Final – Game 1 R H E
Cincinnati Reds (15-14) 10 13 0
Chicago White Sox (10-16) 4 6 2
W: Cueto (3-3) L: Carroll (0-1)
FanGraphs Win Probability | Box Score
Cincinnati Reds (15-15) 2 6 0
Chicago White Sox (11-16) 8 14 0
W: Rodon (1-0) L: Marquis (3-2)
FanGraphs Win Probability | Box Score

The Good
–I don’t care if he did technically give up four runs. Johnny Cueto was excellent again. That’s just sort of what he does. He’s good at the whole baseball thing.

–Marlon Byrd continues to be on fire like the sun. He hit another homer in the first game, walked three times in the second game, and his OPS currently sits at .743 which is above league average and a whole lot better than it was a few weeks ago. Keep it coming, Marlon.

–Skip Schumaker started at DH in the first game – a move which makes no justifiable sense since he is a terrible hitter. So, of course, he went 3 for 5 with a double and 2 gritty ribeye steaks.

–Joey Votto had a very nice second game of the double header after serving his suspension during the first game. he went 3 for 4 with the only 2 RBIs the Reds had in the second game. He did have a pretty dunderheaded play trying to stretch a single into a double. Base running is the one area where Votto has always been kind of bad.

–Zack Cozart played all of both games and had a hit in each, so he’s seemingly back now. That’s nice.

–Billy Hamilton walked once and had a hit in each game of the double header. Getting on base is good. he also stole two bases.

The Bad
–Jason Marquis, aka: Jason Maquis Should not be in the Rotation, was bad again. He gave up 5 runs in 5.2 innings. He continues to be unconvincing as a major league baseball player.

–Pedro Villareal was positively wretched.

Not-So-Random Thoughts
–I was so excited to see Bryan Price take over as manager, but I honestly do not understand anything he does. His decisions regarding relief pitching are indefensible. A monkey throwing darts would do as well. His continued reliance on Skip Schumaker also makes no sense whatsoever (even if it worked). I know the Reds aren’t deep, but the way he uses the roster, it boggles the mind.

–Even though the Reds scored 10 in the first game, it felt like they should have scored 20. They left a man on third in 12 out of 9 innings. It was almost enough to make me agree with Marty about RISP. Almost.

–Speaking of Marty, my wife was listening to the Radio with me some tonight while Marty and Kelch were talking about Mott the Hoople for all the minutes you have left alive in the world and she asked me when they were going to start talking about baseball again.

–This team continues to be very efficient at base stealing. It’s pretty amazing. They stole 4 bases without being caught today. That’s just kind of what they do, even if the rest of them are nowhere close to runners. It’s fun to see.

–After a very exciting start to the season, this Reds team just feels like a .500 team. Maybe something will turn at some point, but it doesn’t feel like it. 7 or 8 years ago, .500 would have been great. Now? I want more. The part that bothers me the most is that the Reds never try anything. They’ve still got Marquis and Gregg on the roster. Mesoraco is neither on the DL nor is he learning how to be a 4th OF. If you’re a team that seems destined for mediocrity, why not take a flyer? What can it hurt?  I’d just like to see them try.

70 Responses

  1. RedAlert

    Villareal needs to be on the first bus back to Louisville – and while you’re at it , let Price drive him there – anybody on this blog could make better managerial decisions than this guy -utterly amazing the ineptitude he continues to display –

  2. RedAlert

    MEDIOCRITY has now become the calling card of this organization

    • Vicferrari

      Mediocre Aprils and Mays can turn into late summer WC chases, with a few 4-10 game win streaks, I will condemn Price when he gets a roster full of MLB players. Constatntly playing with maybe 20 while other managers get 25 healthy players. Sunday better justify keeping Mes on the roster because this is just ugly throwing a talented player out there who cannot do anything else but bea decoy and draw walks occasionally and be a scapegoat when the media calls their figurehead manager out on it

  3. Vicferrari

    I like the pitching match-up tomorrow, but who is the DH? Mes has to go against a weak LH pitcher…right?

    • pinson343

      I would think so. He’s got to be on the roster for some reason.

      • jeffversion1

        That’s just what they *want* you to think.


  4. Vicferrari

    I do not get all the negativity toward Marquis..”Jason Maquis Should not be in the Rotation” …..who should be? He has been adequate, there are plenty of players who have not

    • Vanessa Galagnara

      I agree here. He is not the problem. The two big glaring holes are 1) unable to have big innings because we cannot drive in runners that are on base. 2) Cingrani and Chapman look like major league relief pitchers. The rest look like the wouldn’t make the grade for any other professional baseball team. Also I will add that our bench stinks too.

    • CTRedsFan

      I agree other players have been worse, but a 5.66 ERA is not adequate, even for a 5th starter.

      • Vicferrari

        I look at it as who cares what they do in games they is virtually no chance of winning, is the guy going to keep you in games you have a chance?, in the 4 games they have had a chance they won…I call that adequate

    • D Ray White

      Marquis has been below average, but has been the beneficiary of a few good offensive outbursts. Other than that, he gives up at least 4-5 runs each start. That’s a recipe for a 6-15 season. Marquis is easily replaceable, as is Gregg.

      • Vicferrari

        That is simply not true, only 1 time over 4 runs before tonight and that was a win.

    • Nick Carrington

      What do you mean by adequate? He has an ERA of 5.66 and is probably lucky to have that. He had a lot of strikeouts early but that has predictably stopped. The Reds have won three of his starts because they were averaging 9 runs a game in his starts coming into tonight’s game. Frankly, he has pitched really poorly.

      I would take Moscot, Iglesias, or Axelrod over Marquis. The can’t pitch worse, and they have a lot more upside than Marquis. Three better options.

      • Vicferrari

        3 of his starts have been decent, another one he gave up one big inning in a game they scored 16 runs, his 2 losses the Reds basically had no chance of winning…tonights game was offense ineptitude from Votto missing out on a golden opportunity to work a pitch count of a starter who was shaky in the first (and his inexcusable base-running) to get to a vulnerable bullpen to Frazier’s DP’s and K’s to the organization having no foresight to DL a catcher who cannot squat or hit.
        Marquis in comparison is adequate… I will agree I feel the 3 you named are better…but they need to replace the gas cans in the bullpen first, get that straightened out, then focus on the ineffective pitchers who are winning 2/3 of their starts

      • jdx19

        I hear pitcher wins are the new hotness for evaluating pitcher talent!

      • Vicferrari

        Last time I checked wins matter as a team above all other individual FIP, WHIP, BABIP, who cares if you look effective while you are losing…I am not advocating signing Marquis long term and can anyone deny that he had back to back solid starts before this one to go along with a solid 1st start? He has been better than expected in my eyes, the Reds need a starter for Wed and righties in the bullpen; Lorenzen and iglesias are not going to be able to pitch a full season- there are some issues to address before Saturday’s game 2 starter

      • jdx19

        Yes, wins matter as a team. Not for the pitcher. Marquis did not win the games he was given credit for winning. It’s useless to argue that he did.

        He’s been a poor starting pitcher. Not sure why you guys can’t see that.

      • Vicferrari

        Your points are valid, but I think it is fair to say the 4/10, 4/27 (in particular), and 5/3 were effective starts- not what a “poor starting pitcher” gives you- I do not understand why you cannot see that.
        Most teams win those games and Marquis put them in that position. He had one bad inning in the 4/21 start-looked outright dominant in the first 2 innings, never trailed and the Reds happened to have their most productive day-lucky Jason picked a good day to be so-so. The 2 bad starts Reds were shutout in one, scored 2 in another- it is lot to expect from your 5th starter (or whatever you want to call him at this point) to keep them in that game, which he did until the 2 HR’s in the 6th.
        My whole point is that Marquis is adequate when so many others are not- to suggest an Axelrod with his 5.16 career ERA is a better alternative is a crap shoot. Lorenzen, Igelesias, and Moscot all might be better choices; one of them is already a starter that is needed to go all season- which will not happen, another will need to start Wed, another probably is not ready- with a huge need for RH bullpen help I see them filling a void that is much worse off than how they might be able to outperform the occasional poor Marquis start.
        I have seen a lot of bad starters as a Reds fan over the year, just not too many in the past 3 or 4 seasons. We have gotten spolied

      • Vanessa Galagnara

        I do agree that Moscot, Iglesias or Axelrod should be given the chance. But until the Reds are ready to start their service clocks we will have to learn to cheer for Marquis.

      • jessecuster44

        tick tock. Iglesias’ clock started in the first week of the season, correct?

      • Redsfan48

        Iglesias will pitch Wednesday in Cincinnati because of the opening made by the doubleheader. This is the Reds’ best chance to either get rid of Marquis and keep Iglesias in the rotation, or banish Gregg like they should have done weeks ago, and put Iglesias in the bullpen. Hopefully the headlines on Wednesday will read “Reds designate Marquis (or Gregg) for assignment”

      • Vicferrari

        As far as service clocks, Moscot is the only issue but they may have to give him a serious look since Lorezen and Iglesias may have split time as the fifth starter even if they are effective as they will be on an innings limit. Like Vanesa said Iglesias clock has already started, Axelrod’s started in 2011 he has got over 200 Jason Marquis innings (ERA wise anyway) under his belt

      • Steve Mancuso

        Service time clocks stop running when players go back to the minor leagues.

    • CTRedsFan

      When we start debating the virtues of having Marquis in the rotation it shows what little chance this team has to compete.

      Sadly, I suspect Marquis will be in the rotation again in 2016, if Walt is still around.

      • Redsfan48

        Doubt it. I see Lorenzen, Iglesias, Moscot, Travieso, and then either Stephenson or Leake depending on if they re sign him (or even Cueto but not likely) in the opening day rotation next year, with Bailey likely rejoining the team in mid- to late June or early July.

      • DHud

        Stephenson has been bad so far this season. Stephenson is 0-4 with a 6.85 ERA through 5 starts, including a masterful 0.2 IP, 6 ER performance two outings ago. Travieso has done better, 2.94 ERA through 6 starts, but he’s still young (he’s only at Advanced A this season) and I doubt the Reds see him as ready next season. The first three you mention, however, should be training-wheels-off going into 2016

      • Vicferrari

        Reds fans need to get off this Stephenson is going to be an ace or even a prime candidate, he will be a AA bust at this point. Some one give me some case studies of pitchers with good stuff who struggled back to back years at AA and made an impact, I am losing hope in him

      • Redsfan48

        Losing faith in a 22 year old? Way too early to give up on someone that young. Even Cueto was a late bloomer.

  5. redsfan06

    Have to agree the Reds just don’t seem to want to make the moves needed to fix their problems. Neither Gregg nor Marquis were really good pitchers even when they were in their prime. Now there are two washed up, formerly mediocre pitchers getting plenty of opportunities to lose games for the team. Neither of whom has a future with the team.

    Sadly, I also have to agree with you about Price. After all the years of watching Dusty making inexplicable decisions and then hurting my ears with his explanations for doing so, I was really high on Price. Unfortunately, Price is starting to look like Dusty 2.0.

    • Redsfan48

      I believe I saw that Marquis had 2 seasons in his career with an ERA under 4.00 (the last being in I think 2006) so you’re right, he wasn’t even good in his prime

  6. Derriz

    Why are all the guys hitting .300 hitting at the bottom of the order and all the sub .200 at the top?

    • Redsfan48

      Cozart belongs in the bottom of the order. He will eventually come crashing back to earth, he’s not really a .300 hitter. I see him hitting .260-.270 at the very best this year. As for Peña, he’s a liability on the basepaths and has no measurable power. This team really does need a true leadoff hitter (like Choo when he was with the Reds), so they can hit Hamilton 9th though.

    • jdx19

      Byrd at 2, though, is pure lunacy. Price is “trying to get him going” and unfortunately Byrd start hitting right at the time Price moved him up, further perpetuating this myth that old school managers hold to.

      • Redsfan48

        I can almost guarantee you batting with Billy on base, and Votto on deck, will get him more fastballs. Marlon Byrd is a very good fastball hitter. So it might actually have helped him.

      • jdx19

        You shouldn’t give the 2nd most at-bats to a guy who is not at least the 2nd best hitter on the team.

      • HerpyDerp

        So is Joey Votto. He even admitted he had never seen so many fastballs in his life while BH was on base. I’d just flip Votto and Byrd for the time being while Byrd is still hot.

  7. Vanessa Galagnara

    Winning is winning I suppose. hard to get excited about a team that plays consistently as a .500 team. They can play just good enough to make people think that they have potential.

  8. pinson343

    Game 1 was the one of the most frustrating routs I’ve ever witnessed. I’m referring to routs won by the Reds. The recap mentions their futility – until the breakout 9th inning – with runners in scoring position. For me their base running in those situations was more frustrating than their battiing. Three base runners thrown out at the plate.

    The TOOTLBAN is back. This took away from the positive of the stolen bases and added to the negative of the missed scoring opportunities.

    • VaRedsFan

      All 3 outs at the plate were justifiable chances that were worth taking.
      1. Todd was running on the play and tried to score from 2nd on a slow roller to the catcher.

      2. Cozart tried to score on a medium depth fly ball, that everybody would have tried.

      3. Schumaker tried to score on a wild pitch to the backstop, which ricocheted right back to the catcher.

      Lets not invent mistakes. They make enough of them on their own merit.


    Enough — let Marquis and Gregg go now! The Cards are great and will win the division. We’ll deal with them in the playoffs. We are a Wild Card team now due to all the mediocrity in the NL. We can stay there if we dump those two, use a four man rotation whenever the schedule allows, and try Cingrani or bring up Stephenson. Heck, how about no more players over 34. We can get in the playoffs and then anything is possible in a best of 7 series. You can’t stop, boom, boom, the new Red Machine!

    • Vicferrari

      Stephenson is a apparition of a prospect at this point, he is a legend of single A ball, buy cannot find the strike zone at AA, Reds need consistent relievers and Hoover and Diaz should be last resort, they need a starter for Wed..Iglesias is the real hope for both these roles, hope Marquis can give you innings like the last 2 starts before tonight

      • Vanessa Galagnara

        Stephenson is a dominant first time through the lineup kind of a guy. The very type of prospect that we need to convert over to the bullpen. We don’t need him as a starter…. we have plenty of guys with the “potential” to be a starter slot. Is there anyone with Johnny’s ability? Of course not! Then again when Johnny was a prospect was he ever considered to be the potential ace of a rotation?

      • DHud

        Two outings ago Stephenson walked 4, gave up 3 hits, and allowed 6 ER in 0.2 IP. Not exactly what I’d call dominating first time through the lineup

  10. ohiojimw

    Another game virtually conceded early by the bullpen choice. I guess they wanted to get their ~$3350 worth for having Villareal on hand (3350=1/162 of the minimum salary+ the per diem)

    • Vicferrari

      Amazing that they have let this guy see ML action for 4 consecutive seasons, hopefully he gets some deep dish and some Chicago night life with his per diem

  11. pinson343

    “I was so excited to see Bryan Price take over as manager, but I honestly do not understand anything he does.”

    Amen. In the first game today he just stunned me, he sounds smart but really doesn’t seem to make decisions based on any sense, common or otherwise. Cueto was absolutely brilliant in the first 8 innings, allowing only 1 run on a solo HR. After throwing a lot of pitches in the first inning, he was retiring the White Sox so quickly that the Sox were spending all their time on the field.

    After 8 innings the Reds have a 3-1 lead, Chapman is warming in the bullpen, and I’m basking in the glow of another Cueto masterpiece. The Reds make it 10-1, so Chapman sits down and I’m looking to Hoover (or whoever) to get that final 3 outs.

    So, AFTER 107 PITCHES, SITTING FOR 30 MINUTES, and WITH A 9 RUN LEAD, Cueto is coming out to pitch the 9th ???!!! His arm has gone cold, he thought he was done, the game is over, etc. After a HR, walk, line drive double and sac fly, finally Hoover comes in.

    One could say: it “only” ruined Cueto’s pitching line, no real harm done. Well, by the time Cueto had left, he’d thrown 123 pitches. After recently throwing 125 pitches to win a game against the Brewers, Price decided to give Cueto an extra day rest after an off day because he’d “thrown 125 pitches the last time out and his arm could use the extra day of rest.” And this time 16 of those pitches were thrown after his arm and body had cooled off.

    If I had the chance, I’d yell something at Price 77 times.

    • Vicferrari

      Totally thought the same thing, I was out earlier when all that was going on, but saw the 7 run 9th and thought it was a no-brainier to bring on bullpen train wreck considering the score, pitch count, and duration… no reason to let Cueto pitch…would have made more sense to have Chapman work since he was warming up or at least Villareal if you did not want to burn any regulars.
      If you want to get Cueto CG, let him go out in the 9th with 85 pitches

    • jeffversion1

      It seems to me a 10-1 lead in the ninth with Chapman warmed up and ready to come in is the perfect spot for Kevin Gregg.

      Anyway.. A list of thing that are hard from most difficult to least difficult…

      1. Managing a baseball team
      2. Rocket science
      3. Brain surgery

    • ohiojimw

      9th inning, 9 run lead. That seems like a no brainer time to use the temporary call up guy. Somebody please tell me that by rule, Villareal wasn’t available till the 2nd game. That is the only real reason not to use him to start the 9th of the first game,

    • redmountain

      Cueto said after the game that he told Price he wanted to go out for the nine. He wanted the complete game. Notice that the bullpen got busy as soon as the HR was launched. He argued with Price about coming out. Aces get such leeway. Although I think it is time to give up on Gregg and perhaps Marquis,relievers who come in for an inning 3 or 4 times a week do not have a lot of time to correct their problems, they must pitch their way through it. It is difficult to watch, but you cannot send everyone to the minors to fix that. As was accurately stated on the broadcast, all most all the teams are looking for another starter and more relievers so trading for them is not really that easy. The kids in the minors (Iglesias in particular) are not ready for the show yet.

      • Indy Red Man

        Marquis is allowing a .312 batting average….he’s the one not ready for the show. I would go w/Cingrani over Inglesias but you go with your 5 best arms that can give you atleast 5-6 innings and Marquis has never been one of those from day 1

      • jdx19

        Pitching well against Milwaukee is not much of a ringing endorsement, Vic.

      • Vicferrari

        Not a very good argument (though your previous points were)..Brewers are a major league team…ask Jake Arietta, Travis Wood, Jason Hammels, Clayton Kershaw or Joe Wieland why they could not Pitch well against Milwaukee while Marquis could as the Brewers win 6 of their last 10.
        The whole basis of get rid of Marquis argument is the Reds have got some magic alternative and the number one replacement Lorenzen had a worst start against the Brewers. He is not even an option to replace Marquis since he is the 5th and Marquis is now the 4th starter.Lorenzen will need to replaced if he can make it 150 effective innnings

      • Vicferrari

        And another thing one of the starts was against the Cards and another against the Braves

      • Matt

        Especially not Milwaukee without Gomez and Lucroy

      • Matt

        And the Braves don’t exactly have an awe-inspiring line-up either.

      • Vicferrari

        Braves line-up looked pretty awe-inspiring all day against Cueto last Sunday; if you want to make a valid point./suggest a realistic replacement for Marquis (I will take Cole Hammels) …point is Lorenzen was not more effective against the Brewers, Disco was not more effective against the Braves and you have to go deeper for a replacement than these 2. Disco gives some reason to worry with 3 straight ineffective starts, is Iglesias a better choice than Marquis at this point as his start was less effective than Marquis 2 days later the first week of the season?

  12. why oh why

    Walt will not own up to his mistakes signing Marquis and Gregg, and Schumaker. It almost painbs me to see one of them actually have a good game, because I know that will earn them another 10 appearances.

  13. Bob Purkey

    In the words of John Blutarsky – “Neidermyer. . . dead, Marmalard. . .dead” – OOPS, that should be “Marquis. . .dead, Gregg. . .dead, Hoover. . .dead, Marshall. . .dead, Villareal. . .dead, Parra. . .dead, Diaz. . .dead, etc. etc.” If only Walt could join them. . .

  14. sezwhom

    If Jason Marquis pitched for St. Louis now, he’d probably throw a shutout against the Reds. You know it’s true.

  15. John Pence

    For SEZWHOM…..If Frank Robinson were a pitcher, he probably would have thrown a Series shutout against us, lol. It just seems to work that way. Paul O’Neill was a mediocre hitter with us, but went to the Yanks and became a star. Go figure.

  16. Indy Red Man

    Marquis batting avg. against is .312
    Cingrani’s ba allowed is .129

    Who should be throwing more innings? Case closed. If not Tony then Inglesias or one of the other guys pitching decently at AAA. He puts Gregg into a 3-2 deficit the other night and its quickly 6-2. Mesoraco? If he would’ve had the surgery in April then maybe he’d be back in September? Cueto in the 9th yesterday? Its not like Johnny hasn’t missed alot of time in the last 3-4 years. If they ride him to the DL then how will they trade him? Schumaker gets 3 hits so he’ll prob be the top weapon off the bench all year now despite Boesch or Falu (400 obp at Lville).
    I will give Price credit for the running game although it doesn’t make up for all the crazy and erratic decisions elsewhere? I’ve followed baseball for 40+ years and I’ve never seen a team neglect a guy like Cingrani because he’s the long man while watching Gregg and Badenhop give away 3-4 close games….then literally 3 days later Cingrani is the sole setup in the 8th? Crazy?

  17. Indy Red Man

    They cut Paul Maholm who had a 4.14 era from 2012-14. If they put him between Lorenzen and Cueto in the rotation then a soft tossing lefty might even be more effective. There are other options than Marquis and Gregg

  18. RedInInd

    Off topic . . . Bucs get a triple play against St. Louis yesterday. Sweet. Even sweeter is that Molina’s bat started it.

    • vegastypo

      It somehow figures that it started with a rocket line drive, and the pirates third baseman started to leave the field after the first two outs.

  19. Tom Reed

    A good day to take the series at New Comiskey even with Gregg and Marquis still on the roster.

  20. chrislosolivos

    Hostility toward Marquis is overblown. He’s 3-2 and the last time I checked W-L determines a team’s success, not ERA or any other stat. Besides, he’s a better hitter than some regulars and all the marginal guys on the bench. Last year Cozart got all the hostility and right now he has the #12 WAR in the National League. Lighten up.

  21. Jesse. Forry

    The Reds are a very bad team.
    The manager & general manager need to be history. Too many bad decisions by the manager during every game.