A minute ago, Jon Morosi says the Reds are working on a trade with the Marlins for Mat Latos.

Joe Frisaro, Marlins MLB writer tweets the Marlins are trading for a right-handed pitcher with one year of team control. No direct connection to the Reds, but Cincinnati has three of those pitchers.

About 30 minutes ago, Jon Morosi of Fox Sports tweeted that the Reds may be trading a starting pitcher to the Detroit Tigers.

Shortly after that, Reds beat writer C. Trent Rosecrans confirmed the rumor and added that it is unrelated to the Tigers’ recent trade with the Red Sox for Yeonis Cspedes.

Tigers beat writer for MLB confirms non-Latos rumor with Detroit.


Talk about these rumors here.



266 Responses

  1. Steve Mancuso

    Are we looking at two trades? One with the primary purpose of unloading salary, maybe to the Tigers, who have money but few prospects. A second with the Marlins for the new left fielder. Possibly.

    • ToddAlmighty

      I think if you’ve gotten to the point where you need to trade a starting pitcher primarily for salary relief, it’s time to admit the window is closed/barely open and it’s rebuilding time.

      Sure would like to see Yelich wearing a Reds uniform though.

      • Kyle Farmer

        If it’s Latos, I sure hope the get at least Yelich. It’s hard to get rid of all those years of “knowing” that a team can never have too much starting pitching!

      • Kyle Farmer

        Oops. Forgot to type the “or Cueto” in there.

  2. Michael Smith

    This could get interesting. If Walt does pull off a double today does everyone still say he is in a coma?

    • Steve Mancuso

      Fairly low bar. Walt isn’t in a coma.

    • Steve Mancuso

      As much as I’d love that, one year of Cueto isn’t anywhere near worth Christian Yelich.

  3. OhioStateRedsFan

    Hopefully Cueto or Latos for Yelich. Then Winker replaces Bruce next year. Two good, young and cheap corner outfielders. That’s my dream scenario

  4. JoshG

    I am really curious now, if it’s 2 deals will there be more then, more of a true firesale

  5. Steve Mancuso

    Two trades makes sense from the standpoint of the “payroll trim” reports the past 48 hours.

  6. ProspectCincy

    Christian Yelich is off the table … Marlins have their line-up set after the Gordon trade, so I would expect the Reds to get back prospects from Miami, and the LF from Detroit if they were pulling off two trades (with Leake and Latos out the door).

    • ToddAlmighty

      Still wish the Reds got on that if they knew Gordon was available. Plug Gordon in at 2nd, trade BP for a ham sandwich, have two guys in your lineup who can get you 60 steals, and save money while doing so.

      • charlottencredsfan

        I like Gordan a lot. Really came on last year. If he wouldn’t replace BP than Cozart, either way the Reds win.

      • charlottencredsfan

        You don’t get Cueto unless you take BP. LOL

      • ProspectCincy

        Fact. Loria just said this morning he loves the line-up, envisions Gordon / Yelich like Pierre / Castillo back in the WS days …

        Yelich is too great a piece to give up for Latos rental (or purchase).

      • charlottencredsfan

        Tuesday the Dodgers said noway they are moving Gordon. Evey team love who they have until they get a better offer.

      • jessecuster44

        Fact: Loria is an incredibly dishonest owner. He lies and lies and lies…

  7. OhioStateRedsFan

    Gonna be an unproductive day at the office lol

  8. Steve Schoenbaechler

    Boy, if we can get any sort of quality player for Latos, I think you have to jump at that.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      I mean, shoot, a starting pitcher who’s been shut down early each of the last two seasons due to injury, and we can get a quality piece back for him? You have to jump at that.

    • Kyle Farmer

      Latos is one year away from being the ace of the team.

      • charlottencredsfan

        You have to admit, the difference in Cueto’s and Lato’s value is vast. If Walt can get Cueto in a bidding war, the Reds should be in great shape.

  9. Brian

    Any chance they will try and throw in a contract with a starter (e.g. skip, phillips i know 10/5) like braves are trying to do with their outfield?

  10. Steve Mancuso

    At this point, I’m OK with the Reds getting back prospects, as long as they are good, impact players and not just fig leaves for shotgun salary dumps. .

  11. cslezak221

    Do we think this could possibly be two payroll trims to set up possibly something bigger to bring on higher paid player? i was thinking upton but not sure what they would have left to pull something like that off

  12. Drew

    I am willing to bet that “IF” a trade comes down there will be a HUGE WTH come from a number of people…especially Joe Fans…

    • charlottencredsfan

      I’m almost at the point I want to see JC traded just to see a lot of folks shock & dismay at the huge return the Reds receive. Lester and Samardzija are very high quality starting pitchers, Johnny Cueto is lights out. Outside of MadBum and that guy in LA, there is none comparable to him. If one of the Bg Boys get Cueto they will sign him to a new contract

      • pinson343

        Cueto is light years better than Latos. I’m surprised than he’s even underrated by Reds fans.

  13. rfay00

    The fact that we may be dealing Latos and then one of Leake, Simon, or Cueto…doesn’t make me think we are in it to win it this year.

    Let’s see the return first.

    • Steve Mancuso

      Huge difference whether the second player is Simon or Cueto regarding 2015.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      The thing is, Latos didn’t figure that much into last season. I believe he definitely has #1 potential. However, he seems to get injured on the slightest of motions. Do we have someone who can replace his 14 wins from 2012 and 2013 each? Probably not. However, I wouldn’t put it past Cingrani to come close to it. Again, just like Latos, provided he stays healthy.

      • Kyle Farmer

        I consider Cueto to be a much bigger injury risk that Latos. Latos had a couple of freak things last year.

      • charlottencredsfan

        Think upside. If you’re the Yanks or the Sox, who do you really want? Mat pitching in the Big City would scare me – not in a good way either.

  14. Steve Mancuso

    If these reports end up being Latos to Miami and Simon to Detroit, the Reds could still be competitive in 2015.

    • Dale Pearl

      If say we get prospects back in return who do you see taking their spots in the rotation Steve? I’m with you though that if we can trim some payroll with those 2 leaving and can still manage to pick up 1.5 bats we could be at least competitive in our division

      • SabrChris

        Wouldn’t be surprised if Haren would be part of the Miami deal

  15. Drew

    given Detroit’s closer/bullpen woes…what about it being Chapman?

  16. Brian

    cueto + latos = fire sale and bye 2015

  17. charlottencredsfan

    Is it already Christmas. Reds appear to be in if not all the way in. Fun stuff, to see who is left under the tree for us.

  18. OhioStateRedsFan

    I hope we trade Latos to Miami and Simon to Detroit. Gives us a chance to see how competitive we can be early in the season. And if things go south early, trade Cueto & BP at the deadline

    • Brady

      Yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking.

  19. Steve Schoenbaechler

    He would replace Scherzer for them. But, who would we get back? I mean, beyond Cabrera, they have no real offensive threat. And, I don’t see any of their pitchers worthy of a Cueto trade, unless we were to get Verlander. Where then, I would rather keep Cueto. Checking their minors, I don’t see much there, either.

    • JoshG

      Jd Martinez had a nice year, and they just got Cespedes from Boston, so one of them and GOOD prospects could be a possibility

      • pinson343

        I would love it if the Reds got JD Martinez. But the word is the Tigers are getting Simon, don’t see how the Reds could get Martinez for him, unless they add a prospect.

  20. Dale Pearl

    Jocketty must have received a good report on the health of Bailey and Cingrani today.

  21. Dale Pearl

    Marlins have a very nice 2b prospect that would probably be major league ready right about the time Brandon is ready to be sent out to the pasture. Hopefully we can snag Romero and Realmuto but that is asking a lot. I suppose if the Marlins want proven starting pitching and to compete next year they will pull the trigger.

  22. rfay00

    How many people aren’t getting work done at this moment?

  23. charlottencredsfan

    Is Mark Shelton out of bed yet???

    • Dale Pearl

      I gave up on him 2 years ago. I can’t believe we are stuck with him as our “beat reporter”

  24. rfay00

    Any chance Homer Bailey is being traded to the Tigers?

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      That’s who I would have rather been traded.

    • rfay00

      Just delete this comment…literally a minute after I post it, Simon gets announced.

  25. Steve Mancuso

    Early reaction: Moving Simon to Tigers is strictly a salary dump of $5 million with the assumption that Tony Cingrani fully replaces him in the 2015 rotation.

    • SabrChris

      Being in the camp that Simon was product of Luck and and the defense, cashing him in for a decent prospect, come on power bullpen arm, is a good move. Of course replacing him in the rotation with one pitch should be in the pen Cingrani while Cappy continues to be wasted tempers my “excitement” at the move.

    • Steve Mancuso

      Dream on. Simon gets one of JD Martinez’s used batting gloves.

      • OhioStateRedsFan

        Thanks for the chuckle at work Steve lol

      • Jay

        I compare the two favorably since both and career years this past year

      • pinson343

        No. Martinez is young and very talented. He had a breakout year. Simon old and not near the potential.

      • charlottencredsfan

        Disagree, I think we get a set.

  26. JoshG

    yeah, I’m fine .. even if the return isn’t anything special

  27. SabrChris

    We all assume we’d get an outfielder back, but if we are truly looking to drop salary:
    Latos ~8.4 and Cozart ~2.3 for Haren still paid by LAD and Hechavaira no arb rights for 2015.

  28. Dale Pearl

    1.5 million off the books. 15.5 to go. Doing the math for Walt since this appears to be a weakness with him.

    • Swayne1

      Simon projected to make $5.1 million through Arbitration this year.

      • Dale Pearl

        yes but do we know if Walt is crying pre or post arbitration since that number could be higher or lower?

  29. Hotto4votto

    Huh. I like it better than Leake. Leake is the one I’d most like to extend. Simon is the most expendable but won’t bring back much. For the life of me I can’t figure out who the Reds would target on the Marlins in a Latos deal.

    • Dale Pearl

      I’m with you on that. Young and durable and will be the cheapest of all of them.

      • SabrChris

        Mark my words, Leake won’t be cheap. His agent will say: 891 ip 53 wins ERA 3.92 for my boy, Homer 998 ip 50 wins era 4.17 and you gave him a 100 million dollar contact…Mike needs to get paid!

  30. Steve Mancuso

    Simon was projected to make $5.1 million in arbitration this year. At this point, would be replaced by league minimum Tony Cingrani. Saves $4.5 million.

    • Brady

      Good move, plus it signifies that they’ll try to bring back Leake long-term, which I’m a fan of.

    • Grand Salami

      Can we assume Cingrani has a clean bill of health or this move wouldn’t be made?

  31. jessecuster44

    Please be a bat, and not a pitcher….

  32. David

    Eugenio Suarez for Simon – thumbs up!

      • earmbrister

        I agree. And we got a nice return on a guy that was picked off the scrap heap.

  33. charlottencredsfan

    Crawford looks interesting. #2 Tiger prospect per MLB.com. Big arm ETA of 2016.

    • pinson343

      +1 (that’s pretty much all I’ve had to say today)

  34. Kyle Farmer

    Jon Heyman just tweeted that Latos is indeed heading to the Marlins. I can’t help thinking that we traded the wrong guy and I’m not talking about Leake. Not sold at all on Cueto’s durability.

    • Brady

      Latos has some durability concerns as well. Assuming they’ll expect somewhat (emphasis on somewhat) similar money, I think I’d rather gamble on Cueto. Plus, if by the trade deadline we’re out of the running, Cueto is bringing you back a huge return.

      • pinson343

        Agreed. Cueto has much more value than Latos.

    • pinson343

      But at this point I’m not sold on Latos’ durability either.

    • SabrChris

      Over the last three years, even with injury last season, Cueto has performed at truly elite levels. Latos hasn’t got there and I don’t believe he has the maturity/psychology to get there. Even in this pitchers era, you still have to hoard elite pitching.

  35. Dale Pearl

    Suarez means we can say goodbye to Cozart. Crawford looks like a finesse pitcher doesn’t strike out many batters, maybe Tom Browning can square him away. Overall a decent trade I think.

    • charlottencredsfan

      Says he touches 96 mph. He isn’t a soft tosser.

  36. charlottencredsfan

    This could turn out to be pretty good. Like Alfredo more than most but he threw a ton of innings last year. Initial reaction: positive, maybe very positive.

      • Grand Salami

        Doug Gray sounds like he like the haul from the Fish a bit more than what Simon fetched . . .

      • Redsfan48

        Every other analyst says the Simon trade was more favorable for the reds, but it remains to be seen I guess.

    • Anthony Ridley

      he pitched alot of innings so what. he was a starter his whole career before he came here. folks think he was a first time starter here.

      • Michael E

        True, but he was also mediocre before he got here. Best time to move Simon was NOW, as his value will never be any higher. He’ll probably be a 4.00 ERA pitcher with Detroit…solid, but we do have a deep pool of SP candidates remaining. We might feel Simon’s loss in middle relief, but we got back a top SP candidate and a good SS prospect. We were going to lose Simon next year anyway, so a good deal.

  37. Phillip

    simon for suarez ….. could we not have gotten any better of a deal

    • ToddAlmighty

      Guy heading into his age 34 season, coming off a career year where he pitched more innings than the previous two years combined.

      Pretty happy with the return.

      • charlottencredsfan

        +1. Crawford looks to have some promise and as soon as next season. I’m happy!

    • docmike

      Philip, my opinion is that we fleeced the Tigers…

      • Michael E

        Same here, though not quite a fleecing, we got more quality for a past-prime, career-year middle reliever than I thought we could. Simon may be missed, but I doubt it given our SP depth. Of course, if Hoover fills that void, we’ll be reminiscing about Alfredo Simon all year long. LOL

        FYI Phillip, Crawford is immediately our #6 prospect according to MLB.com, just ahead of Phillip Irvin and just behind the SP we got for Mat Latos. Not bad adding a top 6 prospect and a potential starting SS that can get on base and hit (unlike Cosart) for a solid, but aging pitcher that has never been great, just pretty good.

        Remember, we were going to lose Simon next year anyway and he’d cost about $9 million THIS year, money we didn’t really have apparently. A good move all things considered.

    • Michael E

      Suarez has a .360 OBP in the minors with decent pop. Of course, Cosart hit pretty well in the minors and then decided hitting wasn’t important, so he quit trying. If Suarez can be an average fielding SS, we just improved at that position. Cosart is a very good fielder with average range and no bat. We could improve there, so long as we don’t add a 30+ error a year SS (unless it is Honus Wagner at the plate).

  38. charlottencredsfan

    Walt looks like the cat that ate the mouse!

  39. ToddAlmighty

    Not a bad trade at all with the Tigers.

    What’s the odds a SS-needy team trades for Cozart now? Imagine that Suarez plugs in as the starter.

  40. Steve Mancuso

    Sounds like the Latos trade is done.

  41. Steve Schoenbaechler

    Well, it looks like a combination salary dump and prospect pickup. But, I don’t see anyone being able to help right away. Maybe Suarez, if Cozart or BP go down. Or, maybe moving Todd to LF (he has said that was his favorite position) and Suarez to 3rd. It definitely doesn’t add a bat nor replace the pitcher we lose.

  42. vegastypo

    Funny, I got a note from someone who has been at the Winter Meetings, and he said that the buzz there Wednesday was that the Reds were gonna be major sellers, though perhaps wait until the trade deadline — after the All-Star Game — to really unload.

    So having heard that, and seeing today’s trades, I’m waiting to see if we get back people to help us right away.

  43. Kyle Farmer

    Detroit folks on my twitter feed are NOT happy.

    I sure hope the get a haul for Latos.

  44. Dale Pearl

    Cingrani assumes his 2013 role in the rotation again that is good news. Who will fill in for Latos?

    • Michael E

      The SP from Marlins will get a shot, Homberg, Stephenson, Howard and others will also get a shot.

      Most likely it will be Raisial Iglesias and Cingrani being SP 4 and SP 5. We have a deep pool of quality candidates. None will be as good as Latos (when healthy), but not too far off once a couple win the jobs. We are going to be fine at SP. The bullpen is what let us down in 2015, will that improve (surely it will..keep Hoover away from the stadium or give him some PEDs…maybe a bionic tendon for 105 mph fastball)?

  45. Jeff

    I wish were dumping Cueto not Latos. I think Cueto is going to get overpaid.

    • Kyle Farmer


      Right on the money here I’m afraid.

      • Kyle Farmer

        Perfect chance to buy low on the Latos extension on a guy who wants to be in Cincinnati and sell high on Cueto who has plenty of injury questions of his own. Looks like an opportunity missed to me.

        Guess I’ll wait to see what the Marlins are sending our way though.

      • pinson343

        The Reds can still sell high on Cueto. Much more value than Latos.

      • charlottencredsfan

        If Latos goes for prospects, JC isn’t going to be wearing a Reds uni in 2015.

      • Kyle Farmer

        Looks like that theory is about to be put to the test.

      • Michael E

        I think they’ll wait till mid July and if more than 10 games back, will unload Cueto for a nice package. Sure,he’ll be a rental, but lesser SPs have gotten top prospects recently. There is always a couple of contenders that have SPs/Aces go down with season-ending injuries, 2015 will be no different. I think the Reds wait till then, though if Houston were to lose their minds and offer up Springer or Cubs offer up Bryant, we’d have to move on it.

        I too am afraid will pay too much for TOO LONG for Cueto. He’ll likely want a 7 year deal and $180 or so million. NO THANKS. We can’t have 45% of the payroll tied up in two players, both over 30 (Cueto will just after new contract starts).

    • Michael E

      Agreed, pleasantly surprised given we picked up Simon off FA pile.

  46. charlottencredsfan

    If I’m Cozart, I might gauge the value of my house and how quick I can sell it. Looking like the Reds might be in full rebuild mode. How I hope!! Latos trade will tell us a lot.

  47. charlottencredsfan

    Has Bob C. turned Walt loose??

  48. Dale Pearl

    I liked Alfredo, he as a big guy and our 2014 season would have stunk even worse without him around. He is just 27 himself so he has a few years with Detroit to prove he can be a consistent 14 game winner. Of course his future could wind up being a durable middle relief guy. Wish you well Alfredo! Glad we made the trade though especially that shortstop pickup he should be starting SS for us in 2015.

  49. Keith

    Latos going to #Marlins for DeSclafani and Chad Wallach.

      • Michael E

        Why ugh? DeSclafani is the second best SP prospect the Marlins had (behind Heaney, who they also traded). I think we did well considering Latos was gone next year and coming offer injury that lowered his velocity quite a bit. He’ll be good for Marlins (most likely), but Walt did GOOD.

        No ugh for Reds fans, smart moves to lower payroll and offset some higher contracts. We can’t afford to pay 6 or 7 players over $12 million each, especially if we want Cueto (he’ll want at least $22 million a year) with Votto money jumping next year.

    • charlottencredsfan

      Can you spell R-E-B-U-I-L-D. No wonder why Walt looks so happy, he got his way. Congrats Walt!!!

      • lwblogger2

        I do have one question about the rebuild and it’s something Steve has mentioned several times. If you’re Walt Jocketty, why sign a 2-year deal to tear apart the team that you built and probably not see a winner back on the field for the 2 years you’ll still be with the club? That’s the one thing that’s stuck in my craw about the rebuild theory. It sure looks like a rebuild to me. Maybe not a total one but a pretty major overhaul nonetheless.

      • charlottencredsfan

        LW, I think half-measures are the worst thing that could have/will be done. Hopefully today was just a start. If they sign Cueto to a new contract, I’ll cry like a baby.

        100% speculation: I believe Bob C. was the “all in” guy and Walt wants to build a winner on a solid foundation – rebuild that is. A writer asked Walt about this a couple of weeks ago (rebuilding) and his reply was, “do you know who owns this team?”.

    • charlottencredsfan

      Wallach (#19th rated Marlin prospect) is a C and DeSclafani is a SP, #2 prospect for Miami. How much longer do Cueto & Leake remain Reds?? Hope they keep Mike.

      • Brian

        the only thing i can think of is that more trades are potentially coming, already deep in SP prospects and just added 2 more quality arms. Given lost latos and Simon but maybe cozart and some SP prospects are next to get moved – keeps depth started the offseason with just might be different names.

      • charlottencredsfan

        I believe we are seeing a true rebuilding going on. I don’t expect we will pick up any MLB contracts. I am really, really happy this morning!

    • jessecuster44

      Wow – I’ve seen Chad Wallach play, and he’s a gamer. An A ball gamer, but a gamer. Does he play LF? Still looking for that LF. I am assuming here that the jury is still out on Mat Latos’ health, because this is not who I expected to get in return for a top starter.

      • charlottencredsfan

        Mes in LF or 1B, long-term plan??? If so, Walt has been turned loose and we get to see what he is made of.

  50. Dale Pearl

    Tigers got suckered on the trade with Boston and with us. I almost feel bad for them.

  51. Keith

    From Jayson Stark… With #Reds acquisition of Suarez, other clubs say they expect #Reds to turn around & move Zack Cozart

    • Dale Pearl

      One can hope. His arbitration price makes the leagues worst everyday hitter not worth it.

      • lwblogger2

        I disagree because his glove is that good and at a premium defensive position. That said, if the Reds are looking to cut costs, he’s probably gone and is a logical choice.

  52. Dale Pearl

    Not sure about those 2 prospects. The catcher looks pretty good and will be ready right about the time Mesoraco wants Votto’s contract.

    • Michael E

      You need to google further. The SP we got in both trades were top prospects. They are immediately our #5 (DeScalfani) and #6 (Crawford) prospects, according to MLB.com top 20 team prospects. Both throw hard. Crawford has a heavy, sinking fastball, but a little wild (like many young SPs). DeScalfani is near MLB-ready and is just like Latos was, mid 90s fastball and out-pitch slider. We are FINE.

      Wallach being a great hitting catcher and Suarez a good OBP, near MLB-ready SS are just icing on the cake, so-to-speak.

  53. cslezak221

    i feel pretty good about simon considering how he fell back down to earth post all star break last year, but honestly giving up latos now and not getting any closer to an impact bat, a little disheartening. Considering what we gave up for simon and what we gave up for latos, and now what we receive. bummed.

    • charlottencredsfan

      My guess: Walt is fortifying the rotation because Cueto and/or Leake are gone…for the bat(s) you are looking for.

      • cslezak221

        That’s an interesting point. Yea something else seems to be brewing. It is refreshing to have some young talent to provide some depth that is for sure.

  54. Kyle Farmer

    I feel like the Detroit fans felt 10 minutes ago.

    • lwblogger2

      Yeah, it’s freaking ugly. I forsee some lean years. At least the next 2-3.

    • Michael E

      You don’t understand MLB baseball then. Detroit got hosed on the deal. The Marlins deal, if Latos is healthy, is even.

      We got TWO top prospect SPs, a young, but very good hitting Catching prospect and an MLB-ready SS…all cost-controlled (cheap) for several years. One SP is MLB-ready, albeit with a rookie year that might be rocky…if he makes the team.

      We have SP depth still and are fine. We won’t miss Simon or Latos, though Simon in Middle Relief was good. If the bullpen is improved at all (sending Hoover to Siberia is a start), we are as good or better team right now, even after the trades.

      Not ever trade of a vet to another team is bad…in this case, its a plus given reduced payroll (about $14 million saved) and a suddenly stocked farm system as far as pitching goes…we have a top 5 system now for pitching.

  55. Kyle Farmer

    I wonder if the Reds got a really bad health report on Votto when he was in town for Redsfest.

    • Michael E

      You keep acting like this was a fire sale and throwing in the towel. Explain to me why you think the Reds are suddenly a lock for last place? You do realize we still have Cueto, Bailey, Leake. We also have Cingrani, Rasiel Iglesias, Stephenson, Holmberg, DeSclafani, Axelrod and Howard to battle it out for SP 4 and SP 5 (lots of teams wished they had that kind of talent pool for back end of rotation).

      I think it will come down to Cingrani, DeSclafani and Iglesias and that is some really good talent.

  56. zaglamir

    Well the exhilaration of the Simon deal making it look like the Reds were going to compete this year didn’t last long. The Latos deal screams, “see you in 3 years, NL Central top 3.”

    • Michael E

      Nope, we’re fine at SP. Same issues with RP and LF though…for now.

    • charlottencredsfan

      Gotta be Cueto or Leake or both?? Or Chapman??

      • Dale Pearl

        I am thinking Cueto is going to Boston and is why he wasn’t moved to Florida, as I would think that would be Cueto’s dream destination.

      • Brian

        doesn’t look like boston is in the market for a SP as they made a trade and also signed masterson

  57. Brian

    With two SP gone, what do you think the rotation looks like: cueto, bailey, leake, cingrani, toss up of DeScalfani/Stephenson?

    • redmountain

      I would assume that Dylan Axelrod gets a chance and DeScalfani goes to AAA. Louisville looks like a pitching rich team next year. I will know a lot more about how good a trade this is in two or three years, but I like both of them now.

    • Michael E

      You forget the new Cuban? Iglesias and Cingrani should have inside track, with DeSclafani next, followed by Axelrod, Stepheson and Howard. We have a deep pool of candidates and I think we’ll be just as good at SP…and much cheaper on the payroll.

      Good trades today and yes, we still have a contending team, so long as Votto improves health-wise and BP doesn’t continue to swoon downward to .260 with no power or speed.

    • Michael E

      Maybe even Lorenzen surprises us in the spring…lots of talent in the minors after adding two top SPs from the trades today. We have a bright pitching future (as well as the present…still bright). Hitting is still shaky though, unless Votto is healthy and mashing.

  58. Kyle Farmer

    If you ever want to see the definition of selling low, just look at that Latos trade.

    • redmountain

      I think with the Reds, they have a surplus of starting pitching and I think the Wallach kid may be a good addition in two or three years. he purpose of these trades is to lower payroll and free up some money. Walt is not done yet imo.

    • Michael E

      Latos was a top prospect when he was in the minors at one time. This Marlins kid is nearly a clone of Latos, just cheaper and younger (and of course, unproven). Latos still comes with some injury risk. He wasn’t throwing as hard in 2014.

      Yeah, he might have been better in 2015 and maybe we get more in trade, but I think we did as well as possible all things considered. Latos was not an ace and not close to one. Cueto is the SP that could bring a TWO top prospect deal, not Latos.

  59. Hotto4votto

    I’m not getting the return on Latos. Sure both seem to be decent prospects, and down the line the C may really help since our system is devoid of offensive catchers at the moment. Maybe DeScalfani helps next year…he did post an 8.5K/9 against a 2.7BB/9 last year. Seems to limit HRs, .5/9 last year. He’s close, so maybe he and Moscot/Stephenson/Lorenzen/Iglesias compete for that fifth spot. Maybe this paves the way to deal SP prospect(s) for a LF. Who knows…all I know is that I’m still unclear about the 2015 Reds direction.

    • Michael E

      Decent? The Marlins #2 pitching prospect only decent? He instantly becomes a top SP prospect for us, just behind Stephenson, maybe lumped in with Howard, Lorenzen and Lively, but closer to ready than any of our SP prospects, including Stephenson.

      We did VERY WELL. These are middling prospects we got today. We got two top tier SP prospects (both now in our top 10 at #5 and #6), a good hitting catching prospect and a SS that might be better all-around than Cosart RIGHT NOW. That is a good haul for a journeyman SP4 pitcher and an SP coming off injuries…both of whom were going to be gone next year anyway, unless we severely overpaid them (no thanks).

  60. JoshG

    I’m still hoping that there is another name coming back in the Latos deal

  61. Dale Pearl

    Rangers select Delino DeShields Jr. from the Astros. in other news. I guess we can rule out picking him up for his dad.

  62. Drew

    Anthony DeSclafani and Chad Wallach from Marlins for Latos seems awful bad…but I don’t know much on prospects…

    • Michael E

      DeSclafani was #2 SP prospect just behind the stud Heaney. Wallach is a .300+ hitting catcher in A ball. A top SP prospect and a solid catching prospect is a pretty good return for an SP not yet recovered from injury and leaving after 2015 anyway.

    • Michael E

      #2 SP (for the Marlins…not all of baseball of course, more like top 25 in all of minors).

  63. Mark Bradford

    The rebuilding begins and I am very happy! Smart moves by the Reds to shed payroll.

    • charlottencredsfan

      I’m thinking very hard. Walt doesn’t make many trades but has he made a bad one when he has been with the Reds??

      • ToddAlmighty

        Travis Wood for Sean Marshall

      • Grand Salami

        You usually get a pass for injuries.

      • Kyle Farmer

        Broxton seemed borderline but I haven’t followed how the two guys we sent to KC have done since. Otherwise, I really don’t think so.

      • ToddAlmighty

        Edwin Encarnacion for Scott Rolen

      • charlottencredsfan

        I thought about that. Do the Reds make the playoffs in 2010 w/o Rolen. This is the best I could think of and you are probably right but Rolen certainly provided value.

      • Kyle Farmer

        I think that wasn’t a good trade. It was a great trade. Rolen was critical to the development of the team. EE was an attitude problem, was blocked on the roster by Votto, and I still think his positive drug test is only a matter of time.

      • ToddAlmighty

        Since the trade…
        Rolen: 7.6 WAR
        Encarnacion: 16 WAR

        Rolen isn’t the reason the Reds made the playoffs in 2010. I am pretty sure that an MVP trophy for Votto did that.

      • Grand Salami

        This is crazy. He was picked off waivers from the Jays by the A’s. Then came back to the Jays after being DFA-ed.

        The guy had never until age 28 his best slugging percentage was .480 and for the last three years he hasn’t been below .530.

        That is not natural. How he and other Blue Jays have avoided the pee police is a question I can’t answer.

      • ToddAlmighty

        Salami, probably the same way Bautista avoided it. Goes to Toronto at age 27 as a 15 HR hitter, turns 28 and hits 13 HR, turns 29 and hits 54 HR, turns 30 and hits 43 HR.

      • Grand Salami

        I just don’t think the Reds would ever have had enjoyed the Blue Jay’s version of EE. We don’t have the ‘juice’ to develop players in the same way.

      • lwblogger2

        I’d be with you on that one 100% if I thought that EE could really play 3B… Of course it’s possible that with some work, he may have been a decent LF.

      • Hotto4votto

        At the time or in retrospect? The Wood for Marshall deal backfired on us due to Marshall’s health and prior misuse of Chapman. Wood would be very helpful this year to plug in at the back of the rotation, and also last year when we were down many so starters.

        But yes, his other trades he has actually made have tended to provide us value while giving up little in the short term.

  64. Kyle Farmer

    Did something happen in the banana market? I’m only half joking.

  65. Drew

    I think Joe Fan is going to hate both of these deals, because lets be honost, neither trade brought back anything. Sure they are “prospects” which to Joe fan means LOSER. In today’s game you can’t play for “tomorrow” you have to play for the upcoming season and not worry about past that. It’s sad but Walt will not be looked well upon by a majority of Reds fans off of these two deals.

    • Michael E

      Yes Joe Fan is mad, but the studious fan that knows the minors and prospects are just as key as what is currently on the MLB roster, are quite happy with today’s moves.

      These trades in no way keeps the 2015 Reds from competing. We have a gaggle of SPs that will compete for SP4 and SP5 spots and I think we’ll come out ALMOST as well as if we kept Latos and Simon for those spots.

      We shed about $14 million in payroll (assuming the hefty arb raises for Latos and Simon) and added two top 10 prospects to our SP pool (both are now top 5 SP prospects in our system, one near MLB-ready).

      Joe Fan is mad. Serious Fan is fine with the moves to reduce payroll, add top prospects, move a 33 SP at peak career value (downward from here) and move an SP coming off injury and bound to walk away after 2015 anyway.

  66. Van

    Reds just picked up Cam Maron in the Rule 5 Draft

    • Hotto4votto

      In the Major League part? From what I found he’s a A+ level catcher who has on played one game at AA. For the AAA portion I buy it.

      • Grand Salami

        Late bloomer but his last season of A+ was as successful as he’s been. The 23 year old averages .280-.290 and consistently floats and OBP .100 points higher. Very disciplined. Not a ton of power – a future Scott Hatteberg?

  67. ToddAlmighty

    Not sure I feel nearly as good about the Latos trade as I do the Simon trade. Latos has always been a sub-3.5 ERA type guy heading into his age 27 year, and last year was the first time he had pitched less than 31 starts since his rookie year.

    Don’t think I like it at all.

    • Michael E

      I agree that Latos was/is a quality pitcher, but you CANNOT dismiss the injury concerns. He should bounce back to a solid SP, but he might never again be that SP2 we had. Also, he was gone next year. We will only be able to afford ONE of Cueto, Leake or Latos… in my humble opinion.

  68. rfay00

    Low return?

    Per MLB.com:

    Anthony DeSclafani is Miami’s #2 overall prospect with an above average fastball

    Chad Wallach is Miami’s #19 overall prospect and has a .322/.431/.457 slash line this year.

    From Detroit:

    Jonathon Crawford is the #2 overall prospect and had an awesome minor league season last year.

    I like what I see so far.

    • Kyle Farmer

      You can look at the trades separately. Certainly a low return for Latos who was the Reds undisputed ace in 2013. Not at all a low return for a 33 year old middle relief pitcher.

      • Michael E

        Latos has NEVER been an ACE Kyle. Just because he defaulted to #1 with Cueto hurt didn’t make him an Ace. Was Jimmy Haynes an Ace when he was our opening day starter and SP 1? Of course not.

        Latos has been an SP2 for a couple of years, not quite good enough to be an Ace or SP1 type. At least not on a team with solid/good pitching. On the 90s Reds he’d be SP1, but again, not an Ace. Don’t over-value him just because he’s been traded.

    • ToddAlmighty

      Prospect rankings in a team’s farm system needs perspective. All #2 prospects aren’t equal.

      I know this is just Bleacher Report, but in here it has the Tigers having the 29th ranked farm system and the Marlins with the 25th.

      Have to put it in perspective. Wallach being the 19th prospect on the 25th farm isn’t particularly impressive at all. The Reds are ranked 17th on that list and their 19th prospect is Matt Magill.

  69. CP

    His contract is part of the reason these trades were necessary.

  70. Drew

    So…we traded a catcher to get Latos…then trade Latos for a cather…hmmm

    • Van

      And that same catcher we traded was then used to trade for Matt Kemp. Oh, the irony.

    • Michael E

      Well, the catcher was the lower prospect, so not really true. We traded Latos for a near MLB-ready SP (near Latos clone, mid 90s FB and wicked slider) and a very good hitting A ball catching prospect.

  71. Mark Bradford

    Brandon, Votto and Homer better not complain about the trades today. Their contracts along with poor fan attendance made the trades necessary.

    • Kyle Farmer

      Fair point on the attendance. We go to about 20-30 games per year and drive 2.5 hours to get to Cincy. I remember a beautiful, sunny Sunday afternoon looking around and thinking that nobody who wasn’t there that day should complain if there was a fire sale over the winter. I’m pretty sure I tweeted it…..need to go back and look at my tweets for the date.

    • ToddAlmighty

      Reds had 2.476m people come to watch a pretty awful 76 win team.

      In 2013 there were 2.531m that came to see an okay 90 win team.

      I feel like when they refused to make the move that needed to be made in 2013 for a chance to win, and then came into 2014 with a clearly inferior team to the previous one, and won 14 less games (and the ones they did win were often not any fun to watch) then I think that’s still a very acceptable attendance.

      Hell, in fact despite the small drop in attendance, the Reds went from the 15th most attendance in MLB in 2013 to the 13th most attendance in 2014. This in a 300,000 person city.

      Don’t blame fan attendance on any of this.

      • jessecuster44

        yes. You want to drive attendance, make trades that have immediate impact. Like a power bat in LF. We got one of those today, right?

      • Kyle Farmer

        Lots of empty seats on sunny, summer Sunday afternoons. I know because I was there. Had those seats been filled, who knows what today would be like. To say fan attendance isn’t a factor is silly.

      • lwblogger2

        Gonna be 2 more empty seats for 25 games this season. My package won’t be renewed. I’ll watch on TV this year and maybe take in a couple/few games as a treat.

      • Mark Bradford

        Fan attendance is the main factor. They expect yearly increases, that’s why they resigned Votto and Bailey. They lost money in 2014 and are looking at another loss in revenue in 2015, that’s why they needed to shed payroll.

      • redmountain

        Or maybe they are shedding payroll in order to afford some one in a trade or a FA. The offseason has only just begun. Many more moves have to be made.

      • TubbyRed

        How do you know the Reds organization in fact lost money in 2014? Attendance did go down but ticket prices went up also.

      • MrRed

        And sorry, but the differences in attendance between 2014 and 2013 aren’t enough to merit any conclusion that the Reds were losing money. In fact, they’ve probably gained money through revenue sharing and TV.

  72. SabrChris

    The naive hopeful fan in me believes they are clearing $ and collecting prospects to make a run at J Upton. Then I put down the bottle.

    • charlottencredsfan

      Yup, some people shouldn’t drink. Odds are further reduction in payroll, not an increase.

      • lwblogger2

        Well Charlotte, then this fan here is very, very unhappy. I didn’t think they were that far away and if they were indeed suffering that much financially then perhaps they shouldn’t have made some of the long term commitments that they have.

      • Grand Salami

        I think there is a philosophy that a healthy core decides this team’s fate (core now consisting of top three in rotation: Cueto, Bailey, Leake and the following everyday players: Votto, Bruce, Mes, Fraz, BP). Why wouldn’t they? Outside of Cueto, Mes and Fraz the core failed (Leake replaced Latos in top 3).

        They have the arms to replace Latos and Simon (at least their last year versions) and now they can add a replacement level LF to the mix. It’s preparing for the future without compromising your team for 2015.

        That’s my read.

      • lwblogger2

        That may be true but then I’d go with what Charlotte has been saying and say they should just go ahead and blow the team up and stock like crazy. Doing what it looks like they are doing looks like a team that will be in the 78-85 win range. That isn’t going to do it.

      • charlottencredsfan

        I understand LW and respect you bigtime. Yes, we see this one differently. Your right they made bets they couldn’t cover. They bought stock on margin and when it was called………. That’s the past.

        What to do now is the question. Dig in or venture forth in the world? This was a fun group to watch for the most part and far better than what preceded it Great group of guys too. But the time has passed, windows have closed. I was really dreading next season. I do feel for you but in the end, I think this is the right way to go.

      • Bob Purkey

        Castellini needs the money for the brand new produce distribution hub that was just announced this week being built down here in Georgia

    • Mark Bradford

      I am sure the Reds budgeted for an increase in attendance and they had a decline, I am guessing they lost about $7m this year and are expecting a $10million decline in revenue in 2015, thus the need for the payroll decline.

  73. lwblogger2

    If I was a Reds’ player, I’d be pissed as and would be calling Walt asking to be next.

    • Michael E

      Why? We didn’t lose THAT much (on the whole) considering we have a slew of talented SPs ready to fill in for Latos and Simon. Why does everything think losing an SP3 and SP4 type will kill the team?

      We still have a top 5 NL rotation. We need the bullpen to be better than 2014 and some health for Votto and we’re still easily an NL Central contender.

  74. Carl Sayre

    I have seen all the negative comments about the Latos trade and some of the complaints are from the same people complaining about inactivity. I am not sure that Latos would have brought a power hitting LF with there still being FA pitchers on the market that can be signed for more than one year. Had there have been that opportunity for say Upton the money saved from getting rid of Latos would not cover Upton. I hope that Jocketty is not finished and maybe Wallach is a trade piece to pair with Cozart for the LF we need. Suarez had an OBP of .319 in a small sample size last year. How would that translate leading him off and dropping BHam to the 8 hole until he improves his OBP? I am not convinced this is rebuilding mode until I see Cueto gone.

    • Michael E

      The Trades were smart moves. Joe Fans on this board just assume anyone received that isn’t an MLB all-star is worthless. Lazy on thier parts to not at least look up these top SP prospects we got and realize they’re both what Mat Latos was a few years ago, albeit slightly different ages. Cheaper, but unproven, similar skill sets. Walt did well, Joe Fan will be the same ones talking about how they were all for the Latos trade when DeSclafani is a solid SP2 in two years.

  75. Redsman

    Yeah, stop drinking the cool aid. MONEY is the bottom line to this organization.

    I don’t think we are nearly as clueless as you think, Michael. DeSclafani is still just one of thousands of prospects who get a taste of the show each year. Whether or not he turns out to be a 2 or 3, or eventually winds up in the pen remains to be seen. His course so far certainly is NOT on par with that of Matt Latos however. By the time he was almost 25, he had already posted 18 wins on a bad Padres team.

  76. David Potteiger

    What’s interesting is that most think we got a steal for Simon, and didn’t get enough for Latos. If Latos went to the Tigers and Simon to the Marlins, I think people would have a much different impression of the deals.

    I was not a fan of the Latos trade only because I’d rather make a qualifying offer and let him walk, but then again it isn’t my money.