Final R H E
  New York Mets (68-75) 4 8 1
  Cincinnati Reds (67-76) 3 9 2
W: Wheeler (10-9)    L: Latos (5-5)
 FanGraphs Win Probability |  The Worldwide Leader’s Box Score    |   Game Photos

The Reds didn’t score in the first inning (something they’ve only done once since August 17) and were again no-hit in the first three innings. Skip Schumaker got the Reds first hit in the bottom of the fourth. After yesterday’s offensive explosion of two runs, the Mets held the Reds to one run and five hits today.

If Mat Latos was attempting to answer Mike Maffie’s question from Friday (Will the real Mat Latos please stand up?) it was positive. Over six innings, Latos gave up seven hits and one walk while striking out five Mets. He gave up no earned runs.

The Reds threatened in the fourth inning. After Schumaker broke up the now-daily no-hitter threat, Todd Frazier was hit by a pitch and Devin Mesoraco worked a walk. However Brandon Phillips, trying to pull a ball pitched outside, grounded back to the mound (video) into a rally-killing double play. Phillips (batting fifth) was hitting .154/.203/.185 since coming off the disabled list. Jay Bruce then grounded out to second. Both Phillips and Bruce had extra-base hits later in the game. For Bruce his solo homer in the ninth was his 16th of the year.

The Reds scored in the bottom of the fifth. With two outs, Latos singled to center. Billy Hamilton followed with a hit. Schumaker drove in Latos with a hit to center field (video), putting the Reds up 1-0.

But the Mets responded in the top of the sixth thanks to a 2-base error by Billy Hamilton. With one out, Hamilton let Wilton Flores’ fly ball go off his glove. Radio broadcaster Jim Kelch described Hamilton’s play as a “little casual” and Doug Flynn said that while it was “uncharacteristic” for Hamilton, that Kelch had “hit the nail on the head, he was loafing it.” The error proved costly. Curtis Granderson drove Flores in with a single. With two outs, catcher Anthony Recker drilled a two-run homer off the left-field facing. It was only Hamilton’s second error of the season. All three runs were unearned.

Sam LeCure and Carlos Contreras each walked the first batter they faced. Contreras actually walked the second hitter, too.

Curtis Granderson hit a solo home run off J.J. Hoover in the eighth inning. But Granderson should have been out earlier in the at bat when Jack Hannahan dropped the outfielder’s foul pop-up for an error. I can’t tell you how sick I am of the botched plays at first base. I know Joey Votto wasn’t the greatest defensively last year, but every misplay now is an irritating reminder of how the Reds (five months after Votto’s injury) still don’t have a legitimate back-up first baseman. The error allowed the game-winning run.

The relentless Reds rallied in the ninth against Mets closer Jenrry Mejia. After Bruce’s solo homer (video), Hannahan doubled. Chris Heisey made an out but Ryan Ludwick singled (video), knocking in Hannahan. Bryan Price sent Kristopher Negron in to pinch run for Ludwick. After Hamilton walked (!), Skip Schumaker flew out. That brought Frazier to the plate with the tying run at second. Frazier grounded out to third to end the game. Or so it seemed. After Super Todd was ruled out by the first base umpire, the replay review overturned the call (video), loading the bases for Devin Mesoraco. But sadly mighty Devin struck out. Because it had to be another one-run loss.

67 Responses

    • Steve Mancuso

      Yeah, that’s why I did a little more play-by-play and added a few video links. Not on Reds TV, either.

      • Robby20

        Not on MLB Extra Innings either for some reason

  1. Jeff Morris

    You hit it on the head Steve, error on popup at 1st by Jack, then HR given up again by Hoover. I still don’t understand why they don’t leave Hoover down in AAA and let him work on his stuff for next year (if he is with the Reds next year). That one run cost the Reds the win.

    • tct

      AAA season is over. Nowhere else for Hoover to work on things, except in his backyard.

      • pinson343

        “Accountability anyone ?” is a major issue, even worse than last year. It goes well beyond the two errors and Hoover’s HR. Kelch and Flynn pointed out about half a dozen miscommunications between Reds defenders, most of them between Mesoraco and Hannahan.

        Foul popups on the first base side were an adventure the whole game. After Hamilton casually muffs the fly ball and Granderson singles, it should have stayed at 1-1. But Herrara hits a foul pop up that was “in the air a long time and in play, someone had to catch it and Mesoraco was closest”, but no communication between him and Hannahan, it’s not caught. Then he hits another foul pop up on the first base side, and “Latos runs toward and shouts at Hannahan to catch it, ready to catch it himself if needed.” All the quotes are from Kelch’s call.

        Latos at that point had to be extremely ticked off, and we know what can happen when he is (think Buster Posey). His first pitch to the backup catcher is a fastball grooved right down Broadway, 3-1 game.

      • Thegaffer

        They need to release Hanahan immediately. He is not coming back anyway, show some guts reds!

      • VaRedsFan

        He was recently seen working out in the back yard, then the next door neighbor took him deep

      • lwblogger2

        Zing! I feel so bad for JJ Hoover and I hope he gets it sorted out. I actually hope he gets it sorted out for the Reds as I still feel his stuff plays. Still, very, very funny comment!

  2. ToddAlmighty

    Need someone to make errors to allow unearned runs to score? We got Jack for that.

    • lwblogger2

      It’s tough because Hannahan has always been a plus defender at the corners. He can’t play 3B at all right now because of his shoulder and seems to be below average at 1B too. His bat has never been that good and has been brutal since his surgery. I can’t see any reason he is taking up a spot on the roster. Lutz would be at 1B just about every day, especially against RHP until the end of the season if I were managing.

  3. pinson343

    My above comment was getting too long, but the “miscommunications” go on and on. In the 8th, after Hannahan drops a foul pop up and Hoover picks him up by giving up yet another HR, Hannahan and Mes almost collide on a foul pop up. Kelch: “No communication there between those two, and Hoover should have been over there to help with that.

    On a fly ball to Hamilton in the 9th, he’s casual again and assumes the runner on first won’t tag up, which he does. Kern points out that Bruce should have communicated to Hamilton that the guy is tagging.

    I could go on and on …..

    • ohiojimw

      It is stuff like this and the TOOTBLANs and more (“the on and on” you mentioned) that make me scratch my head when folks act like it is crazy to talk about not bringing back the manager and coaches for 2014.

      The injuries were brutal; but, cleaning up these “little” things have nothing to do with the injuries except that the team probably could have skated by at close to .500 if they had been taken care of. The one thing a team can do is play the game right even if they lack the skills to play it well. This team rarely does either.

      Why should upper management or the public or any one believe the same management team will clean up these issues next year when they haven’t addressed them this year?

      • RedAlert

        Seems to have gotten progressively worse – seen no improvement whatsoever – it creates a losing mentality

      • lwblogger2

        We got your meaning… Look, I can see a case for firing Price but I don’t think I’d axe him unless the Reds fall to last. Then I don’t think I’d have he or Jocketty back next year. If the Reds finish last I’d clean house, keeping Hatcher and that’s it.

        Biggest issue with letting Price go is you’d basically be paying him for 2 years to do nothing for your team and I still feel he could right the ship. He’d be on a short leash next year though if I did bring him back.

      • ohiojimw

        Clearly I would prefer to start clean in 2015 versus the short leash approach which likely IMO mean switching horses in midstream.

        I don’t think they would end up paying the full price for Price over the two years. He is still >60. He would want to work; and, I suspect more than one org would want him as a pitching coach. The Reds would only be on the hook for the difference between what they had promised to pay him and what he was making elsewhere. If multiple teams are chasing him somebody is going to sweeten the pot with a signing bonus or some such which would reduce/ cancel out the Reds obligation. Or depending just how his contract is written, the Reds could always assign him a role in the org such as pitching coordinator; and, if hr didn’t want that job, he could settle with them for his free agency.

  4. pinson343

    Steve pointed out the worst AB of the game. Bases loaded, none out, 2-2 count to BP. Ball 3 well off the outside corner is thrown. Shouldn’t swing at it, but if you do please go the other way, drive in a run or maybe two. Even a 4-6-3 gets a run in.

    He tries to pull it (thinking grand slam HR ?) and bounces it back to the mound for an easy 1-2-3 DP. No runs for the Reds. Boo.

  5. pinson343

    The lineup made me groan. It was stacked with LHed hitters because Wheeler is tough on righties. But why Hannahan instead of Pena, who was hitting one line drive after another the first two games of the series ?

    Because Price wanted to rest Pena before the Cardinal series ? How about resting Phillips instead ? He could use it and he’s a RHed hitter and Santiago, a switch hitter, could have played 2nd base. Santiago with a .358 OBP, who’s hit well lately but rides the bench for games 2 and 3 of the series.

    Yes I’m venting about Ramon Santiago not being in the lineup. Shows what a season it’s been. And I’m not a Bengals fan, can’t just turn that way.

  6. pinson343

    Most common Reds headlines of the season:

    “Reds 9th inning rally falls short.”

    “Reds bullpen loses lead and game.”

    “Reds waste excellent pitching performance.”

    Others ?

    • Big Red Ghost in this Machine

      Skip Schumaker hitting second as Reds brain trust again battles hallucinations?

    • WVRedlegs

      Missed Opportunities, Missed Pitches and Missing In Action Make for a Season of Missed Playoffs.

  7. pinson343

    BTW either Kelch or Flynn said Hamilton was “drifting” toward the ball he dropped, don’t remember the word “loafing”. Of course drifting implies loafing.

    • sultanofswaff

      Drifting doesn’t leave you with any margin of error in the event of a wind gust or uncertainty about where the wall is. I always coached my boys to outrun the ball so you can have your momentum going back to the infield in the act of catching the ball. To me, it looked like Billy had a flash of alligator arms.

      As for Hannahan, words fail.

      • pinson343

        Yeh drifting is fundamentally bad.

        Signing Hannahan for 2 years was something I never understood, not for a minute.

      • VaRedsFan

        And again with Schumaker for two years

  8. jessecuster44

    The very fact that Hoover is pitching in a meaningful situation shows that Reds management has no clue what they are doing. If the Reds were a dog, they’d be named Old Yeller. Take them out back and get the season over with.

    • greenmtred

      I’m not sure any situation involving the Reds is meaningful at this point, and assume that they don’t want to give up on Hoover because he has a major league arm, and was good last season. Still, I wince when he comes into the game.

  9. Tom Reed

    Leading the majors in one-run loses and a ‘big’ four game home stand coming up with Louie.

  10. Robby20

    Not the case today but the Reds also lead the NL in failed reviews of umpires calls. (at least that is what Fox reported yesterday)

  11. Robby20

    I don’t think Price will or should get fired but one has to be a little worried by the number of mental lapses in the field since the all star break. Alarming actually. I always thought the mental preparation for the game was part of the tone set by the manager. I really don’t think this is a matter of guys pressing and trying too hard. It really appears that many of the players are looking forward to the off season.

    • Tom Reed

      And many of them could be off the team in the new season.

    • pinson343

      They were pressing when they thought they were still in it but I agree that the poor play today had nothing to do with pressing. It was just a lazy Sunday at the ballpark for a lot of them.

  12. Bonehead

    Forgive my idiocy, but how are home runs unearned? I get that a guy on base for one may be unearned, but how is the batter’s run unearned? Is it because of the 2 out error before the HR?

    • CP (@nomoresalads)

      The batter would have never had the opportunity to hit the HR but for the error.

      The one that always bothered me was when a pitcher made an error that led to a run…the pitcher earned that run.

      • ohiojimw

        I’m pretty much on the opposite side of this coin Perhaps I am something of a scoring diva; but to me what a pitcher does as a fielder is different from what he does as a pitcher. Once he makes the pitch, he is just another fielder. And hey, especially on this site we wouldn’t want blur the line between ERA and FIP 🙂

      • CP

        I see your point there…what about before the pitch is thrown, i.e. pickoff attempts? I’ve always viewed unearned runs as an attempt to protect pitchers’ stat lines from poor fielding baseball teams, rather than an attempt to maintain statistical purity.

    • pinson343

      Two different situations today. For the Recker HR, the 2 runs were unearned because they count them inning by inning. If Hamilton catches the fly ball, then Herrera’s out is the 3rd out and no runs score that inning. Any run scored after that counts as unearned, even if there are 10 of them. Obviously, some unearned runs are partly due to poor pitching.

      In the case of Granderson’s dropped foul pop, once that’s ruled an error, then as far as earned runs go, he’s already out. Once again poor pitching can help along an unearned run. It usually does, actually.

  13. WVRedlegs

    Beer goggles don’t even make the season look any better. Even at 2:00 AM.

  14. cfd3000

    This was a frustrating loss made tougher by the oh-so-close comeback in the 9th. And though I fully understand what constitutes earned vs. unearned runs, the home run by Recker was not Hamilton’s fault. That’s all on Latos. I was not as pleased with Latos’ outing today as some observers here. I would love to have seen him shake off the Hamilton flub and say, effectively, no worries I’ve got your back. Maybe he was out of gas in that inning as several balls were hard hit but I was disappointed that he couldn’t finish off that inning. On the plus side, I’m pretty numb to that stuff this year. Planning to thaw in time for pitchers and catchers in February.

  15. User1022

    Honest question: If Dusty were still manager this year, and all other events played out the same (injuries etc.), do you believe the Reds would have a better record than they do now?

    I’m not so sure myself… I do remember when Dusty was managing when Votto went out with his first long term injury, and the team responded by going on a huge tear. How much of that was players “stepping up” and how much of that was Dusty “rallying the troops”?

    I guess we have no way of knowing….

    • greenmtred

      Good question and you’re right: No way of knowing. I was a Dusty supporter (or, at least, not a basher), but I recall that when Votto went down, Frazier took his place and hit, if anything, better than Joey (well, almost), earning his SuperTodd name. Was Dusty responsible? Dunno. They also had Rolen who, clearly, set a tone out of proportion to his declining skills.

    • WVRedlegs

      Maybe the fairer question should be, How would have Price done with last year’s roster and injury situation? Better than Dusty? I would like to think yes. There is some evidence to support that and some to refute it. But no way of really knowing, like you say.

      • Vicferrari

        Agree, but losing faith that Price would be better- but to attribute the season to just Votto is very shortsighted- it is the bullpen, Dusty had guys who could consistently get outs in the 6th and 7th- and what if Dusty got Cingrani from 2014. last year, not sure if the point is that Reds should have kept Baker; to me they had to go a different direction

  16. MesosBat

    I wonder how many guys were ducking down the tunnel to check on their fantasy football…

  17. Shchi Cossack

    The Old Cossack appreciates the accounts and descriptions offered for the game I missed. The commentary just serves to reenforce the idea that several players have had ample opportunity to demonstrate their capability and contribution during the 2014 campaign and have used those opportunities to demonstrate they are definitely not the answer, so why not finally give the players who have not had such an opportunity the chance to play. At the very least, they would appreciate the opportunity and wouldn’t coast to through the last few weeks of the season.

    • Drew

      Why do fans assume players coast through the end of the season?

      • Shchi Cossack

        The lackadasical play and effort from yesterday’s game kinda speaks for itself.

    • Michael J Hampton

      Sadly, I have given up on Price’s managerial skills in the areas of developing young players, specifically Soto and Lutz. The opportunities were there to play these guys and and he let them “rot” on the bench. Rather than take a chance and see what they could contribute with some regular playing time, he took the safe way out and chose the mediocrity of Schumaker, Santiago, Bernadina, and later Hannahan. And yeah, I’ll get hammered, but I’ll even throw Pena in there because he’s a career bench player and as the season has progressed he has reverted back to close to his norm. This is not a shot at those guys, I like those guys. But, they were signed as bench players and would have been at least adequate in that role. However, nothing in their career numbers would suggest that they could be anything more, and they haven’t been. Had Soto or even Lutz been given some decent playing time and produced anywhere near their projected numbers, then they would have easily surpassed the total production from those guys.

      In particular the misuse of Lutz over the last two years has been a sore spot. They have called him up multiple times just to sit on the bench disrupting his development. Even though one of our “experts’ on here chastised me and told me how the 95 ML PA spread over two seasons with a week or more between games was worth way more to him than regular playing time at AAA and the 400+ PA at AAA that Lutz has lost due to sitting on the Reds bench, I strongly disagree and think the Reds have done him a major disservice. Lutz has a little over 200 career PA at AAA and at this point in his career he should probably have 3 or 4 times that many.

      • sultanofswaff

        In Price’s defense, he’s trying to win every game because he doesn’t want to get fired, you know? So in the absence of a directive from the owner or GM, I would think player development does not enter his thought process. Price himself said the only reason the younger guys are getting a look is because the veterans have had all season to show what they (can’t) do. He never said anyone told him to play the kids.

      • Michael J Hampton

        Well, if he was depending on those guys performance to keep his job, he’d be on thin ice (which I find unlikely). They didn’t perform, or rather they performed as their career stats and age would indicate they would. And you are right about the GM. He shouldn’t have brought Lutz up and disrupted his development if he didn’t intend for Price to play him.

      • CP

        One, with a very small exception for certain elite prospects on exceptionally bad baseball teams, I don’t think it’s Price’s job to “develop” young players, particularly when you are in contention for a playoff spot. Even can’t-miss guys like Oscar Taveras sit on teams in playoff contention

        Price’s job is to put the team and it’s players in the best position to succeed. Remember how Dusty treated Devin Mesoraco? That wasn’t a development issue…that was a complete failure to recognize an asset. He took a guy with a potentially elite-level bat for his position, and turned him into a non-asset.

        Second, the bigger issue, however, is that neither Lutz or Soto are prospects. Both are 4th OF/utility guys, brought up to be roster filler. Lutz has yet to even succeed consistently at AA and AAA (I’m sorry, but 100 PAs in AA don’t equal success). I think it’s pretty obvious they don’t care about developing Donald Lutz. Soto is similar, he’s a guy who never had a wRC+ higher than 107 in AAA. Worse, he plays 1B, so that number is even less impressive.

        For some reason, fans took a shining to Lutz. I’m guessing this is a Marty thing, because I remember Marty being really pumped up about Lutz’s spring training in 2013. Lutz isn’t even a top 15 prospect for the Reds. He may eventually become a MLB backup level OF/1B at somepoint, but right now he’s a warm body, that’s it…

      • CP

        Probably. Current bench players are generally better than future bench players. The only I’m kinda mixed about is Hannahan, but being a veteran and under contract will affect playing time decisions.

  18. sultanofswaff

    I really thought we had a chance when the Reds won the replay challenge in the 9th.

    The other day I saw that 47% of all replay challenges in baseball this season have been overturned. 47%! It’s laughable that these umps can be wrong this much and still collect 100% of their paycheck.

    Can anyone think of another profession where that’s the case?

    • Shchi Cossack

      I think the 47% figure is misleading. That doesn’t represent 47% of the calls made (I think everyone realizes this). The 47% represents the number of calls actually challenged, after having the opportunity to review the replays before issuing the challenge. I’m surprised that the figure isn’t much higher since internal review of the replay is completed before deciding to challenge any call and only those calls deemed a good chance of being reversed are then challenged.

    • VaRedsFan

      I find 47% low. After all, the team gets a chance to see the replay, then challenge. If you see the replay and decide it’s too close to overturn, then you shouldn’t challenge. Because of this, I think the number should be around 85%

      • sultanofswaff

        Precisely. I mean, if these guys are blowing half of all ‘close’ calls and all the rest are plays we could officiate from our la-z-boys, then why have/pay 4 umps on the field at all??? Or heck, let’s have celebrity umpires who handle all the easy calls and video is used for anything close.

      • Grand Salami

        I have seen a number of replays that seem to provide necessary video evidence to overturn the call on the field and the umps have not done so. I think the number could be 60% just factoring in cases where the umpires insist the replay is unclear but video suggests otherwise.

  19. ToddAlmighty

    Interesting fact.. the Reds are 2-7 in their last three series. In their only two wins, they have scored 5 total runs. Heisey has driven in 4 of those 5 runs on 3 HRs.