They swung they missed they pitched they ducked. They left.

Reds 2  Cardinals 10  |  FanGraphs  |  DeSclafani, Iglesias, Lamb optimism

In Brandon Finnegan’s debut for the Reds, he pitched five innings against the Brewers allowing a run on three hits and two walks. Tonight, not so well. The 22-year-old lefty gave up three homers, two to Matt Carpenter, and a total of six runs in five innings. On the positive side, he struck out seven and walked one. That’s a sign of good stuff and decent command.

The Reds bullpen continues to be horrendous. Except for Aroldis Chapman who didn’t pitch this series. This series against the St. Louis Cardinals. Because of his break-glass-when-winning role.

Joey Votto had two hits, including his 29th home run of the season.

The Cardinals starters and relievers held the Reds to four runs this series. (And if you think the Cardinals have good starters, wait until you see who the Mets put on the mound the next four nights in GABP.)

The Reds are 32.5 games behind the Cardinals. Back in last place.

By all means, bring the architect of this mess back.

Even Milton has succumbed to despair.


22 Responses

  1. wildwestlv

    I vote for this image of Milton on a “REDLEG NATION 2015 SEASON” commemorative T-SHIRT. Please include the Reds’ final W/L record across the back. I’d easily pay $25 + shipping for that. Make it happen. (I’d also take an image of Jason Marquis in lieu of Milton)

  2. Mister D69

    You’ve been waiting a month and a half to use that headline. Admit it.

    • redslam

      Since he loves to roll out the literary/musical references, I thought we might see something more along the lines of “Finnegan’s Wake” – kill two birds with one stone =)

      • redslam

        Losing my mind… I am either blind or lost all my IQ points this morning… disregard post above and I will refrain from posting again until I have coffee.

  3. Shchi Cossack

    That was a miserable game to suffer through. Nice to see Joey launch one and continue his on-base streak. Not so nice to see Finnegan take his lumps.

    If the Reds are willing to guarantee multi-year, multi-million dollar contracts and clog up the 40-man roster with washed up, unproductive veterans, why not take a flyer for a 40-man roster spot at league minimum (and with at least 1 option remaining) on a 26-year-old RH OF capable of playing all 3 OF positions and posting a career minor league OBP of .367, including .398 at AAA? He has no power and has not produced at the major league level in 97 PA over the past 2 seasons. Cleveland DFA’d Tyler Holt earlier today. Holt may not hit any better than Hamilton, but unlike Hamilton, Holt hasn’t been given 1000 major league PA on a silver platter to prove he can or can not hit at the major league level.

    • ohiojimw

      For reference BHam’s OBP at AAA was .303. Hamilton actually OBPed at just better than .400 for his full year at both A+ and AA. It was AAA that brought him back to earth where he has stayed since…..

      • Scot Lykins

        I was sure hoping Hamilton would come around, but just don’t see it ever happening.

  4. CI3J

    Good, well-managed team beats bad, poorly managed team.

    Carry on, nothing to see here.

  5. sezwhom

    Tried to watch the Reds last night. Just to see Finnegan. After the 2nd Carpenter blast, gave up and watched Preseason hockey. It’s easy to see why one team is in first and the other is a mess. Yes, Chapman sure looked good….sitting in the the bullpen.

    • sultanofswaff

      That second homer by Carpenter really ticked me off. They had him down 2 strikes, perfectly set up for the slider, and instead they try and sneak a fastball on the inner half. Finnegan threw it exactly where Barnhart was set up. *facepalm*

      I’ve seen way to much of this all season. Stop trying to be clever and just execute the pitch with the highest probability of getting the result you want.

  6. redsfan06

    After feasting on the Brewers AAA pitching, the offense came back to earth against the Cardinals.

  7. Tom Billings

    Why can’t Jocketty admit this team sucks and there needs to be a lot of change instead of just a “retool”

  8. sultanofswaff

    There’s a Korean outfielder with some pretty gaudy OBP numbers who is going to be posted this offseason. I’d like to see the Reds get in on him. There’s also a handful of teenage Cuban players who’ve been cleared by MLB to sign with any team this year. We’ve got to get in on those guys no matter what.

  9. james garrett

    Walt doesn’t get it but it really comes down to what Bob wants out of this team.Is he satisfied with 70-75 wins and maybe hit 80 every once in a while or does he want a team that can make the playoffs every year.Our window started to close 3 years ago and now after this year has slammed shut.Real baseball people knew it and predicted us to finish right where we are going to finish.As a fan I have to believe that ownership wants a winner each and every year but the realist in me says differently.As its been said on this site many many times we are a small market team that can’t throw money away when we miss on a player or go get the best FA every year.We have to be just as good or better then every other team just to survive.To do that you can’t run this team or any team with gut and feel and use the eye test when drafting players.Look at our 40 man roster,look at our bullpen and look at our bench players.Did this happen overnight?Of course not.This has been on going for years and now we have hit rock bottom.To expect the same leadership to fix it after they set and let it happen is beyond what my one brain cell can comprehend.I want to finish my rant on a positive note by saying our young starters will make us relevant again at some point.

    • ohiojimw

      The Reds won 97 games in 2012 and 90 as recently as 2013. We can gripe about the post season performance in those seasons, but there is nothing inherent in either of those records to suggest the kind of collapse that happened in 2014/ 15 was a long time in the making and inevitable.

      The bullpen fell apart in 2014 plus Votto was a nonfactor all year; and, this year the pen was just as bad plus the rotation was disassembled for budgetary and contractual reasons; even the resurgence of Votto couldn’t make a difference. The bullpen blow up in 2014 may have just been one of those things that happen. However, it was somewhere between benign neglect at best and really poor management to allow themselves to get into the situation they got into with the rotation and to not have effectively addressed the bullpen situation before the 2015 season.

      The other major difference is that they made a change at manager and replaced a guy who for all his maddening foibles and idiosyncrasies knew how to win games over the course of a long season and replaced him with the rawest or rookies when it came to management experience. And before playing the injury card in Price’s defense consider that in 2012, Votto missed a third of the season and in 2013 they were without Cueto for 2/3 of the season (he made 11 starts).

      What the team has done to date at rebuilding the rotation is significant and gives reason for hope. However unless they do something even more significant with the bullpen, the rebuilt rotation and whatever they accomplish with offense will be largely wasted effort.

      • Jeremy Conley

        You make some good points Jim, the Reds were good pretty recently, and the full-on collapse came faster than I expected.

        The issue to me is that a mid-market team needs to be proactive about restocking with young players, to keep a consistent amount of talent on the team that doesn’t cost much. If the GM doesn’t do that, player’s salaries keep going up, and all of a sudden you can’t make any moves (and possibly your guys are starting to get worse because of age, and then you’re the Phillies).

        For me, this all started a few years ago with one move. Homer Bailey had just had his second great season in a row, and had two seasons of control left. At that point, he would have been a phenomenal trade chip. He could have brought back a group of players better than we just got for Cueto for sure, and presumably someone to play LF for the longhaul.

        Instead, Jocketty doubled down on his current core, giving Bailey a free agent-size deal. I have nothing against Bailey, and on the free agent market I think the deal would have been fair-ish, but it was a turning point to me. IF the Reds had established that every year or two, they were going to trade one of their core guys for prospects, I think we’d be in much better shape.

        In today’s game, for mid-market teams, you have two choices: re-load, or rebuild. Jocketty went down the rebuild path.

      • Carl Sayre

        You make a good point about Bailey. I hope that I am wrong but his return is probably mid season. The biggest problem with that is after TJ surgery it is usually the following season before full strength. When Bailey does recover he is a number 3 starter getting front end money.

      • ohiojimw

        It is not popular to say so here; but to your point on restocking, I think they paid too much for Latos and Choo.
        Those two deals represent the missing generation so to speak from the farm system. What the Reds have to show 4 years later is on the whole 3 mediocre seasons from Latos (plus Desclafani and Wallach) and one outstanding season from Choo.
        The cost was Boxberger, Alonso, Grandal, and Gregorius from the farm system and Volquez. Maybe none of those guys are stars but they are all solid contributors at the MLB level.

        To me the only one really “blocked” was Alonso. Gregorius they certainly could have used; and if you can’t have too much pitching it follows closely that until you are paying big bucks for it, neither can you have too much catching. Even without the injury to Meso, with the Votto’s injury and the ongoing left field situation, they could have found plenty of ABs for both Meso and Grandal. Not to mention that Boxberger could have been the difference in the pen.

        So in a way, the die was starting to be cast almost 2.5 years ahead of the Bailey extention.

  10. WVRedlegs

    The Reds are fast becoming the Phillies. The smart money is on Jocketty bringing in Ruben Amaro as another asst. GM/special adviser to join Kevin Towers. The Reds will double down on the old-school baseball philosophies.

  11. Jeremy Conley

    In theory, I like the idea of taking guys who have been relievers and seeing if they can be starters, because starters are more valuable. That said, it’s not going to work with every player that’s been successful out of the bullpen, you have to pick your spots.

    For example, when Alfredo Simon was in the pen, many of us on the site were saying that he should get a chance to start, because of his repertoire. That was also my first thought upon seeing Iglesias, even though he’d been a reliever in Cuba, for the same reason.

    I’m not saying that Finnegan, Lorenzen, Sampson, and Cingrani can’t or won’t be successful as starters, but to me, they don’t really look like they have the repertoire to start. Maybe they can learn it, but I have seen that happen very rarely.

    The good thing for the Reds is that a) they have a good amount of young starting pitching, and b) they have a terrible bullpen. Again, not to jinx any of these guys success, but if I had to bet, I think 2017 will look something like:

    Bailey, Stephenson, Iglesias, Lamb, Dsclafani, Reed, Garret

    Finnegan, Lorenzen, etc.

    • ohiojimw

      Moscot figures to be in the mix somewhere too as early as next year and there is the guy they got for Leake who is maybe a year behind the back end of this group.