Other than live sporting events on TV or online, I get my news via Twitter now. Other methods are molasses-slow by comparison. With no local or national televised broadcast of today’s game, that’s the way I first learned the details about Zack Cozart. In retrospect, 140-character messages were the easiest way to absorb the blow.

At 12:45 p.m., my feed filled up with reports that Zack Cozart had suffered what appeared to be a serious knee injury. It’s in no way fair that a player who gives his best every play of every inning of every game hurt himself on hustle, trying to beat out a ground ball out at first. At the time, the radio broadcast team didn’t know a diagnosis, of course. But their gloomy tone spoke volumes. Jeff Brantley is no doctor, but he’s been around enough sporting events that his simple statement was likely to be dead-on: When you have to be carried off, that’s not a good thing.

Coz2

Redleg Nation has been holding its collective breath for almost three hours, waiting for the diagnosis. Meanwhile, the video of the play was released (warning: gruesome injury to popular player). And, of course, there were GIFs on Twitter:

The Reds haven’t disclosed the extent of Cozart’s injury. They may have to wait for swelling to go down before they do an MRI. But you’d have to put your money on a heartbreaking sentence with “season-ending” somewhere.

Zack Cozart was having the best season of his career, by far. On pace for 25 home runs. He’d cut his strikeout-rate and raised his walk-rate. All the while, he continued to play Gold Glove defense at shortstop. Cozart was among league leaders in several defensive metrics for shortstops. He deserves to be chosen for the upcoming All-Star game in Cincinnati.

He made all the plays.

I just have one more word about Cozart’s injury.

Uncle.

UncIe, to whomever is responsible for the injuries last year to Joey Votto, Jay Bruce, Devin Mesoraco, Aroldis Chapman, Sean Marshall, Homer Bailey, Matt Latos, Brandon Phillips and Tony Cingrani.

Uncle, to whomever gave Devin Mesoraco a condition that allowed him to catch only a handful of games and then sentenced him to navigate a new position just so he can bat for a few weeks.

Uncle, to whomever let Homer Bailey return from one surgery and six months of rehab only to give him another injury requiring surgery and a year of rehab. (Bailey was spotted in the clubhouse the past two days, without a brace.)

Uncle, to the whomever has given Brandon Phillips a series of nagging injuries. And put Marlon Byrd on the DL. And Billy Hamilton on the bench.

Uncle, to whomever has now likely taken Zack Cozart’s wonderful game from us.

Yes, other teams have injuries, too. This isn’t about fairness. And I’m not giving up on the team.

I’d just like to watch them play.

Reds 4, Phillies 2 | FanGraphs Stuff | Doug Gray on Draft Picks

For the second game in a row, the Reds scored four runs in the first inning, something they hadn’t done all year before yesterday. Ivan De Jesus hit a second three-run homer (video) this week. Todd Frazier made an excellent defensive play fielding a pop-up in the visiting dug-out (video). He also had two hits and scored two runs. Brayan Peña had four hits

Pitcher Jon Moscot, making his second start for the Reds, went 6 innings. He gave up six hits and two walks. He struck out two. Jeff Brantley observed that Moscot was pitching with more confidence than in his previous start. Ryan Mattheus and Tony Cingrani managed to get through the seventh inning without giving up a run. J.J. Hoover pitched the eighth and still hasn’t given up a home run this year. He’s had 22 straight appearances without giving up a run. That’ll do. Time to turn the page on Hoover Sucks. Aroldis Chapman, another 3-run save.

By the middle of the game, the Reds were playing with such a short lineup, in the sixth inning with a two-run lead, they let a pitcher hit even though he was going to be removed from the game. A pitcher without a major league hit. John Moscot, of course, singled. Apparently he can hit some.

The Reds ended up winning this game 5-2. They swept the hapless, terrible Philadelphia Phillies, a team with the ninth-highest payroll and worst record. The Reds are 27-31, four games from .500. They’ve won four in a row and at the moment, I can’t feel the slightest bit of joy from that.

Coz

104 Responses

  1. WVRedlegs

    This injury to Cozart is so unfortunate. He was heading for an all-star nod. With this injury, I’m afraid the Reds will drag their feet on BP’s status now.
    Moscot rebounded well. Nice outing.
    We’ll get to see what Suarez is made of for a while it would appear. Frazier, Votto, Bruce and Pena will have to hold this thing together with new green re-inforcements.

    • Tom Gray

      Davey Concepcion in 1973.

      Something pretty similar happened to him. Injured his leg sliding into 3B as All-Star game approached and he was having his best season as a Red.

      Darrell Chaney stepped in at SS for him.

      • i71_Exile

        I remember that day—even as an eight year old. Hopefully Cozart will pick up right where he left off when he returns. He really was having a fantastic year.

    • Redsfan48

      I looked at Suárez’s numbers in AAA, and they were nearly identical to Cozart’s numbers in the majors this year. 8 HRs to Cozart’s 9, .256 batting avg to Cozart’s .258, .438 slugging to Cozart’s .459. Only big difference was OBP, where Suárez had a .348 to Cozart’s .310. If Suárez’s numbers can stay close to that, he could be a more than adequate replacement. But of course, nobody will be able to be as good defensively as Cozart was.

  2. lwblogger2

    Just a huge blow for Cozart and for the Reds. It’s one thing to lose with most your parts together as a team, it’s another when the losing year is accompanied by injury after injury, and most seemingly pretty serious. This team is playing like a team over the last 13 games or so but the injuries just keep on coming. It’s not an excuse but when a team is missing it’s entire middle infield, it’s free-agent starting LF, It’s #2 starting pitcher, It’s slugging starting catcher (a rare commodity), and has other guys banged up, it’s tough to try to compete. Walt hasn’t done a good job of building depth but really no team can build the kind of depth that would be required.

    Let’s hope Cozart’s injury isn’t as bad as any of us suspect that it is. Hope is what we’ve got.

    • greenmtred

      I second everything you’ve said. The Reds were quietly starting to look like a team that isn’t toast, not ready to be given up upon, and now this. They may have enough character to hold this together, but it would be really amazing if they have the players now, with the entire up-the-middle starting 4 gone for however long they are gone. More than anything, I feel terrible for Zach.

  3. lwblogger2

    The other thing a serious Cozart injury would do is give the Reds one less trading piece that they could play should the team decide to go into rebuild mode. Just a shame for both Cozart and the Reds at many different levels.

  4. JB WV

    Is Price a great manager? Probably not. But he deserves a chance with a relatively healthy club. I thought after last year the tide would turn and this team would stay healthy. So much for that.

    • jdx19

      His bullpen has been mostly healthy, and that seems to be what people gripe about the most.

      Sad news for Zack. It doesn’t look good from my vantage point. If Suarez isn’t already on his way to Cincy, then the Reds fail.

      • reaganspad

        Bullpen and his mis use of LF. Stayed with Byrd way too long. Could have had Mesoraco out there a month ago.

        Tucker and Pena are getting it done at catcher.

        As for handling the staff, he stayed with Jumbo way too long. He stayed with Marquis way to long, Ondrusek, Hoover.

        Fortunately Hoover has rebounded nicely. The others, I would like to see some impatience. Now he has another injury to deal with.

        I feel bad for Price, but he has to grow up through this mess. Maybe he will yet emerge as a leader for this team.

        If they slide like last year in the 2nd half, he may be in jeopardy…

      • ohiojimw

        I can’t believe I’m defending Price but bet the last cent in your pockets that the Mesoraco decisions weren’t being made by Price. He probably had even very little to no input in them. That was highest level front office, medical staff territory no doubt in collaboration with the player’s agent and the ultimately the player himself.

      • CP

        “Stayed with Byrd way too long…”

        There were/are no alternatives to Byrd. You say Mesoraco, but I doubt there is a team in the majors who moves an injured Mesoraco immediately to LF. Heck, he has another giant offensive black hole playing CF, and Bruce was also struggling mightily at the time. Price has made some mistakes, but LF is not one of them.

        Bullpen isn’t radically different either. He has erred in not pitching Chapman and Cingrani more often. But someone has to eat some innings in that bullpen, and virtually everyone there has struggled.

        I’m a Hoover fan but jeez, if you are sitting in Price’s shoes, you don’t immediately trust 2015 Hoover, after sitting through 2014 Hoover. He has many of the same issues after all, still has a 4+ BB/9, and is striking out even less. Price is probably right in assuming Hoover’s benefited from the positive side of “luck” or variance.

      • DHud

        Ondrusek was released last winter. He’s been in Japan since January…

      • reaganspad

        DHUD,

        I was referring to the use of the pen this year and last talking about Ondu and Hoover.

      • Vicferrari

        I am with CP, I am pretty sure Byrd had an OPS over 1.000 since April 22nd, if anything this is one of his better moves of staying with Byrd who got off to such a slow start.
        It is seriously hard to fault him for his bullpen use, who had Parra and Hoover being the most reliable??? Would anybody say he has misused Chapman? I will give not using Cingrani over Greg, Badenhop, Jumbo is pretty bizarre and he seems to be turning him into a head case but Tony has got to be a man and get hitters like Alonso out when called upon.
        I believe a manager matters when a team has great role players, right now the Reds are far from that, to me Price is a non-factor but I doubt he would be one to keep when they do get the role players so I am not advocating that he shoudl or should not be fired

  5. WVRedlegs

    If it is an ACL injury for Cozart, at his age, that might spell the end as a Shortstop, if the injury reduces his range. I’ve always thought that he could be a good second baseman.
    Grabbing for a silver lining, the timing of this injury gives the Reds some time to audition Suarez for the SS job. If he can’t cut it, the Reds should consider a SS in return in any late July trade packages they get for Leake/Cueto and possibly Chapman.

    • Jeremy Conley

      Ok, that’s probably a bridge too far at this point. Let’s at least hear what the injury actually is before we put Cozart out to pasture.

      • greenmtred

        Appreciate the perspective, Jeremy. I think that a lot of us have become knee-jerk pessimists this year and last, if we weren’t already. Even relatively non-serious knee injuries (partial meniscus tear) can leave you unable to walk in their immediate aftermath so, you are absolutely right: Let’s wait for the diagnosis before we tie heavy things around our waists and jump overboard.

      • WVRedlegs

        Nothing mentioned about putting Cozart out to pasture. To me, “putting out to pasture” means retirement. All I said was possible position change to 2B, if it is a serious injury. It certainly looked like a serious injury.
        That is two entirely different scenarios.
        Cozart had his MRI this afternoon, according to the Cincinnati Enquirer. And they said that Dr. Kremcheck will review it this evening. But that means that a radiologist has more than likely reviewed it too already, and they have some kind of idea the extent of his injury. And Price’s comment that he’ll be on the DL for some time, doesn’t bode very well at this time.

      • Brian Schoettmer

        It’s an ACL injury, and likely other ligaments. The announcement will just be a formality.

    • i71_Exile

      I was thinking that he needs to contact Adrian Peterson and find out what worked for him in his rehab. AP works hard, but I suspect that Cozart is up for it.

    • Michael E

      Nearly all athletes come back from ACL or MCL surgeries in pretty good shape. Obviously any that have a job that rely solely on the legs and the need to be tip top great there, might struggle to regain form (RBs in football, PGs in basketball, etc).

      As for Cozart, if he has a major ligament issue, he’ll be rehabbing for a solid year and probably would be a little unsure until 2017. He should be just fine for SS, but next season would be one of those “I don’t quite trust my knee yet, I keep thinking its going to blowout again” kind of play. Even then, he could man SS and still be a good fielder, albeit one with two or three feet less range to both sides (noticeable once every other game probably).

  6. IndyRedMan

    What a shame for Zack! I knew he could be a decent hitter again if he could get on top of the ball instead of popping up all the time. The ball has always jumped off his bat and his glove has always been GG level.
    As far as the team goes….its a shame that Reds fans couldn’t run this team by votes or something because Gregg and Marquis would’ve never made the team and DeJesus would’ve got called up a month ago. He’s done more damage in 3-4 games than the rest of their bench put together minus Barnhart.

  7. renbutler

    Is it too early to reinstate Mesoraco? Honestly, I don’t have a firm grasp on how these things work.

    • ohiojimw

      He went on the DL around 25 May, So his 15 day minimum would be up. Question is how much time does he need to get his bat tuned up and would be be a danger to himself and the team in LF (from his play; he’s been cleared on the injury front)

      • Vicferrari

        I doubt he is ready a 1B and walk in 7 PA with 3 K’s. How many chances did he get in the OF anyway. Leave him AAA thru the weekend and let him DH in Detroit

  8. Jeff

    Worst win in quite sometime. I had Cozart as my bounce back player this year in the Redleg Nation preseason picks and I was ecstatic how right I was looking. I love watching him play defense and really was just hoping for a little bounce off the bottom of last year.
    I know it’s early and we don’t know anything, but I feel terrible for Cozart. I’m holding out hope for something minor, but it doesn’t look good.

  9. IndyRedMan

    For you old timers that ankle looks like Tim Krumrie (sp?). Who needs to see that?

  10. Hotto4Votto

    The Reds should trade Cueto, Leake, Chapman and whoever else they want to as soon as possible. This injury bug is spreading, can’t lose our best chips and get nothing back. Feel bad for Zach, he was on his way to having a really nice season.

  11. jessecuster44

    Feel for Zack. He’s been terrific this year, and deserves so much credit from bouncing back from last season.

    The Reds are truly snakebit with injuries. I’m not sure why they are so unlucky – it doesn’t make any mathematical sense at all.

    Fortunately the Reds seem to have a capable backup in Suarez – the Simon trade looks a little better right now. Maybe next year Cozart switches to 2B and Suarez takes over at SS.

    Four game win streak. Next man up.

    • IndyRedMan

      Suarez for Cozart and Meso for Boesch when he’s ready. I don’t know how good defensively DeJesus is at SS but I’m hoping he can have a half season run like Jerry Hairston Jr. had that one year. He needs to play somewhere to find out?

      • lwblogger2

        Suarez would probably start at SS with DeJesus staying on the bench or playing some while BP is out.

      • ohiojimw

        I was also thinking about where Meso’s roster spot would come from when he was ready to be activated. I think it is more likely to be the “extra” pitcher than a position player. Hamilton’s gimpy, BP could be next to the DL. So unless BP or Hamilton is DLed, I think it is the extra pitcher because they have walking wounded in addition to being 1 position player short because of the extra pitcher.

      • Morgan Mayham

        They can activate both mesoraco and bougeous ?DFA Bosch, send down villereal.

        Dl cozart for suarez, and if phillips needs dl. DFA dominguez , and call up falu.

      • ohiojimw

        I’d forgotten about Bourgeosis. That is an interesting choice between he and Boesch.

      • pinson343

        Jim, Don’t think you can call a guy with an injured wrist “gimpy”, because after all he’s not limping. In any case, Hamilton is going to continue to have wrist and hand injuries as long as he often slides head first.

  12. Steve

    Lucy taking the ball away again…we are all Charlie Brown

  13. whereruklu

    I’m just speechless……My dear ole mother use to always say, “When it hits the fan, it flies” Getting real tired of it hitting the fan…..

  14. doublenohitter

    Reds manager Bryan Price said after Wednesday’s game that he expects Zack Cozart (knee) to need a trip to the disabled list.
    It was pretty obvious if you saw Cozart being carried off the field after suffering a right knee injury. The shortstop underwent an MRI, but results aren’t available yet. Eugenio Suarez could be an option to come up to take his spot on the roster.

    • Keith

      He needs a trip to the DL. I guess the question with the Reds medical staff and mgmt is whether he ends up there today or in 3 weeks.

  15. sultanofswaff

    If we didn’t have bad luck, we’d have no luck. I was just starting to feel good about this team again and more confident the turnarounds of Cozart/Hoover/Phillips/Pena had staying power. Combined with the jettisoning of Marquis/Gregg/Diaz/Byrd while adding the improved performances of Barnhart/Stephenson/Winker and you could start to formulate an idea of what this team is capable of moving forward. Gheesh.

    Get well soon Zack!

  16. Jeremy Conley

    Suarez is doing a good job taking walks in AAA, I think you slot him in as the new leadoff hitter. Hopefully Phillips’ groin isn’t bad, and he’ll be back soon. Get Mesoraco back up and send out a Villareal, and we’ll finally have a full compliment of outfielders.

    Suarez
    Votto
    Frazier
    Bruce
    Phillips
    Mesoraco
    Pena
    Pitcher
    Hamilton

    With our rotation, I’ll watch that team.

    • lwblogger2

      I think you’ll see BP leading off… I could see Suarez as an option but I’d bat him further down in the order for now, just until he gets his feet wet at the MLB level again. If he continues to show the plate discipline he has in the past, maybe put him at leadoff.

    • Tom Reed

      What’s there to say except another tough break. But with time Zack will be back, and hopefully Suarez will be a capable fill-in. With the addition of DeJesus, Jr. and Mesoraco, soon to be in left field, plus the absence of Gregg/Marquis, I think the Reds are going to be a team which will surprise fans in a positive way with a good part of the season to go. Also, you have to be positive with the young pitchers that have been called up and those in waiting.

  17. Playtowin

    After Phils today, Reds have 4 with Cubs, 4 with Tigers, 3 Miami, 3 Pirates, 3 Mets, 3 Twins, 3 Brewers, 3 Nats, and 4 Miami, That’s 31 games. They need to go 18-13 against these teams to get to .500 by the ASG. 19 of the 31 games are on the road. Tough assignment for this group.

  18. Dr. K

    Beyond the obvious disappointment for Cozart, perhaps the next worst part of this injury is that it potentially emboldens the front office’s belief that all this team needs is good health. The list of injuries that have plagued the Reds the last two years is overwhelming and undeniably has impacted their success. That said, relying on good health over a six month season is not a viable foundation for any major league team.

    • Jeremy Conley

      Price says Cozart is going on the DL. He also said this: “He’s just a guy who has invested so much in being really good this year. You look back at last year with the slow start and struggles he had — to look at what he’s doing this year with the power and hitting the ball to all fields, while playing Gold Glove defense.”

      Cozart currently has 6 total hits to the right of second base (4 singles, 2 doubles, out of a total of 50 hits). His OPS on pulled balls is 1.150, his OPS on balls to center is .635 and on balls to the opposite field its .439.

      On balls he can pull he hits like Paul Goldschmidt, on everything else, he’s Omar Infante. What is the obsession with Cozart hitting the ball the other way? They tried to do that for years and it basically ruined him. Now he’s back to raking, and they’re saying it’s because he’s going hitting the ball all over the field, and it clearly isn’t.

      I think it’s just old tyme conventional wisdom that everyone is a better hitter if they hit to all fields.

    • Vanessa Galagnara

      Or trying to be positive maybe this injury to Cozart expedites the fire sale. As great as a win was today zero chance this team makes it to the play offs. less than zero chance of a world series trip. Maybe Jocketty realizes that he could actually get a very good left fielder and a shortstop for Cueto.

      • greenmtred

        Vanessa: It really isn’t a zero chance that the Reds make the playoffs, even if it isn’t a very good chance. And I question whether Cueto brings a very good leftfielder and a shortstop. He would probably bring a couple of prospects who might be major leaguers in a few years.

  19. old-school

    I was looking at stats today and if you had told me in March that BP and Cozart and Frazier and Votto would be doing what they are doing, I’d say we were in 1st place…..goes to show how much the Mesoraco injury, the bullpen, and the outfield have ruined this team.

    • Jeremy Conley

      I would say the bullpen, the bench, and Jason Marquis. I have no problem with what Hamilton or Bruce are doing.

      • old-school

        Hamilton has an .obp of .264.
        Byrd has a negative WAR
        Bruce ops is .745 with a WAR of 0.3.

      • Vicferrari

        I have argued that Marquis was a non factor. Name one game the Reds could have won had they had someone else start- maybe his last game and he gave up 2 ER’s in that one. It is possible that another 5th starter blows one of the 4 games he started that the Reds won. No one wins the other 4 games where the Reds put up 5 runs total. Marquis was terrible but not the reason the Reds have been for the most part of the season- in particular between his first and last start for the team.

      • pinson343

        The Reds have been losing because of their bullpen and bench, primarily.

      • pinson343

        I’m with you. At this point would just leave it at the bullpen and the bench. Hamilton’s defense is great and he’s been hitting since being moved down in the lineup. Bruce has also picked it up after a terrible start.

    • ohiojimw

      Seeing as how the Bats are in CBus again tonight, Suarez was probably in Cincy or at least en route by the end of the Reds game so he can catch the team charter to Shycago.

  20. Art Wayne Austin

    Jeremy, Hamilton has failed at lead-off and Bruce is Bruce, a major leaguer in the minors and a minor leaguer in the majors,
    On the injury to Cozart, the bases need to be buried. There are just too many injuries sliding into them or lunging into first to beat the throw. Also, Brandon doesn’t how to slide. I’m surprised he hasn’t broke an ankle or leg on his slides into third.

    • Jeremy Conley

      Hamilton’s defense and base running still make him valuable. Some people don’t think that those things count and only look at hitting. I think they are wrong.

      Bruce is league average hitter this year, so your statement doesn’t make any sense.

    • lwblogger2

      3 Silver Sluggers suggest that MLB coaches and managers strongly disagree with your “minor leaguer in the Majors” comment. Burying the bases isn’t a terrible idea as having them flush with the field may reduce injuries, at least somewhat. Brandon has made some horrible slides but I’m pretty sure the guy knows how to slide. It’s just that in the heat of the moment, sometimes we use our best judgement and we slide incorrectly.

  21. Jay King

    Cozart!!! your one of my favorite players on the Reds, even when you struggled at the plate over the past 2 seasons, I still loved how you could pick it like nobody else. Cincy is known for great defensive SS and your no exception to that. Hope he can recover sooner rather than later…. So sad with the season he has been having to lose him for who knows how long.

  22. Brett

    Nobody should have any delusions on how we are travelling this season but momentum seems to be a big thing for this club and apart from the growing DL list we are playing quite well of late. Can’t help but think that if we don’t split with the Cubbies & Detroit this week we might see some serious trade talks emerge. Pitching matchups with Cubbies looks positive but we have to get some bats firing to help Votto & Frazier (+ Pena) out. Don’t think the friendly confines is a time to have Meso start his 1st game as a LF but sure would be nice to have it in Detroit as a DH….

    • RedAlert

      Ain’t no need to wait – put him out there and let’s go – waiting not gonna accomplish anything at this point – get his bat in the lineup now !!!

      • Vicferrari

        How about he gets some practice since he never played the position before. This sounds like a really bad idea to me. Plus the guy is really struggling at hitting the vicious AAA studs and he was not exactly lighting it up when he was DHing

      • RedAlert

        What’s the other option – continue running the black hole (otherwise known as Brandon Boesch ) out there ? – no thanks , I’d rather have Mes’ bat in the lineup – and his defense may already be better than Boesch !

      • RedAlert

        Ok dude – sorry for the typo — BRENDON

      • Big56dog

        Why not Selsky until Mes has shown he can hit like last year and is comfortable in LF. I did not think Boesch was that bad of a fielder just not a CF. For all we known Mes is on par with Alonso in LF

  23. Cyrus

    Steve,
    Injuries are occurring at an alarming pace in MLB…unprecedented for that matter. I heard a recent report that 50% of pitchers last season in all of MLB had at least one DL stint. I know you’re not a doctor so I’m hoping you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night and get weigh in on what you think is the cause of all this happening across the board in MLB.

    • Dr. K

      Friend of mine and I were just talking about this. It’s not just in baseball, even though it is very true in baseball. Look at the NBA playoffs, up to and including the Finals, with the number of players that have gotten hurt. I don’t remember this being the case 20-25 years ago. I think part of it is that kids are playing more and more games in an individual sport and youth sports are becoming nearly year round. Thus when a player finally makes it to the Major Leagues (or other professional league) his body has gone through countless more games than a generation ago. That has to take a significant toll on a person’s body.

      • ohiojimw

        A corollary to your suggestion is that the athlete’s today are trained to an absolute razor’s edge, bigger, faster etc and generate forces that a body cannot withstand over a long haul, i.e. it is not merely the quantity of the reps but also physical nature of them in conjunction with the quantity.

      • pinson343

        Well put, Jim ! The injury epidemic ruined the NFL for me and now it’s ruining MLB.

      • lwblogger2

        Right… We are pushing the physical boundaries and walking a fine line. We’re getting every ounce out of a body that we are capable of getting. Sometimes. Just like a machine, when it is running full speed all the time, it is bound to break down more often and more critically when it does break down. That’s my theory anyway.

  24. vegastypo

    Just awful. As mentioned above, an old-timer like me went back to thoughts of Davey Concepcion. …

    So, Suarez at short, give DeJesuuuuuuuuuuuus (as in Bruuuuuuuuuce, get it?) a few weeks at second while Brandon goes on the DL to heal the groin and toe, and see where things stand after that.

    • pinson343

      Ugh, that awful memory of Concepcion’s injury. Led to losing to a mediocre Mets team in the playoffs.

      • JB WV

        That’s when the class acts at Shea threw batteries at Pete, if I remember correctly.

  25. Vicferrari

    Not much excitement on here for a rookie pitcher getting his 1st win with a solid start.
    I really find it easy to 2nd guess the manager when they lose but I feel Price’s BP mgmt was horrible but they won in spite of it. Thought Moscot for sure would come out to face Rupp, then counter with Cingrani when they predictably PH a lefty- with a SH and 2 lefties to follow although it almost worked I saw no reason why Cingrani was held out until Utley came up. I heard Badenhop was warming up, just wondering if his plan would have been brought in to face Red killer Franco has Chase reached (with Hoover in the pen). Furthermore why was Cingrani not allowed to pitch the 8th to at least face Howard? Thank goodness Utley bails out Tony after falling behind 2-0 and Howard smacked it right at Negron, that 8th inning was real close to being disastrous- but great positioning. Needless to say the Phillies prove to me they are an awful team that somehow had 2 amazing come back that really disrupted a potential great stretch

    • pinson343

      This seems like a good place to talk about the bullpen. It hasn’t been figured out yet by Price, and maybe it’s just too weak to be effective. I was happy to see Cingrani retire Utley but using him as a LOOGY makes no sense. For one thing, as Price himself has said, when defending his use of Cingrani after a game in Philly, he’s more effective against righties.

      I was an early and lonely supporter of moving beyond HOOVER SUCKS. He’s figured something out, is no longer giving up a HR every 5 innings and no longer pitching with a big lump in his throat. Others pushed back on me, pointing at his low K rate and high BB rate.

      Now that it’s recognized he’s better this year, I’ll clarify my position: he’s better but he’s not the 8th inning solution. His good luck, which will not last, was on bold display today. I saw the rocket he gave up to Howard, and that was sandwiched between a line drive hit and a double. Without that lucky double play (which included dumb base running by Franco, who forgot the shift was on), the Phillies have the tying run at 2nd with none out.

      • pinson343

        Price insists on having the one guy whose role is to pitch the 8th. Cingrani is the most qualified, but you also have to pitch him regularly, which Price didn’t when Cingrani was that guy. I don’t know if Cingrani gets another chance this year.
        My second choice would be Mattheus, who is the ground ball pitcher that Badenhop was supposed to be.

      • hof13

        The problem with Cingrani is walks and I think that problem stems from not having a reliable 2nd pitch. Good batters foul off his strikes on a fastball … partly because they know it’s coming. He tries to be more fine with his pitches, nibbling at the edges, which leads to the walks.

        Some would say a lot of the hits against him have been soft loopers. I again attribute that partly to the fact the hitter knows it`

      • Jeremy Conley

        Cingrani isn’t the answer to any inning until he learns to pitch in the big leagues, and that means being able to throw at least two pitches for strikes.

        The grand slam the other day was Cingrani in a nutshell. He threw the guy at least 8 fastballs in a row, getting foul after foul, and eventually the guy timed one. The count was full and the bases were loaded, and Cingrani just couldn’t count on being able to throw one slider or change up for a strike.

        The batter was swinging at everything. If he had thrown one off-speed pitch, he would have gotten the guy out. But he couldn’t, and one grand slam later the game was tied.

      • lwblogger2

        @Jeremy – Yep, one off-speed pitch and he would have had him. It didn’t even have to be in the zone, it just had to be close and he would have had him.

      • Big56dog

        How many chances did Jumbo get? Who exactly has had that role? I am not sure Price has had a chance to let someone have that as so many have been so bad at it.

      • Big56dog

        I am not sure if you are arguing that Cingrani is a poor choice as a LOOGY. When you say – “Price himself has said, when defending his use of Cingrani after a game in Philly, he’s more effective against righties.” I would assume he meant in comparison to what choices he had and not that Cingrani is less favorable to pitch against LHB. Although he has pitched poorly against lefties this year, overall Cingrani has been more effective against lefties over his MLB career.
        The point was Cingrani could have been used better in Wed’s game and Price seemed to luck out despite poor management…I seriously wonder what Price would have done had Utley got on in the 7th…

    • pinson343

      You’re right about Cozart in that he has not gotten a lot of love on this site and some of the editors were telling us earlier this season how he could not possibly sustain his improved hitting. But to be fair, recently there’s been a lot of talk, including by the editors, that Cozart deserves to be on the all star team.

      And we’ve consistently marveled at his defense and felt it’s underrated (the national talk is always about Simmons and maybe someone else but never Cozart).

      • Vicferrari

        I hope I did not sound like Cozart is no big deal, but wanted to point out that the positive in Moscot’s work and the fact this is what a lot of people wanted. Suarez, it is not like Votto or Frazier went out.

      • Hotto4Votto

        Cozart is having a good season. Hopefully he’ll get the chance to continue it (although my initial thoughts are doubtful). Part of unsustainable part of Cozart’s hot start was his batting average, being over .300 early on. Obviously that has come down, and was driven by a high BABiP if I remember correctly. On the flip side, the talk about Cozart continuing to hit for power is legit. He has the pop in his bat if he pulls the ball. And we’re seeing a return to that this year, as opposed to recent years when he attempted to use the field more. The power and defense combo is All-Star level as long as he hits 15-20 HRs and posts a .700+ OPS. Which he was on pace to easily surpass.

  26. GeauxReds

    Looks to me like cozart hyper extended his knee. I did the same thing in high school sliding into second base. Hurts.

    • pinson343

      He hyper extended add then rolled his ankle, it was hard to see what happened with the knee.

      • lwblogger2

        A hyper-extension isn’t the end of the world and would mean a return for him sooner rather than later (assuming the ankle isn’t shot). It is horribly painful and would have a player crumble to the ground like that and need to be helped off the field. An ACL or MCL tear on the other hand would look very similar but would end Cozart’s season. I’m hoping it’s not an ACL or MCL tear. Hoping and hoping and hoping.

      • rhayex

        I’ve hyperextended my knee two (three?) times. It’s never fun and can sap your speed and flexibility. I went from being able to juke the hell out of people in football to hardly being able to get any drive off of it. Hopefully that doesn’t happen to Cozart.

  27. pinson343

    Brett said: “Don’t think the friendly confines is a time to have Meso start his 1st game as a LFer …” A good time to recall that the “Alonso in LF” experiment ended with a disastrous weekend for him in Wrigley Field.

    People even suspected that Dusty started him in LF a couple of games in a row there to put an end to that experiment: he didn’t like in Alonso in LF (I agreed with him on that one, but thought it was worth a try).

  28. pinson343

    The Reds pitchers must be leading the major leagues in ABs by pitchers. Probably also in hits by pichers.

    • renbutler

      Most hits by pitchers:

      NYM (20)
      CIN (19)
      SF (19)
      WSH (19)
      AZ (15)
      PIT (15)
      MIA (14) — by 8 different pitchers! (four by Latos)
      SD (14)
      ATL (13) — by 7 different pitchers
      LAD (13)
      PHI (13)
      CHC (12)
      STL (12)
      COL (10)
      MIL (8)

      AL teams with 2: BOS/MIN/TOR
      AL teams with 1: BAL/CWS/HOU/LAA/TEX
      AL teams with 0: NYY/TB/KC/DET/SEA/CLE*/OAK*

      *CLE and OAK haven’t played at an NL park yet.

      • Big56dog

        But what about the AB’s???? and while you are sitting their slacking off with incomplete info who has the best OPS+

      • renbutler

        🙂

        ABs was going to take more busy work. The list of pitchers with hits was a lot shorter than pitchers with ABs. I also find the former less interesting.