From the Reds info department:

We’ll say our Redleg Nation good-byes to Johnny Cueto and analyze the deal in coming days.

There’s a baseball game in about an hour!

172 Responses

    • charlottencredsfan

      +1. Sure sounds like it.

    • Michael

      Comon guy. It’s a return; featuring 3 possible Reds relief pitchers.

      Cueto couldn’t wrangle a single top 100 prospect. Ugh.

      • CP

        Am I missing something? Finnegan was #55, #75, #85 in BA, MLB, and BP this year.

      • rhayex

        Finnegan no longer qualifies as a prospect. Would’ve been Royals number 2 prospect if he still did.

      • CP

        Oh, jesus. I have enough of these types of arguments at work with inside counsel. Guy throws 30 innings and everyone becomes a lawyer.

      • rhayex

        Finnegan would be Royals number 2 prospect if he still counted as a prospect, Lamb was #18 in baseball before getting TJ surgery and is reportedly back to his previous form, and Reed is a high upside lottery ticket. This was EXACTLY what we wanted for Cueto (and is more than most people expected). It would’ve been great to get offensive help, but this is a GREAT trade.

      • Hotto4Votto

        I’d have been happier to get a hitter in return for either Lamb or Reed (preferably Reed).

      • Vicferrari

        Did not watch a lot of post season but thought I recognized his name.He was pretty solid in 2.1 innings in the WC game when the Royals were able to mount their comeback (high leverage enough for me)- looks like he had a decent ALDS but got rocked up pretty good.
        On the surface that looks like a steal getting a 22 year old with post season success. Putting up horrible numbers at in 14 innings at AAA but decent numbers in 29 innings with the Royals. He is probably the 2nd best out of the Reds bullpen right now

      • charlottencredsfan

        If 1 guy works out, it’s a decent trade. If 2 work out, it’s very good trade. If 3, Bob Howsam must have something to do with it! All, given the circumstances.

      • eric nyc

        Given the value we watched waste away in JC all because of the politics of the stupid ASG, I would have to say that one of these guys has to become a part of the rotation in the next 2 years for this to be even a passable trade. If your definition of “works out” is a LOOGY middle reliever and seeing 1 or 2 of these guys turn into that makes this trade look good to you, then I can’t agree. One of these guys becomes a legitimate SP for us and I’m ok with the trade. Another becomes a viable reliever, I’m happy. But one of them needs to become a solid contributor to the team and it probably can’t be Reed since that’s just too far out.

      • eric nyc

        This. Unless Reed turns out to be a surprise phenom this is a pretty unremarkable trade. I’m not saying it’s a BAD trade per se, but we are seeing what happens when you wait this long to trade a rental pitcher. How much more could Cueto have been worth a month ago? 2 months ago? This team has been dead in the water since May but the stupid ASG might have ended up screwing this franchise for the next 5 years.

      • lwblogger2

        Lamb and Finnegan can both be starters, especially Lamb. Trading Cueto is difficult and you aren’t gonna get Cuero for him. That said, my initial reaction is that this is a nice return. Lamb has swing and miss stuff and Finnegan is a possible SP with swing and miss stuff. Granted, a prospect isn’t a sure thing but the Reds have 3 guys that will likely make a decent impact at MLB in the future. Not bad for 3 months of Cueto in my opinion.

    • Redsfan48

      I love this trade for the Reds. If they held on to Cueto and he walked after the season after the Reds gave a qualifying offer, they only would get a 1st round draft pick. Finnegan was the Royals’ 2014 1st round pick (#17 overall). Reed was the Royals’ 2013 2nd round pick. I also think Finnegan will be a good MLB starter and I hope at least 1 of Reed/Lamb will pan out or be traded (either this year at the deadline, this offseason, or next year at the deadline) for a hitter, whether that’s a prospect or a Major League bat. If that happens I think this is a definite win for the Reds. I will miss Cueto but now I’m rooting for the Royals to go all the way to World Series Champs this year.

  1. David

    I knew this was coming, but it still makes me sad.

  2. msanmoore

    3 Lefties … much needed and seems to be pretty rare these days.

  3. Eric Wais

    Finnegan is supposedly the prize haul of this trade, but he’s a major league a middle reliever. Lamb has the upside of MAYBE a back of the rotation starter but that’s a big maybe, and Reed is 4 years away at a minimum and is a virtual unknown. Part of me is of the mind that it’s just about stock piling talent at this stage, whatever that talent might be, but I’m just sick of watching this team fill the farm system with pitchers year after year when the offense has been it’s downfall year after year. This is hopefully just the opening shot but I really don’t like that Walt Jocketty and Bryan Price are heading up this effort right now since it is easy to imagine both of them being gone in 6 months.

      • eric nyc

        Yeah but the 1 or 2 that are likely to make it are probably nothing but Manny Parra Light’s. Again, I realize that this is the result of having waited so long and it’s not like we were going to get a top 5 prospect for Cueto this late in the season, but it just feels like a sad return after everything we’ve poured into developing JC. It’s not a BAD trade, but it could have been a better trade if political forces hadn’t pushed it off so long.

      • Gaffer

        This sucks, Lamb is a Brandon Clausen, Finnegan by the Royals own site is “not a closer” and Aaron Crow with worse control. And the last guy is not even on anyone’s List!

      • lwblogger2

        Clausen’s arm was nothing like Lamb’s. He was the stereotypical “soft tossing, junk throwing, lefty”

    • rhayex

      You’re making a lot of pessimistic assumptions about what the Reds got back. Finnegan as a starter has 2-3 potential (with the upside of more – just like Cueto when he was a prospect), Lamb has the same potential if he’s back to form (which he is, reportedly), and Reed was ranked a high upside prospect by Kiley Mcdaniels of Fangraphs. This was not a bad trade.

      • Gaffer

        Lamb was not called up this year when they had no starters, why???

      • docmike

        Maybe the same reason Stephenson hasn’t been called up yet, he’s not ready?

    • Vicferrari

      What am I missing the guy pitched in the post-season his first year as a pro, he is 22 with 12 minor league starts. He has struck out 31 Major League batters in 31 innings in about a year out of college. Who would you rather have Hoover or Cingrani in the pen over him? Sounds like he might potentially be a starter

      • rmhowell

        I would agree. Especially with Cingrani, I haven’t really watched Finnegan but if he has great offspeed pitches, he’s already a leg up on Cingrani.

      • GeauxReds

        He sounds like another mike leake. I think we’d all take 6 years of that over 3 months of meaningless baseball from Johnny.

    • Cyrus

      To succeed today long-term, you need to stockpile pitching…and more pitching. Note that both the Royals and Cardinals have very few hitters with BAs at .300 and yet they boast the two best records in baseball. Why? Pitching and a combination of two of the following in the offensive department: low strikeout rate, high OBP, team speed, timely hitting. When you have great pitching, you are in every game and there is far less pressure on the offense to produce. What we are going to see increasingly over the coming decade (unless they change the rules to help the hitters) is that the teams with pitching are the teams making deep runs in October. And remember that the difference between a .250 and .300 hitter is oh so slight.

  4. Nick Carrington

    I think it’s a good return. Two potential starters with plenty of upside. I know some people with rightfully decry the lack of bats in this deal, but other deals may come. The deal with be better if they trade Chapman for a few position player prospects with upside.

    • Gaffer

      Agree, only because of what we get for Chapman. But they will not trade him.

      • Tom Gray

        I think they will but this winter. More return (probably) then.

        Reds traded Johnny Franco at his best in winter 1989. Got some guy named Myers in return.

      • Nick Carrington

        Could very well trade Chapman this winter. I hope they do it now though because teams in contention may be more willing to give up better talent if they think Chapman will make a difference in the playoffs.

    • eric nyc

      I don’t really mind the lack of bats – in a perfect world there would have been a legit hitting prospect in there somewhere but it’s not a perfect world and this is apparently what JC was worth on July 26th to the highest bidder. I just don’t know if any of these guys are legitimate SP prospects with the exception of Reed because he’s simply an unknown. Considering how we’ve handled Cingrani I don’t have any real hope that any of these guys become even back end SP’s. Maybe Lamb surprises us.

      • docmike

        Lamb absolutely looks like a starter. Finnegan maybe, or he may end up at the back of the bullpen.

      • eric nyc

        I hope Lamb surprises me. I just find it hard to get excited about guys who languish around in the minors with elbow injuries and then supposedly are JUST ABOUT set to finally break through. But again, I hope he surprises me.

      • docmike

        He’s had a strong year in AAA for the Royals. Apparently many of their fans were wondering why he hadn’t been called up yet.

        I bet he starts for the Reds at some point this year.

      • lwblogger2

        You’re acting like Lamb is a geezer with no stuff but he isn’t. He is a LHP who sits at 93 on his fastball, doesn’t walk a lot of guys, and seems to be back to his top-prospect form after Tommy John. He’s in the rotation next year. Heck, he’s be a call up and in the rotation for the Royals next year. His floor is a 4 starter and his ceiling is a 2. Cueto would have been worth more a momth ago but as a rental, this was a solid deal.

      • David Eberly

        Agree on all of this, but I think everybody is over-valuing what Cueto would have been worth a month ago . . . count me among those who believe that the pressure of the deadline helped make this trade a better one than they’d have gotten a month ago. . .

      • RedAlert

        Yep – has really good numbers at AAA this year

  5. Tom Reed

    Johnny joins his old buddy Edison Volquez in K.C. I hope they can help the Royals to a WS win.

    • I-71_Exile

      Agree. I’m now a Royals fan for a year—not for Volquez—but for JC. He was a class act all around.

      • docmike

        No, but I do remember Cueto fighting for his life when he got shoved up against the backstop during a brawl. A brawl that was triggered by that punk Yadier Molina.

      • I-71_Exile

        That brawl was unfortunate for both sides and I feel bad for LaRue—but let’s be realistic, his career was already over. He missed a few months of playing time as a back up catcher. He still drew a paycheck as far as I know.

      • dradg

        Um, actually Phillips instigated that fight. And I seriously doubt Cueto was “fighting for his life.” C’mon man. As I remember it (and correct me if I’m wrong) – Brandon stated that the Cards were WLB’s, and then in his first at-bat in his first game, he instigated by tapping Molina’s shinguard, after Molina kicked away Phillips’ bat one time already. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcQkRI8yKyw

      • Tom Diesman

        Yeah, that whole incident was on Phillips.

      • docmike

        No, it was Molina. Phillips may have mouthed off, but Molina was the one who started the physical brawl. And don’t give me any nonsense about Phillips tapping the shinguards, he did that to everybody back then. If Molina had stayed put in his catcher’s position, nothing would have happened.

        And yeah, Cueto probably felt like he was fighting for his life. Pinned up against a wall by a seething mass of people, he fought back any way he could. Any kicking he did was strictly in self-defense.

      • lwblogger2

        Yes, that kick did contribute to ending LaRue’s career but even Jason LaRue hasn’t put blame on Cueto. It was a messy and chaotic situation and Cueto was panicking trying to get off the wall. Even LaRue knows he wasn’t trying to kick LaRue in the head and seriously injure him.

      • dradg

        Replying to comments below – you’ve got to be kidding me re Molina starting the fight. Phillips tapped YM’s shingard, Molina kicked BP’s bat away, and BP tapped YM’s shinguard again! BP clearly wanted YM to react, and YM did not disappoint. What did BP expect YM to do?

        Agree re LaRue’s career ended because of the cumulative effect of dozens of concussions, where being kicked in the head by JC was the one that did LaRue in.

        Re JC “fearing for his life” – Baseball suspended JC for kicking LaRue in the face. If JC really “feared for his life” while being pushed into the backstop- seriously, you think he was going to be KILLED by being pushed into a fence?! – there were other ways to defend himself besides kicking a dude in the face. Baseball brawls typically involve little more than shoving, and this one was really not all that much different. I know JC was a young guy then, but I (and baseball, apparently), believed that he knew he should have had a cooler head during that “brawl.”

        All that said, I’m a huge JC fan. KC is the first team I remember winning the World Series, and I’ve always had a soft spot for the Royals. It will be even easier to pull for them this year. I’ll definitely miss watching him pitch for the Redlegs.

      • Steve Mancuso

        The violent part of the fight was instigated by Chris Carpenter. The Phillips-Molina skirmish was a pushing and shouting match, including Dusty Baker and Tony LaRussa going at each other. The dust-up had ended, with Scott Rolen pulling Baker away from LaRussa. As Rolen and Baker were walking back to the Reds dugout, they passed Carpenter. Carpenter said something to Baker that set Rolen off and he went after his former teammate. That restarted things and turned it into the pushing/shoving that led to the regrettable Cueto and LaRue exchange. I was sitting 20 feet away but couldn’t hear what Carpenter said. It must have been pretty terrible for Rolen, who was trying to play the role of peacemaker, to be so angry.

  6. rhayex

    KC fans are saying that Reed is actually the best piece to go in this trade. They’re really upset to lose him.

    • Nick Carrington

      Hard for me to believe that a guy who throws 89-91 (via baseball prospectus) is the guy they hate to lose.

    • eric nyc

      He’s 19 and only has a couple starts in AA. Nothing in his numbers are at all remarkable. I can’t pass any judgement on him being that young but I can’t imagine even your average baseball super fan could know much about him as a pro prospect yet.

      • I-71_Exile

        Just being in AA at 19 is impressive.

      • Vicferrari

        think you might a little bit off on the age, per report…
        Cody Reed was a second-round pick by the Royals in 2013 out of Northwest Mississippi Community College. Reed struggled in his first two seasons of professional baseball but took a major step forward this year. The 22-year old left-hander posted a 2.14 ERA in 67 1/3 innings for Wilmington before being promoted to AA Northwest Arkansas, where he had a 3.45 ERA in five starts.

        Sounds like he has got potential, probably plays for the Reds before their 2014 1st rounder and he might be younger

      • eric nyc

        You’re right. He’s 22. First link that came up on Google must have been an old scouting report. Per BRef he’s 22.

      • Kyle

        Yeah, mlbtraderumors had the link to the wrong Cody reed. The guy you mentioned has the same name, was a second rounder a year later, and is also a lhp. Odd.

  7. sezwhom

    I wouldn’t worry about the lack of “bats” in the Cueto deal. Those are coming soon.

  8. Tom Gray

    Clipped from Enquirer:

    Finnegan is 3-0 with a 2.986 ERA for the Royals.He pitched in the postseason last year after being picked in the June draft.

    Lamb, 25, is 9-1 with a 2.67 ERA at Triple-A. Reed, 22, is 7-7 with a 2.53 ERA at Double-A.

    • Vicferrari

      From a Royals website…
      John Lamb was a fifth-round draft pick out of high school by the Royals in 2008. The southpaw had an outstanding season in the low minors at the age of 19 in 2010, and was rated a top 20 prospect by both Baseball American and Baseball Prospectus. Lamb’s prospect status would take a hit that summer when he tore his ulnar collateral ligament and underwent Tommy John surgery. Lamb was not the same pitcher when he returned and had a dismal 2013 season. He rebounded a bit in 2014, but began to really impress in 2015 when he posted a 2.67 ERA in 17 starts for AAA Omaha with over a strikeout per inning. The 25-year old was named a AAA All-Star and was briefly on the Royals roster for a doubleheader back in early July, although he did not see Major League action.

      Sounds a bit risky, but encouraging …he might be legitimately Cueto’s replacement in the rotation Thursday

  9. Jeremy Conley

    Finnegan was a first round pick, but he’s got less than 90 professional innings and mostly as a reliever. It seems pretty optimistic to see him as a potential #2 starter right now.

    • Vicferrari

      How about as a reliever who does not blow 8 inning leads, that sure would be nice to have

  10. Steve Schoenbaechler

    scoutingbook.com has Finnegan and Lamb as #6 and #17 prospects in the Royals system; they don’t have Reed listed. Fangraphs seems to list Finnegan at #2, Lamb and Reed not listed.

    Lamb seems to still be struggling to come back from TJS but is having a good year at AAA.

    Finnegan seems to have some shoulder stiffness but is talked by some to have the best stuff overall. He has been with the big club. First round draft pick last season.

    Reed seems to be rounding into form at a starter but is still only at AA.

    I like to see that we got some lefties, since our minors seem to be doing nothing in developing lefties. As for how they will figure in compensation for Cueto, that will probably be a short and long term aspect to see. For, all three of these are 25 years old or younger, so each could still have a long career ahead. Not to mention how hard it can be to have lefties.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      I believe all of them have some experience starting. Who starts or gets stretched to start, we will see.

    • Vicferrari

      From what I posted from article a few comments above this one, he is no longer struggling after 2012 surgery. Made the AAA All-stars this year, good K rate, I am feeling optimistic we see him this season

  11. darrin

    as much as i hate to see cueto go, and i really do, i don’ know how much more the redlegs could have got for a few month loaner. i think they did well. hopefully a position player or two is still to be addressed. dunno what kind of quality since chapman is off the table tho.

    • eric nyc

      Did I miss something? Why is Chapman off the table?

      • darrin

        i thought i read that. maybe i’m mistaken….i hope so.

      • eric nyc

        Last I heard they were setting the price VERY high for him so there was some conjecture no one would go for it, but you have to set the price that high. I think they’ll move him this year and I think the haul they get for him will make this trade look insignificant. I expect to get a top ranked position player in the Chapman deal. There’s been talk of Chapman and BP to the Yankees who have a bunch of good young offensive prospects.

      • darrin

        i guess i just assumed they were setting the price so high because they weren’t interested in trading him. you know what they say when you assume things? that you shouldn’t do it, i think that’s what they say.

      • Vicferrari

        Rumor mill is that other owners have felt that Reds were not realistic entertaining any offers

      • Evan armstrong

        He is under contract through next season and he lights up the ballpark every time he pitches and the owner loves that.

      • eric nyc

        Castellini has officially given the green light to move anybody on the club. He is rightfully demanding a steep price for Chapman who is easily the biggest trading piece we have, but they’ll move him for the right price and someone will give us the right price.

      • Evan armstrong

        I would be shocked if Walt deals Chapman now. I think this off season they will sit down and see what a contract extension would be and only then move him if an extension is not doable.

      • eric nyc

        Couldn’t disagree more. And if this team signs Chapman to an extension for the money it will cost in the state this franchise is in, I’ll be rooting for another team from now on. I don’t know what about the Cueto trade makes you think a Chapman trade is LESS likely. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a complete fire sale in the next 72 hours. Reports are they had all of their energy on getting the Cueto deal done first since it was the most time sensitive but now the floodgates are open.

  12. Jeremy Conley

    Scouting reports on Finnegan describe his secondary pitches as below average, but a mid to high 90s fastball. Sounds like he may be the next Chapman rather than the next Cueto.

    • Nick Carrington

      He was pitching in college last year, so I think we should give him time to develop secondary pitches. He won’t be Cueto or Chapman, but he may be a solid starter and has already proven he can get major league hitters out in the bullpen.

      • Jeremy Conley

        I don’t think anything is ever proven in 31 innings. Obviously he’ll get all the time the Reds can give him, but he’s not type of talent I was hoping the Reds could get for Cueto. If they were going to go for pitching, I would have liked to see a real starting pitching prospect, not a reliever that they hope they can teach secondary pitches (Cingrani anyone?) and a 25 year old with significant injury concerns.

      • Nick Carrington

        That’s fair. I’m less concerned about Lamb in terms of injury than you apparently, but I understand the concern. His velocity is back, and he is pitching well. Cingrani is a small sample size. I don’t know what will happen with Finnegan, but he was drafted 17th overall to be a starter and the Royals decided he could help them in a playoff run instead. My hope is that someone drafted 17th overall has the potential for solid secondary stuff.

        I wasn’t expecting more than this for two months of Cueto. I was prepared for less. But again, your concerns seems valid to me.

      • Jeremy Conley

        Yeah, I’m not really down on the trade. I hope all 3 work out, and it seems possible than they all could be good. I would have liked a different mix of guys, but it’s not a terrible deal by any stretch.

        As for Lamb, I don’t really know his situation well, so maybe his injury isn’t a big deal. He only pitched 160 innings over the course of 3 years though, and that’s certainly a pretty big red flag.

      • greenmtred

        I know nothing about these guys, but suspect that the odds are very slight that any of them become as good as Cueto.

      • docmike

        Green, I agree with you in that I would be shocked if any of these guys turn out as good Cueto.

        But the question really is, will these three guys give the Reds more value over the next several years than Cueto would have given them over the next two months? I am betting that they do.

    • Vicferrari

      Sounds to me like the next Cingrani

    • MrRed

      Nothing about Chapman’s slider is below average or his changeup (if he chooses to throw it). I would give the kid a shot to develop a little more before coming to a conclusion on pitch qualities. He’s 22 and has shown glimpses of throwing a very effective change up and curve.

  13. Steve Schoenbaechler

    Now for Leake. I can’t help thinking we lock him up. For, I just can’t see going into next season with Lorenzen and DeSc as are #1 and #2 guys. I am assuming, and I believe what will most likely happen, Homer isn’t going to be ready at the beginning of next season. Not to mention, once he does get back, there is no guarantee he’s going to be anywhere near the level he was, especially with this medical/training staff we have. If we let Leake go, I believe we relegate ourselves to going after a FA starting pitcher next season.

    • Carl Sayre

      I wouldn’t mind overpaying for Leake on a 2 year deal or 1 and a players option. I agree with you Steve While I do believe that Lorenzen and Disco are goint to prominent in the Reds going forward, Leake short term appeals to me.

      • lwblogger2

        2 or 3 years isn’t going to do it. I think the floor is going to be 4yrs/$48-million and I think that 5yrs/$80-million isn’t out of the question if he has a real strong 2nd half.

  14. Ben

    Can someone explain how long we have the new guys “under control.” That will affect my level of satisfaction with this trade.

    • Jeremy Conley

      only finnegan has had any time in the majors. we will control him for 5 more years, two pre-arb and 3 where he’ll be arbitration eligible.

      the other two we would have 6+ years of control, depending on when they are called up.

  15. JB WV

    Generally, Jocketty has done a solid job making trades. The scouting dept. seems to know what they’re doing. Like most of you, I’m disappointed they didn’t get a bat, but if you’re going to get pitching, lefties for this club were a must.

  16. Evan armstrong

    There are only two facts we know right now. If we kept Cueto all we would have gotten was a compensation pick and we will have no clue of the true value of the return till at least 2017 at the earliest. Deal is done and now on to the remaining games left in this season to enjoy.

    • Michael E

      ..and if Cueto had gotten injured, we likely would not have tendered him and thus no compensation pick, no NOTHING. I’d rather have THREE promising LHP than nothing or even pick 34 in the draft or something.

  17. UNC Reds Fan

    This is a horrible get…three pitchers??? Walt catch up with the times, pitching doesn’t in ball games, hitting does and how does this help the Reds hit…major fail

    • Vicferrari

      You may want to reevaluate that after looking at what the Cards accomplish with a mediocre Jason Heyward leading them and a line-up half filled with AAA batters

      • Michael E

        BINGO! Or the Braves of the 90s and most of the 00s. They only got one title, but anyone would kill to win like 13 straight division titles…all on the back of stud rotations, solid bullpens and below average offenses (most of the time). Only Chipper Jones was consistently above average on those lineups.

    • Michael E

      Pitching ALWAYS wins over hitting. You have fallen for the kool-aid some of these RLN writers are pouring. Just because the stats on offense have trended down (and pitching up), doesn’t make pitching less valuable. It just means a valuable pitcher is no longer one with a 3.50 ERA, instead a 2.50 ERA is quite valuable and a 2.00 ERA is all-star. Ten years ago, a 4.00 ERA was good and anything below 3.00 was great.

      A good hitter is still as easy to find as a good pitcher (no change). A good pitcher always shuts down a slew of good hitters in the post-season and all season. Better to have the best rotation and below average hitting, than the best lineup and below average pitching. ALWAYS

  18. Redlegg

    Seems to me getting three lefties with pro experience outweighs getting a comp pick. I doubt any are Jonny C level but neither is the one comp pick we would have gotten either.

    • Michael E

      not outweighs…it BLOWS away a compensation pick around pick 34 or so. Not even close. Cueto could have blown out his arm next month and no tender then no comp pick either.

    • Michael E

      Plus these three are ALL closer to MLB than any comp pick that we wouldn’t see till 2018 at the earliest.

  19. Indy Red Man

    This John Lamb guy might be the next Tom Browning? 2.67 era is pretty impressive…..esp in the PCL! Hopefully he’ll get in the rotation asap and we can see how he looks?

  20. Tom Reed

    We’ll see how things work out, but three left handers for Cueto looks promising. Especially if at least one ends up as a starter and the other one or two could strengthen the bullpen. The lack of a dependable left handed starting pitcher has been obvious going back almost to Milton.

  21. beroader

    In regards to not getting a bat in this deal, my understanding of the Royals minor league system right now is that it’s pretty light on bats. So, with the Royals as a trade partner, there was probably not much to pick from and they may not have been willing to part with what little they had.

    We may get bats out of trading Leake or Chapman. Or we may get a bat from trading from our surplus of pitching. Getting three LHPs in this deal doesn’t bother me.

  22. Jeremy Conley

    Before the season John Sickles graded Finnegan as A-/B+, Lamb as a C, and Reed as not that good.

    I would assume that those grades would have changed now because Finnegan hasn’t started in the majors and Lamb has put together a good season. So maybe B+ and B-

  23. jamesgarrett

    Tom is right on the mark.Time will tell but 3 lefties is a good haul.The Royals site says Finnegan was drafted to be a starter but road to the big leagues was quicker as a reliever.Also saw where Reds were sending him to Louisville to get stretched out.He and Finnegan were on Royals 40 man roster.

  24. jamesgarrett

    Oops I meant Finnegan and Lamb were on 40 man roster

  25. Evan armstrong

    Reports are Lamb and Finnagan to AAA and the other kid to AA tomorrow.

  26. jamesgarrett

    I am happy.We got 3 young guys that throw left handed and with above average velocity,We haven’t had that in our system in a long time.

  27. docmike

    Lamb may be going to AAA right now, but I bet he’s back up and starting for the Reds at some point this year. Especially if Leake is dealt.

  28. Carl Sayre

    Had the Royals had a major league starter available he would have been with them already and probably would not have been available in this trade. I see 2 legitimate ML prospects and a throw in, with all 3 of them throwing from the wrong side I like the deal for 3 months of Cueto. He is a fine number 1 starter and I will miss him in a Reds uniform but he could only start every 5th day and is not a hitter so he wasn’t going to get us to the post season. The bull pen needs help and if that is all this trade does is help a very weak pen then maybe one our homegrown pitchers will be the answer. Has anything been said about Cueto’s spot in the rotation, it looks like these three are headed to the minors.

  29. thecoastman

    Cody Reed is being called a sleeper to watch with 4 plus pitches after some mechanical changes this year. I am really liking this trade the more I look at these kids. For a half year rental this was a huge price to pay, but if Cueto gets them to the WS again I suppose it is worth it for KC. The upside for all three of these guys is pretty high. Hey, we could have gotten taken to the cleaners like Beane did getting two single A guys for Kashmir.

    • docmike

      That single A catcher the A’s got back is tearing it up this year.

      • thecoastman

        Yea, but it is generally regarded that the toughest jump is single A to double so that was my point. They may both become big time studs, but when you trade for single A guys the odds of paying off are way lower. That was my fear. We have two guys pretty much major league ready and a guy that has made that AA jump as a lefty that touches 98. I would take our haul any day over the Kashmir haul.

  30. Tom Diesman

    I’m pleasantly surprised that I really like this trade. I had low hopes for Jocketty after seeing the return for Griffey and Dunn his first year on the job for Cincy. My gut says that Finnegan ends up in the bullpen, and that Lamb and Finnegan, who are both are on the rise will surprise. Here’s hoping that Walt can pleasantly surprise me again soon with both Leake and Chapman, and get some offense this time.

  31. Buck Rider

    I haven’t seen this mentioned anywhere here, but in his last start, Cody Reed retired the first 20 batters he faced, and he ended up with a one-hitter while fanning seven over seven scoreless innings as Class A Short Season Hillsboro blanked Eugene, 2-0. They only play 7 inning games in the Class A short season games.

  32. Buck Rider

    … also, opponents are only hitting .150 against Cody Reed in his first 34 1/3 innings this season.

  33. lvw100

    I’m not sure his high effort delivery will afford him the stamina to be a starter,

    • lwblogger2

      I think that he’s the biggest injury risk of the 3. His delivery is violent.

  34. thecoastman

    Couple of quotes on the trade from the talking heads:

    “Reds did really well with getting three power arms in Brandon Finnegan, John Lamb and Cody Reed, but it’s a deal the Royals needed to make.”

    “Solid return for 3 months of cueto, IMO. If Finnegan can start (big if) it’s a nice gamble. Reed took big steps forward this year.”

    “Much like Nottingham in the Kazmir trade, new Reds LHP Cody Reed is significantly better than preseason reports: velo/slider/cmd all better.”

    “Cody Reed is the sleeper. Great arm/control issues before this year, but made mechanical changes, improved CHG to go with 92-97 FB.”

  35. WVRedlegs

    Thank you Johnny Cueto for all you did as a Red. And thank you for helping the Reds really put a dent into a big organizational weakness, little LH pitching. As much as it hurts to see him go, it is very nice to see what is in the return. Now its time to get some sticks back in the remaining trades.
    I look for Finnegan to be in the bullpen within 2 weeks.

    • thecoastman

      Jocketty says they see Finnegan as a starter so you may see him get stretched out at Louisville. But, yea, three power arm lefties? What’s not to love here.

  36. thecoastman

    Lorenzen just got hammered for 8 runs in 2 1/3 so they may need some new starters sooner than later. I still love Lorenzen, but what a brutal afternoon.

    • jessecuster44

      Karma for telling Johnny he was being traded.

  37. Shchi Cossack

    We have the remainder of the 2015 season to establish a track record for the 3 new Reds prospects, but right now, MLB has Reed slotted as the #7 prospect in the Reds system and Lamb slotted as the #13 prospect in the Reds system. Finnegan is no longer eligible as a prospect, but has much less than a year of major league service time and is headed to the minor leagues. The Reds could have 6 full years of control for all 3 players as compared to 2 months for Cueto.

    I’m anxious to gets Doug’s analysis and take on the 3 new additions, but the pitching staff for 2016 looks shaky at best as the youngsters get their major league legs under them. Development of prospects for the future (hopefully the near future) is all we have left for 2015 and we now have 3 new prospects to track.

    • eric nyc

      Oh I don’t think anyone thinks we should have kept Cueto over taking this deal. Again, I’m just more upset we didn’t deal him a month or two ago when his value would have been much higher. I do think this is the best return any GM could have gotten for him, and I think offense will come with the moves we make in the next few days. I think Chapman could easily bring back someone’s top-ranked position prospect and some pitching depth. The question is what do you do if you move Frazier and Bruce. You’re going to have to be VERY picky about what you get in return because you can’t just end up with a mountain of pitching prospects given the state of our offensive farm system.

      • Michael E

        Unless we nab a stud, top 2 prospect pitcher from another team, I’d just as soon see all bats coming back and QUALITY (top 3 or top 5) over quantity (mediocre). One great bat over three middling ones.

    • Michael E

      FWIW, Finnegan was #4 on KC list as of 7/14 (I saved a bunch of teams to make sure I had their ratings before the trade to us). Lamb was not on the KC list (probably hadn’t been updated since start of season). Reed was #26.

  38. eric nyc

    The more I read up on these guys the more I’m warming to this trade. The general media consensus is it was a fair trade all around as the Royals gave up a decent amount but got exactly what they need. And if they can squeeze a WS ring out of it then it’s worth it on their end. It’s all pretty contingent on Finnegan and if he can actually be a front of the rotation starter. I’m worried that there isn’t a real ace anywhere in this organization right now, though. But it’s not like those grow on trees, clearly. And realistically we have a couple years to see if one of our guys can turn into that or if we have to make a move to get one.

    • Tyler Burdett

      Robert Stephenson is a legitimate front of the rotation starter. Finnegan will be a nice #2 next to him in the future. Walt did a nice job getting pieces for the future.

      • eric nyc

        Stephenson is generally considered to have a Homer Bailey-type ceiling. That’s fine, but I don’t think he’s a future ace.

    • Michael E

      all LHP…loving that. We have been so RHP heavy for the better part of 40 years it is silly.

  39. GeauxReds

    I am surprised no one has pointed out how poorly Johnny has performed in the post season. Sure he was fantastic in 2012, 2014, and 2015 regular seasons, but his track record in big games should give the Royals pause. I hate to see him go, and I hope he gets a ring and then signs with the Reds, but this has to be said. To get a MLB ready pitcher out of this plus two others who could contribute next year is an amazing haul. We despaprately need help in the bullpen and lefties. I say we got the better end of this deal unless KC wins the world series. Then it is a draw.

  40. redsfan06

    I’m glad Cueto’s last start as a Red was a good one – no runs given up. He was the best pitcher the organization has ever had and it was nice to see him finish strong.

    • Tom Reed

      Cueto has been an outstanding pitcher for the Reds and I hate to see him go. But the best pitcher the organization has ever had? How about Bucky Walters, Paul Derringer, Johnny Vander Meer, and Dolf Luque?

      • ManuelT

        I tent to downgrade guys who pitched before the color line was broken. How many of them did?

      • redsfan06

        Those others pitched for the Reds much longer and you can certainly make a case for them. None of them approach Cueto’s ERA+

        Either way, if you have to go back to pre WWII players, Cueto is certainly amongst the best.

  41. HerpyDerp

    Why does everyone harp on left-handed starting pitching being a rare and desired commodity when most batters are right-handed, giving the batter (usually) an advantage?

    • Michael E

      Being rare, makes lefties harder to hit for righties than lefty hitters hitting righty pitchers. I used to think like you, but many lineups these days are more LH heavy than RH heave (check the Reds with Votto and Bruce and only Frazier as a good RH bat this year).

    • Michael E

      That said, I will take a stud pitcher no matter if he throws left or right over a non-stud lefty and so on. Talent trumps the intangibles of matchups or deception.

    • Michael E

      …and for the Reds, getting a LHP is nearly impossible (check their rosters the past 40 years). They simply forget to draft, develop, sign or trade for them for whatever reason.

      These three are ALL big boys too, with very good velocity (none are FLAME throwers, but all have average or better fastballs).

      • Tom Gray

        OK 40 years. Back to 1975. Don Gullett was ace LH starter then. Will McEnaney was solid LH reliever. Joe Price was decent LHP in late 1970’s. Some guy named Tom Browning was pretty good LHP for Reds. Danny Jackson was acquired in a late 1980’s trade. Johnny Franco was acquired in mid 1980’s trade.

        Just to name a few off the top of my head.

      • Michael E

        Yeah, proving my point. We have so few decent LHP in the rotation that after about 5 or 6 you stop. That is among about 200+ SPs over those 40 years we’ve ran out to the mound. Think about that.

      • Michael E

        Honestly, the Reds have always had terrible pitching until about 5 years ago. Most seasons our SP1 was another teams SP4. It’s true we haven’t exactly had alot of good RHP either, but your list (I include one or two years of Pete Shourek) is pretty short for 40 years. Gullet and Jackson cut short by injuries as well (especially Jackson).

  42. doctor

    They say competition makes everyone better, sure looks like reds added 3 guys to challenge in Spring Training for rotations spots, or push for bullpen if starting does not pan out.

    Brandon Finnegan was a college junior last year(2014) and had a dominating year for TCU as a starter before being drafted in 1st round by Royals and showing enough polish and stuff in the minors to be called up to help Royals run to the World Series. So that has to mean something. He will be 23 in april 2016.

    John Lamb has made 46 AAA in PCL the past 3 years while coming back from TJ surgery, posting a 3.65 era with 8.6 K/9. Given PCL reputation as offensive league, looks promising especially given Lamb excellent 2015 year so far. He turned 25 in july.

    Cody Reed been a starter full time last two years in Royals minors. So still learning his craft, and is having his best pro year. He will be 23 in april 2016.

  43. seanuc

    I think this is an excellent trade given what we know of these prospects. The starting pitching we have lost in the last two years is incredible: Arroyo, Latos, Cueto, Simon, and presumably Leake. Shoring up the pipeline with three lefties with MLB potential is a good return and precisely what we need for the future, particularly given that a high OBP, MLB ready LF was not going to materialize from the likely trade partners. I’m not sure this trade tells us anything about whether this is a re-tool or a re-build, but my guess would be the former, where Leake and Byrd are dealt this week and Bruce/Chapman stay.

  44. Myron Gaines

    I am pleasantly surprised with the return and the timing of this trade.

    Now let’s see a Chapman + Brandon Phillips move!

  45. Redleg 68

    I think Walt did well with this trade. I think Leake goes to the Blue Jays who really needs an inning eating starter..

  46. bcw56

    Maybe someday in some magical world we could have a season where players as good as Cueto, Chapman, Frazier, Bruce, Phillips and Votto were all in their primes together…. oh right….. and then we refused to attend to the final 7-8 roster spots in order to build a winner. This is a joke. Arguing about what prospect might do what someday, gimme a break. We had the confluence of luck and team building the last 5 years and management proved incapable of sealing the deal on the easiest parts of the roster. As much as I love the Reds, I just can’t put any faith in this management team. I will still maintain that this team – particularly as it is committed to BP, Votto and Homer like it or not – is closer to contending than re-contending. This is gonna be a decade of disaster.

    • Tom Gray

      Same management team (except manager) made a team that had 3 NL playoff appearances in 4 years (2010 through 2013).

    • jessecuster44

      I could not put it any better than that first sentence. Management had its shot, and they DID NOT TAKE IT with this crew. They said they did, but they didn’t. It’s like they were afraid to push the chips in.

      Just making the playoffs 2010, 2012, 2013 was a significant underachievement, given the talent of Votto, Bruce, BP, Cueto, Leake, Bailey, Chappy…

      This was a good trade, but how about addressing the significant lack of offense (OBP) next?

    • Michael E

      I agree too, but thats the past, so trade a few non-essential pieces OR pieces we’ll lose anyway (Cueto) and restock and reload and make us feel BETTER about 2017 and beyond, even if 2016 could be a downer. Most teams have to do this.

  47. Tom Gray

    Old baseball adage is that you can never have too many LHP.

    I like acquiring 3 promising LHP for Cueto. He was gone anyway. If 1 or maybe 2 become MLB players, trade works for Reds. 1 or 2 players in exchange for 2 or 3 more months.

  48. jamesgarrett

    We weren’t going to sign Cueto that was a given.Three young power arms that are left handed is a good trade in my mind.Got to be patient and see what happens.I would take the same thing for Leake and he happy again.Can’t have enough pitching.

    • vegastypo

      Agreed. And who is to say that some combination of young, team-controlled pitchers can’t be turned into an awaited bat. It’s too soon to tell.

  49. WVRedlegs

    I saw the Toronto Star sports writer said that the Reds wanted Marcus Stroman in any return package, but Toronto finally folded. That is exactly who I wanted from Toronto, so I have to give Jocketty credit for sticking to his guns there and give him credit for a nice trade. The longer this dragged out, the less and less confident I felt Jocketty would get quality almost ready ML players back.
    Finnegan was selected two spots ahead (#17) of the Reds 1st round draft pick last year, Nick Howard (#19). Two totally different trajectories for those two. This trade helps bring a little redemption for that very bad draft pick.
    Those criticizing the trade because no offense was included, just look at the trade partner, KC. Not much with offensive prospects near ML ready. So Jocketty did well, this time. A couple or three still to go.