the bullpen and usage. They are trying to get 6 innings from the young starters. With a very young rotation, they want to lock down the 7th, 8th and 9th innings. Hold late leads for these young starters. The bullpen has failed this team miserably the last two seasons. Watch for a free agent signing or two or trades for a couple of stud relievers this winter to go along with Chapman and Hoover. That will be a big emphasis this winter.

  17. ed koverman

    we needs outfielders who can hit better than a back up infielder