The Reds have been okay to watch since, like Tuesday or something, which is nice since trades and stuff and Cueto sadness and all that.

Reds 4 Cardinals 3 |  Boxscore  |  Win Probability

Good Things

We got a nice little glimpse of the hoped-for future in the form of a very solid start from Raisel Iglesias. He didn’t quite get through seven, but still, 6.2 innings of two-run ball, that’s not bad. I believe we’ll take that more often than not.

Once it was called in, the middle-relief core did it’s job. Including a gritty/clutchy strikeout from Badenhop.

Bruce, Byrd, Pena, and Suarez were the big offensive contributors tonight. Jay Bruce has really turned this into a very nice season.

Billy Hamilton became the first Red to steal 50 bases in consecutive seasons since Eric Davis (h/t Joel Luckhaupt). He stole two today and now has 51. He also did lovely things in the outfield. Just a few more times on base, kid. Just a few more.

Bad Things

Votto and Frazier weren’t worth much today, which is strange. Especially with the tear Votto’s been on, but so it goes and they got the dubya anyhoo.

Aroldis Chapman had not his best day, though it came out alright.

Thinking Thoughts

It’s August now. The trade deadline is passed. There is, however, still some excitement in making life more difficult for teams like the Pirates who are trying to go to the playoffs. You gotta take what you can get.

It is also fun that Gerritt Cole seems to be a less-good pitcher when he faces the Reds. It’s like he’s the anti-Roy Oswalt or something.

Tomorrow, the fifth rookie in a row will toe the rubber for the Reds. That hasn’t happened since ’35, according to everyone I heard talk about it today. the good news is the Reds can now take the 2020 World Series title to the bank as history always repeats itself precisely.

I’ll see all you folks tomorrow. That’s right, you’re stuck with me for the weekend.

65 Responses

  1. Carl Sayre

    Those who question why it is Price needs to go. Chapman gave up a run and had the bases loaded and was already back to the top of the order and threw one breaking pitch after 3 hits and a run and a much of misses throw fast balls. One breaking pitch out of 28 pitches. he threw ball 2, 3 and 4 at 103 and none of them close. I shouldn’t have used the word pitch because all he was doing was throwing and yes that is the managers fault if Pena’ can’t call the game or Chapman won’t listen then the bench should be calling the pitches.

    • jessecuster44

      He’s a thrower, that’s for sure. Hasn’t ever learned to pitch. That’s an organizational problem – more than just Bryan Price.

      Let’s face it… Chappy is a sideshow, and the Reds are happy to let him be just that. Think the Yankees would do that?

      • I-71_Exile

        Yes, because the Reds organizationally are just a collection of throwers, not a pitcher among them. That’s sarcasm just in case you were wondering.

      • jessecuster44

        So how come the Reds haven’t taught him to pitch yet? Is Chappy incapable of learning the craft? too stubborn? Do they actually want him just tossing 103 MPH fastballs near the plate?

        What is different about Chapman?

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        I would put this on Pena and Chapman as much as Price and the organization. Pena is the one calling the pitches. Chapman can be shrugging him off, wanting the fastball.

        I wouldn’t say this is why Price needs to go, though. I believe Price has been good for the running game (Baker probably would have kept Hamilton below 30 SB) as well as for questioning umpires’ calls (Baker would be too busy with his toothpicks). Also, I see this team fired up much more than it was under Baker. I still remember Baker with some of his moves, or lack thereof, “It’ll come, It’ll come.” At least with Price, he will make a change.

        But, being an inexperienced manager, I had no problem giving him a shot, as long as he learned from his mistakes. And, he doesn’t seem like he has learned.

        Still, Price hasn’t been the worry with this team. It’s been the pitching and the medical/training staff. For example, with the starters, we are 11th in ERA in the NL. The relievers, 14th. And, it doesn’t look like having Simon, Latos, and Homer would have helped that greatly.

        Then, the medical/training staff. I can understand that injuries happen. However, it just seems to me that there are too many of our guys that never quite get right. Devin on the DL twice last season, almost back to back. Votto to quite there for several seasons. Bruce playing with a bum leg last season. We didn’t see Masset for 2 seasons, I believe. We still haven’t seen Marshall for essentially 2 seasons. There’s just too much of this for me.

        Not that Price hasn’t been “a problem”, also. But, I believe he’s nowhere near what we need to be working on.

      • jessecuster44

        I am fully on board with you regarding the med staff. Too many players are slow to heal, or get reinjured. And then the Meso contract immediately followed by the hip problem. Something stinks – maybe it’s gangrene.

    • Austin

      Actually, he threw 6 off speed pitches out of 29 total. Had 4 swinging strikes, 1 ball, and 1 bloop single that definitely could’ve (should’ve?) been an out. Maybe evidence that he needs to throw it more, but I actually thought the off speed stuff, especially the slider looked as good as ever tonight. Two lucky hits in the inning, and as inconsistent as he is with the off speed stuff, can’t blame him sticking with the fastball when he can still hit 103, especially after that first pitch to Marte.

      • jessecuster44

        if you can blow away people by tossing just a 103 mph fastball accurately, fine. but wouldn’t it be better to make batters worry about more than one pitch?

        Rob Dibble threw heat but he had an unhittable slider that he mixed in a lot more frequently than Chappy’s off speed stuff.

      • pinson343

        He was nasty with his breaking pitches tonight (4 swinging strikes and Walker’s one-handed bloop). He was overthrowing his fastball. And no way that Dibble was as good as Chapman.

      • jessecuster44

        Dibble was used more often, and won a World Series. Chappy? He throws harder and has more talent. I wouldn’t say he’s better than Dibble, unless Chappy’s usage goes up, and he becomes more of a difference maker for whatever team he is on.

      • Carl Sayre

        ! bloop single I may have missed but even Chapmans slider or change up isn’t 98.

      • pinson343

        Right, Austin, missed your on-the-mark comment while replying to others. I agree that the slider looked as good as I’ve ever seen it. Brantley was oohing and ahhing. I don’t mind the 2 hard hit balls (one of which Hamilton tracked down), major league hitters will do that.

        But getting ahead of Polanco 1-2 with a fastball and slider – Polanco looked helpless – and then getting too worked up with the crowd on its feet and throwing 3 103 mph fastballs that were nowhere near the strike zone …. That to me epitomizes where Chapman needs to mature, and it just hasn’t happened.

        That gave Marte a chance to put the Pirates ahead. I agree that once he got the swing and miss from Marte on a well-placed 103 mph fastball up, just stay with that.
        Other than a walk, my fear was that Marte would hit a low fastball right back up the middle for a 2 run single.

    • pinson343

      Excuse me ? His off-speed pitches were as good as I’ve seen tonight. Four swinging strikes, including strikes 2 and 3 to Alvarez. And a wicked slider that Walker weakly blooped over Suarez’ head on a one-handed desperation swing.

      • docmike

        I was at the game. There were several offspeed pitches, registering around 87-89 mph. Most of them were generating swings and misses.

        It was a weird inning for Chapman. He walked one and gave up 3 hits, including two weak bloop hits that fell into no-man’s-land. But he was also overthrowing the fastball, as shown by multiple times hitting 103 but above the strike zone.

      • pinson343

        Yep. As I’ve said above, the annoying and potentially disastrous part was 3 straight 103 mph fastballs either way high or way outside (nice save by Pena) to Polanco, when Chapman was trying too hard to end the game.

      • jazzmanbbfan

        He may not have complete command of his off speed pitches but his slider is cruel (if you’re the hitter) when it is anywhere near the strike zone. He probably relies on the fastball a little too much but not like he did a couple of years ago. And Pena needs to rein him in if he is overthrowing.

    • Redsfan48

      Veteran pitchers as good as Chapman (or Johnny Cueto for that matter) SHOULD be allowed to call their own game. They know what pitches are working for them that particular night and by that point in their career are very good at knowing how to get hitters out.

    • JB WV

      So since Chapman has a sub par outing he’s now just a thrower. And of course it’s Price’s fault. Wonder why so many teams were after him. They must have idiots running their teams, too.

      • jessecuster44

        not just because of this outing. Chappy’s been in the league for a while, and aside from 2010-2011, he really hasn’t improved as a pitcher. You could argue that his lack of usage hasn’t allowed him to improve, or that he hasn’t really needed to improve, and those both would be valid points.

        He just rears back and throws it – and some days it is not that accurate. That slider is nasty, and he was working on a change-up. He’s been around Cueto and other fine pitchers, so I don’t get why he hasn’t taken the time to develop and use secondary pitches more frequently. He loves his fastball – and who wouldn’t – but pitchers who fall in love with one pitch, they don’t become excellent pitchers/

        If Chappy improved, He’d go from “See if you can hit my heater,” to “See if you can guess which is coming… the 103, the 90, or the 85. and then hit it”

        And if so many teams were after him, then why didn’t one get him?

  2. jessecuster44

    Rasiel looked good tonight. Arroyo 2.0? Jay Bruce needs to stay a Red.

    • greenmtred

      Agree with both statements, though I only saw part of the game. Iglesias has some good velocity when needed, but doesn’t strictly rely on it (remind anyone else of Cueto in that regard?), but mostly he seems to give the hitters confusing looks with different arm angles and movement on every pitch. And, yes, Jay needs to stay a Red.

    • Redsfan48

      Nah he’s got far more upside than Arroyo. Orlando “El Duque” Hernandez 2.0 is what most people compare him to.

      • jessecuster44

        nice. Do the El Duque. I compared to Arroyo because he was a Red.

    • RedAlert

      talk about owning a team – I mean that guy TOTALLY owned the Reds – not sure what his record was against them , but is was phenomenal

      • RedAlert

        23-3 with a 2.81 ERA against the Reds – that’s unreal

      • pinson343

        And he lost 3 to the Reds after he got old. He was close to 20-0 against the Reds at one point.

      • Vanessa Galagnara

        small sample size. No pitcher is better against one team. He must of been lucky.
        Now that is sarcasm in case you didn’t pick up on it.
        Seriously though, I have often wondered why Oswalt was so dominate against the Reds. He wasn’t lucky, he was down right nasty.

      • Redsfan48

        Maybe it’s just everyone named Roy, because Roy Halladay also dominated the Reds.

  3. Joey

    Didn’t watch the game but watched Iglesias pitch against the Cards. He pitched well until he loaded the bases and gave up the 3-2 fastball slam to Wong. Glad to see him bounce back well after that one pitch did him in. I like his potential and like the fact that these young pitchers are getting to pitch at the big league level this year. The Reds pitching reminds me of the pirates a few years ago when they had Perez, Duke, Maholm, and Gorzellany all coming up together. Just hope it works out a little better for the Reds!

  4. Shchi Cossack

    Reds 4 Cardinals 3 | Boxscore | Win Probability

    Not only did the Reds take an away series from the Birds, they apparently spanked them again while the Birds were masquerading as the Bucs.

    The Old Cossack and Little Cossack will give you a shout out from the game tomorrow, Jason.

    • I-71_Exile

      I’ll take any victory against the Cardinals—even pretend ones. 🙂

  5. JMO

    Best person Iglesias could have been around was Johnny Cueto, same with Lorenzen. Hopefully those 2 learned how to be a professional first and foremost, then how to pitch in the big leagues. Our youth movement looks good. Excited to see K Sampson.

    • jessecuster44

      I am not worried at all about the starting pitching next year.

      • Redsfan48

        Agreed. But the best person for Raisel Iglesias to have around next season is Bronson Arroyo. Reds should sign him to a cheap, 1-year deal with some performance incentives.

      • jessecuster44

        bring in El Duque as a consultant.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        Well, given numbers like our starters ERA is 11th in the league, and that was with Cueto and Leake for most of the season, our starting pitching is going to be a weakness next season. I do like what I see from the individuals. However, as of now, considering Homer won’t be 100% at the beginning of next season, or even be pitching at the start of next season, our top 5 guys are going to be Lorenzen, DeSc, Iglesias, then pitchers like Moscot and Holmberg. Even if you include any of the Royals we got, none of those pitchers are anywhere near #1-2 pitchers. They would barely be #3 pitchers.

  6. docmike

    Votto had a rough game. He did hit one on the screws in the first inning that went right at Marte, but other than that struck out 3 times. Although in one of those at-bats he fouled off several pitches, helping to drive up Cole’s pitch count.

    I believe this was the first game since the break Votto hasn’t been on base at least once.

  7. pinson343

    The game should have ended when Sean Rodriguez inexplicably tried for 3rd on Cervelli’s bloop single. Hamilton threw him out by 10 feet, and Frazier muffed an easy catch and tag. If the ball had rolled way any further from him, Rodriguez could have gone home and tied the game.

  8. pinson343

    Suarez can hit. And with runners on 3rd and less than 2 out, he’s gotten the run in 9 out of 13 times.

    • Redleg 68

      The metrics pushers will tell you that stat is of no importance. But don’t compare Saurez;s numbers against Frasier or Phillips or Bruce.

      • lwblogger2

        No they won’t say that. They will tell you that the league average is about 50% and they will call people out when one or two more successes or failures would put a guy in line with league average and that guy is being loved on our hated on depending. They will also say that hitters can’t control when they get hits in general so RISP isn’t really a skill per se. Nobody here has said that Frazier has been good at getting runners in from 3B w/ less than 2-out. What they have said is that he isn’t that far off from league average (3 more successes would have done it) and because he is a good hitter in general, he’s likely to be around league average by the end of the season.

    • Hotto4Votto

      I certainly do believe he can hit. He needs to get the K’s under control, but he’s young an projectable. He posted a BB% of 10.8 and 11.5 in the past two (partial) seasons at AAA. I think he’ll make the adjustments at the MLB level as well.

      I also think his fielding will come around. He had 6 of his 9 errors from June 23-June 28. He’s had three since since June 28th and it seems like (from what I can read of the defensive stats) that’s he’s on the positive side of DRS for the season. Looks like he had a really rough week, and otherwise will be an above average SS.

      • lwblogger2

        I’m not sure I’m in agreement with DRS in that I don’t feel there’s an above-average defensive SS there. I do think that he’ll be a solid SS and could be average to slightly above average defensively.

        As for the bat, I think Suarez certainly hits well enough for a middle-infielder, especially if he can give you at least average defense.

  9. pinson343

    Iggy keeps improving, very encouraging. I think we know 3 of the starters for next year: Disco, Iggy, and Stephenson. Three down and two to go, plus Homer back at some point.

    • Hotto4Votto

      I think you can pencil in Lorenzen as well. Even with Iggy not pitching at all last year, Lorenzen has the least amount of experience of any pitcher. Just in 2013 he was primarily a CF while moonlighting as a closer in college. In only his second season as a starter he’s ascended to the Majors. He only pitched 120 innings last year and between AAA and the Reds he’s at 103 this year. He will likely take a few more bumps along the way, but I think we’ve seen flashes of the potential.

  10. pinson343

    I keep hearing analysts saying that the Pirates are the best team in baseball. That’s parity to an extreme. They lead the NL Central in runs scored, but with only a slight lead over the Reds and Cardinals.

    Without A. J. Burnett, who is on the DL resting right now and is retiring at the end of the season, their starting rotation isn’t that good.

    With the core 4 (including Mes) plus Suarez in the lineup next year, the Red could have the best offense in the NL Central. Yes they need to add an OFer who can get on base.

    • Vanessa Galagnara

      I would like to remind you that Mesoraco had exactly one very good season. One season and even that one he was injured often. I wouldn’t be counting on him being core just yet.

    • Tom Diesman

      Daniel Nava and his MLB career .267/.357/.387/.744 has been DFA by Boston. Maybe Walt is up from his post trade snooze and will notice and try making a claim. Heisey has been DFA as well, take him back over Bourgois any day.

      • Hotto4Votto

        Ezekiel Carrera as well has been DFA’d from Toronto. I believe any of those guys would provide more value off the bench over running the likes of Bourgeois or Boesch out there.

      • vegastypo

        What’s up with Nava? Did he get pushed out by too many other outfielders? I figured he would be picked up pretty quickly …

      • lwblogger2

        Agree on both. Those would be two good pickups. I don’t think Boston gives Nava away though. I think the Reds would still have to trade something for him.

    • greenmtred

      I like your optimism, Pinson, and share it, in a hesitant and retiring sort of way. The Reds for next year have a lot of questions (young pitchers, Cozart, Mes and Bailey, left field), but if some of the answers are good answers, they could be exciting and good. I can’t see the Pirates as the best, but their outfield might be.

  11. Armflapper8

    Speaking of The end of Votto’s streak, what IS the major league record for getting on base in games consecutively in a season? Nobody ever talks about that, only Dimaggio’s hitting streak.

      • doctor

        The MLB Now guys, in particular Brian Kenny, talked about this for a week when Tulowitzki got to 40+ games before his on base streak was broken a couple of weeks ago.

      • Armflapper8

        Thanks! I think that stat needs to be celebrated a bit more, especially in today’s dominant pitching era. Ted was truly something special.

      • lwblogger2

        That’s just a ridiculously awesome run.

  12. Evan armstrong

    Nice to see a SRO crowd at tonight’s and watch and listen to the place go crazy when Chapman came in. I still say Bob agrees to a contract extension and doesn’t trade Chapman.

  13. wdwrolen2713

    I saw the anti Roy Oswalt comment but thought he was talking about Hamels.
    Think about it. He had long career w phillies and traded to Texas at deadline. Oswalt had long career in texas and was traded to phils. When I first thought this i was thinking about astros but its all in texas anyway. Just kind of funny observation.

  14. charlottencredsfan

    Not able to see many games this season but hoping to see every inning of Sampson’s start today. Iggy looks like he may very well have a future as one of the Reds five starters in 2016.

  15. Indy Red Man

    I think everyone…including me….should be off the Chapman as a starter campaign. He just doesn’t get enough quick outs and he’d be over 100 pitches by the 4th inning. He’d have to save some velocity and would prob get hit harder as well. Its a shame with that arm but that’s reality. Price had him pitch 2 innings a few weeks ago and it was the same thing as last night in the 2nd inning. If they ever tried pushing him past 4-5 innings he’d prob go on the DL.

    • greenmtred

      He’d have to become a different pitcher, clearly, if he were going to start. His off-speed pitches are good, but he doesn’t seem to trust them, and he’d have to rely more on locating a usually slower fastball. I think that this is probably true even if he only pitches a second inning more than once in a blue moon. But they could still use him in highter-leverage situations and get more value out of him.