Final R H E
Chicago Cubs (59-72) 3 8 0
Cincinnati Reds (63-69) 0 3 1
W: Wood (8-11) L: Cueto (15-8) S: Rondon (22)
FanGraphs Win Probability | Box Score | Game Photos | Game Thread

reds cubs

The Reds lost the first of a three game series against the Chicago Cubs on Tuesday night, 3-0. It was the Reds 12th shutout of 2014. The Reds have now lost 69 games in 2014. Last season, the Reds lost a total of 72 games. In 2012, the Reds only lost 65 games all season.

Biggest Play of the Game

According to Fangraphs WPA statistic (winning percentage added), the most important play of the game was Arismendy Alcantara’s 2-run HR in the 7th inning, giving the Cubs a 3-0 lead. That play decreased the Reds chances of winning by 16.3% (from 25.0% to 8.7%).

Other important plays (+/- indicates how much each play increased or decreased the Reds chances of winning):

  • +5.1% – 6th inning: Cueto gets Valbuena to fly out to end the inning. Cubs stranded runners on 1st & 3rd.
  • -11.2% – 1st inning: Rizzo hit a solo HR off Cueto. Cubs lead 1-0.
  • -4.3% – 8th inning: Frazier grounds out to end the inning. Reds stranded runners on 1st & 2nd

Player of the Game

Travis Wood: 6.0 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 5 K, 1.97 FIP, 0.37 WPA

The former Red absolutely dominated the Reds for six innings tonight. It’s not like Wood is having a stellar season either. He entered play today with a 4.91 ERA, 4.21 FIP, and 1.52 WHIP.


Johnny Cueto dominated until the 7th inning, when he gave up a 2-run HR to Arismendy Alcantara. All in all, it was a pretty solid start from Cueto. However, with the current state of the Reds offense, you won’t win many games allowing 3 runs.

Zack Cozart makes playing SS look so easy. Every single night he is making a spectacular play, taking hits and runs away from the Reds opponents. I just love watching Cozart field his position.
cozart cubs

Daniel Corcino made a very impressive debut for the Reds (and on his 24th birthday too!). He pitched a perfect 9th inning for the Reds, striking out 2 of the 3 batters he faced. Our own Doug Gray wrote about Corcino on his site earlier this year.

Sam LeCure entered the game in the 7th inning with 2 runners on base and 1 out. LeCure struck out Baez, and got Rizzo to ground out to end the inning. It has been a tough year at times for LeCure (3.69 ERA, 4.04 FIP, 1.53 WHIP), but it was nice to see him get the job done tonight.

The Reds faithful (all 37 of them) got FREE PIZZA this evening, as the Reds pitchers were able to strike out 13 batters.


The Reds offense was absolutely terrible, yet again. The Reds were shutout for the 12th time this season. It is just ugly to watch to these guys at the plate.

Not so random thoughts…………….

The Reds very strangely elected to start tonight’s game on time. The rain started pouring as Cueto faced the second batter of the game. The third batter of the game, Anthony Rizzo hit a HR off Cueto (who appeared to have issues gripping the baseball). After the next batter (Castro) got a hit, the game was delayed for 50 minutes. Why on earth would the Reds decide to start this game on time, especially with their ace on the mound? For those who might not be aware, the home team has 100% control on if a game is delayed or not because of rain. Once the game starts, the umpires take over control of delaying the game or not. Maybe the Reds were given poor weather reports, but this certainly looked like a horrible error on the Reds part.

According to Jim Day during the Reds broadcast, Cueto and his teammates were not very happy. Here is what Jim Day said during the top of the 3rd inning:

“I gotta tell you what. There are none too many happy Reds players down here in the dugout right now, and one of them is Johnny Cueto. They are not too happy that they started this game. I know weather is hard to predict, but I’ve never seen Cueto as angry as he was after they called him off the field.”

68 Responses

  1. Kurt Frost

    I see this reds offense and I can’t for the life of me figure out why the mouth breathing contingent of reds fans would want to get rid of their best offensive player.

  2. Thegaffer

    I doubt anyone is out there in redleg nation tonight after this stinker, but I am posting my general apathy/disgust with this team.

  3. I h8walt

    This night demonstrated that the Reds are quite possibly the dumbest organization from top to bottom in MLB. From allowing the game to start with a storm looming to the nightly fundamentally bankrupt display of low baseball IQ, it is clear that this team on a daily basis makes Reds fans the most frustrated fan base in MLB. .

  4. Quiche

    This blows, but at least I can now refocus my energy on Sudoku.

  5. shannon bubnick

    johnny cueto and jay bruce for mike trout cozart and broxton for starlin castro

    • lwblogger2

      Why would the Angels trade Trout? Even for Cueto and Bruce? Trout is the best player in the game. He isn’t going anywhere… Now Cozart and Broxton might get Castro because the Cubs have some good middle IF prospects. Castro is a sub-par SS however. He’d certainly help the offense though.

      • George Mirones

        If “the Cubs have some good middle IF prospects” why would they trade for and older player like Cozart? My thought is that I would convert Castro to LF that way you keep his offense, eliminate his subpar SS defense. Who would the Cubs want from the Reds other than starting pitching or pitching prospects. As far as Broxton is concerned his price tag doesn’t make sense to most other GMs.

      • lwblogger2

        Broxton’s price tag makes more sense as a closer. Of course the Cubs are getting some good work out of their current closer. It isn’t what Broxton has been bringing this year though… Russell is about a year away and Cozart could keep the seat warm for him… You have a valid point though that the Cubs may decide to keep Castro’s bat by making him an OF. He’s athletic enough and has enough arm to play LF or perhaps even CF.

      • lwblogger2

        And I did say that Broxton and Cozart “might” get Castro… It also may be a stretch and Epstein could certainly say “no” to such a deal.

      • tct

        Cozart and Broxton would never get Starlin Castro. Ever. Castro is only 24 years old and is signed for the next 5 years for only 40 something mil. He has a ton of value and I would love for the reds to get him. I don’t think Johnny cueto would even get Castro, seeing as how Cueto only has one year of control left. If you could convince the Cubs that Chapman was an elite starter that they could pay like an elite reliever and extend him, then maybe a deal with Chapman and Castro would be interesting. But I don’t see the Cubs going for that either.

      • Shchi Cossack

        That’s the aspect of WJ’s tenure as GM that concerns me most. I believe there are fewer and fewer baseball operations that WJ can get close to even value in trade negotiations at this point in his career. His repeated signings of aging veteran players to multi-year, overpaid contracts and signing middle relievers to multi-year, overpaid contracts just reenforces that perception. Baseball operations like the Stupid Cubbies have simply passed WJ and left him in their dust.

      • lwblogger2

        @COSSACK – I honestly think that the Phillips signing was Castellini’s call and not Jocketty’s.

      • Shchi Cossack

        Oh, I absolutely agree. I was not even thinking of the Phillips’ extention, but that signing is going to haunt the organization.

  6. ohiojimw

    Well Sunday night I took the high road and spoke of positive possibilities after the split with the Bravos. Just call me PollyAnna Jim.

    Tonight I’ll say that while I hope that JoeyV is back healthy and strong in 2015, JoeyV’s return in either incarnation isn’t going to come close to fixing this offense (and I would prefer the 2010 version of Votto simply because there is no other reliable, repeat reliable, as in consistent, slugger on this team).

    • tct

      Agree with you about Votto, even the 2010 version, not being enough. That’s what I just don’t get about the idea that the reds can’t trade any of their good players for younger guys because that might mess up the 2015 world series run. The only regular player this team is missing right now is Votto. I don’t see a world series contender who is just missing their best hitter right now when I watch the reds. Things have changed since 2010 and 2012. The reds played in possibly the weakest division in baseball in 2010. Now it’s one of the strongest. The Cubs.have a bright future, as do the Pirates, the Cards have good young talent, a smart front office, and a deal with the devil; and the brewers are surprisingly good right now with some legitimate stars in Lucroy and Gomez.

      That’s not to say that I don’t think this team has any talent. They obviously do. I just don’t think that they have enough from top to bottom right now.

      • Kevin J. Brown (@ZebtheRed)

        With all that has happened to them this year, the Reds still have outscored the opposition and if they had a decent record in one run games they’d be right in the mix. Such results wildly fluctuate; the Orioles were terrible in one run games last year and it cost them a playoff berth, but their record as returned to normal this year and they lead the division. I see no reason to think that the Reds can’t do the same; they need some adjustments in the off-season not a fire sale led by trading away one of the best pitchers in baseball for prospects so they can “get younger”.

      • greenmtred

        Agree with you. Fire sales are what a team conducts when it is completely starting over, and discouraging as this season has been, the injuries (and yes, they certainly are both an excuse and an explanation) make evaluating the team’s chances next year difficult. It’s true that, now, they are only without Votto, but that is a big without, and there are other guys either playing with hampering injuries (BP) or having serious off years (JB). And, of course, the starters are down two (Bailey and Cingrani) and the pen doesn’t have Marshall or Simon, so the current team is far from what one might reasonably expect it to be, given just normal luck. The Reds are not ancient, and have good talent at most positions. Address left field, and 2015 looks like a much better year than 2014.

      • tct

        Trading away one starter and possibly one reliever is not a fire sale. Never said which one it should be, so what’s all this ” best pitcher in baseball” stuff? Never said it had to be for prospects either, so make up some new talking points.

        As to the reds run differential, it is plus three. Not exactly a juggernaut, but they should probably be closer to 500. Without a doubt they have been a little unlucky in one run games, but that doesn’t really mean anything for next year. It just means that they should probably have a few more wins than they do this year. And I don’t think it’s all bad luck. The reds have a good rotation, good defense and a poor offense. This leads to low scoring, close games. Those close games are often decided by the bullpen, and the Reds pen has been awful. Managerial decisions can also have an impact on close games, and Price has been disappointing in the strategy department. So, I’m not sure you can chalk that bad one run game record up to just bad luck, though I can’t prove it and could be wrong.

        The point about the divisions was that the Pirates and Cubs are both trending upwards because of their young talent. The Cards should be just as good if not better. Maybe the brewers regress a little, but they are better than we thought at the start of the season. The Reds just being luckier next year will not be enough. They need to be better.

  7. ohiojimw

    Despite the fact that Hamilton had an outstanding AB and worked the walk in the 8th inning to get the tying run to the plate, I think over time to significantly improve his OBP he has to find a way to get hits by bunting or chopping the ball onto the ground etc. This is because the opponents are going to throw him strikes versus risking walking him which more times than not is likely to have the effect of giving up a double.

  8. ohiojimw

    During the 9th inning I found myself wondering whether Corcino was auditioning for the 2015 Reds or for a leading role in the off season trade market.

    • Dale Pearl

      That is going to be interesting. If Axelrod performs well again on Thursday that also adds to the potential of maybe even bundling the two together to get either a top notch AAA bat or a proven MLB quality hitter.

      One thing is very certain. The Reds have an abundance of starting pitching that is starting to look MLB ready both at AA and AAA levels. I am just not sure what the Reds intend to do with Cueto and Latos. Do they stay or do they go? Do we sign one and let the other go for a compensation pick? The all start game next year would lead one to think that Cueto will a back at least for 2015.

      • Mutaman

        What pitcher is “MLB Ready” at the AAA level? Holmberg?

      • Vicferrari

        Have to agree with you, because the brass obviously does, it still amazes me after the beating that Holmberg took by the Cubs they brought him back to avoid some journeyman having to pitch on 3 days rest.
        The fact the journeyman is relpacing Holmberg’s spot shows you exactly who is major league ready.I thought Corcino was thought of as these studs in AA a few years back, you keep looking 2 years out you never stop

  9. Jake

    I’ve given up on this team for this year. Absolutely TERRIBLE offense. Great pitching wasted by the lack of offense, yet again. Looks like I’ll be watching my second favorite team, the Dodgers the rest of the season

  10. pinson343

    I just caught bits of the game on GameDay, which gave an apparently misleading perspective. It described most of the Reds contact outs as line drives (not of the “soft” variety), but from what I’ve read, they weren’t doing anything against Wood.

    The Reds 6th inning was maddening. They were only down 1-0. According to GameDay most of Wood’s pitches weren’t even close to the plate, yet Hamilton flied out on 2-0, Frazer flied out on 3-0, and Phillips naturally grounded out on the first pitch.
    Nine pitches, only 3 strikes, 3 outs.

    Why on earth would Hamilton be swinging on 2-0, leading off an inning 1 run down and getting late in the game ? Trying to tie it up with a HR ?

    Yet Price said after the game that the “Reds were being patient” against Wood.

    • pinson343

      Correction: In the Reds 6th it was 8 pitches, 3 for strikes, 3 outs. Kind of like slow pitch softball.

    • Vicferrari

      I think the single most important thing the Reds can do with the personnell they have is get Billy on base. Some feel he has to bunt or chop the ball more, he needs to get on base at least at a .330 obp an dcan best do this by learning how to take a walk.

  11. pinson343

    Cueto was still pissed off after the game, about starting it in the rain. Then Price flatly contradicted him. I get the feeling that Cueto is the starter who will be traded. He has the most value, and he might not be too happy.

    • lwblogger2

      He may ask to be the one traded.

    • ohiojimw

      I’d chalk Price’s comments up to him toeing the company line because he wants to hang onto his job.

  12. redsfan06

    Even with Votto, the Reds only have half a line-up of good hitters – Votto, Frazier, Mes and Bruce. Hamilton, Cozart and Phillips all bring plus defense with OPS+ below 100. LF is vacant. The Reds had trouble scoring runs at the beginning of the season with Votto. They need to find some offensive help if they are going to make a run in 2015.

    • bigjuxberg

      No doubt about that. Gotta find a way to get Adrian Beltre from the Rangers for next year (and ’16). It won’t be cheap, and you’ll probably have to trade two pitchers to get it done.. but this team needs a veteran man-child in the middle of the order and Beltre would be that man-child.

      • jdx19

        Pretty sure Beltre is way to old to be considered a “man-child.”

      • greenmtred

        Two pitchers for a guy his age? Since the conventional wisdom is that BP’s decline is age-related, ditto Ludwick’s, and that Frazier has peaked or nearly so, it seems too high a price to pay for a 36 year old, unless the pitchers in question are not front-line talent, which is not what you imply.

    • Kevin J. Brown (@ZebtheRed)

      BP’s OPS is league average for a 2B and he’s the best fielding one I have ever seen. I think there is some hope that Billy can improve his BA and OBP. We’ve flogged the Cozart at SS issue enough; finding a stick at SS is not an easy mission. LF is obviously the position that should be addressed but my own feeling is that nothing in the organization will be an upgrade over Ludwick in 2015 so the Reds are going to have to trade for a costly bat.

      • ohiojimw

        This is something we agree on. However, part of what the Reds need to be willing to do though is take a page from the Cards and not be so reticent about breaking into their “core” of position players if need be to make the right deal. I think the real untouchables are Votto and Hamilton. I’m not so sure a lot of folks go along with that.

        The reality is that two years ago this core got the Reds to game 5 of a divisional level series. Since then, it is roughly a .500 team. The bottom line is that a team which is too focused on what it is giving up versus what its getting is likely to never really succeed at making the trade it needs to.

      • Steve Mancuso

        There is no way that Billy Hamilton should be untouchable. We’re all assuming he’s going to keep getting better. But his season at AAA and most of his 2014 season indicate that’s not a given. He’s been great in the OF and that’s worth something. But his hitting has been below average and his speed (at least the SB part of it) hasn’t provided much net value.

        Please read: I’m not saying the Reds should give up on Billy Hamilton or try to trade Billy Hamilton. Only that putting him in a super-elite category of “untouchable” seems a little strong to me. The only Reds player I’d put in that category is Devin Mesoraco.

      • ohiojimw

        Hamilton gets my “offensive mulligan” for his defense. Having him in CF means there are virtually no gaps at GABP and allows the Reds to settle for less defense if need be on the OF corners. That is why I listed him as an untouchable. I would however do as you were saying early on and get him lower in the order until he really (hopefully) comes around offensively.

        Mesoraco was 3rd on my untouchable list but he has been so sporadic that I’m not quite sold on him yet.

        And even though I listed Votto as untouchable, if somebody wanted to take the contract and give fair return, I’d probably do the deal. I’m not ready to dump the contract just to save the money which is why I put him in the untouchable list because right now I suspect nobody is going to do anymore than take the risk on the contract (and even that is doubtful).

  13. Keith

    For the life of me, I can’t figure out why the Reds don’t just throw Lutz in left and Soto at 1st everyday for the next 5 weeks. Can they possibly do worse? Even if they did, what harm could it do? It’d be nice to see what they could do with some everyday run. Ludwick hit .190 in August after hitting .245 in July, and Pena hit .242 in August. What is there to lose?

    • jessecuster44

      because Big Bob thinks this train wreck is still in it.

    • Mister D69

      Left? Throw Lutz in RIGHT Field. Why continue to put Bruce out there? He’s been The Worst Offensive Player on this team. Does he actually need more time to straighten himself out? No. He needs more time in the Arizona Fall League. Give the younguns a chance instead.

      • lwblogger2

        Seriously? Bruce has had a horrible year but you’re way off base here. His career numbers, earlier injury, and his age suggest he isn’t in a decline. This is most likely just a crappy year for him. While there are no guarantees he’ll bounce back next season, it’s likely that he will. As for being the worst offensive player on the team, even if you go strictly on batting average, you don’t have a case. He’s having an awful year but you sound like you just don’t like him.

      • Steve Mancuso

        Bruce has had a terrible season, to be sure. But he isn’t the worst offensive player on the starting team. Zack Cozart clearly is that. Bruce’s run contribution (wRC+) is right around the same for Brandon Phillips and Billy Hamilton. It’s better than Brayan Peña, who is the starting 1B right now. Bruce deserves a huge part of the blame for the bad offense this year, but let’s not exaggerate it or base our opinions on a single stat like batting average.

  14. Drew

    This offseason will be the most important in decades. This team is on the verge of either imploding or exploding. There are some nice pieces on this roster, but there are some key weaknesses. Walt and Bob have to sit down at seasons end and decide what to do. Either Bob steps up to the plate and makes the key moves, or they need to some serious house cleaning and begin a new. Either way that can’t do a small readjust and think things will get better.

    • Shchi Cossack

      The Old Cossack is starting to wonder about the prospects for this current team. The injuries of 2014 trashed any realistic hope weeks ago so now even the most diehard fans acknowledge the inevitable course of the 2014 season. How about the 2015 season? As Redsfan06 pointed out, the Reds have 3 positions going into 2015 that are strong defensively and weak offensively and 1 position that is simply a black hole. That’s simply too many holes in a lineup to compete effectively. Add to that the question marks surrounding the 4 positions of strength and the prospects for 2015 don’t look so rosy any more.

      With so many holes and so many questions going into 2015, I’m not sure even an elite pitching staff and defense can carry this current Reds team. The complete lack of confidence WJ Bryan have demonstrated in the Reds minor league system has been deafening. They have absolutely refused to look at internal options in favor of failed current roster options and contracts. They even refused to give Jumbo a chance, when the bullpen was completely imploding, until the dam was already breached.

      • Drew

        If Votto and Phillips and Frazier and Devin and Bruce play up to their abilities, you figure Hamilton is going to improve that leaves just SS and LF as issues. I think LF can be addressed in the offseason and if so that just leaves SS. I think all this fear of this team falling apart is a bit much long term.

      • George Mirones

        Drew after the continued player calamities of the 2014 season, some of your assessments about next year will fall on deaf ears. The “if” factor is the starting point. Defining the parameters of the players abilities is a hard assumption. Phillps is in decline offensively (age, hand injuries), Bruce has not given any hope, even with the occasional 2 or 3 day spurt, he falls back to less than acceptable. Hamilton should improve but so should have “Stubs”. LF has been a question mark since the 1st day of the 2013 season and SS is the last place I would go to make change that would have long term impact on the daily roster. As many have noted there are a lot of holes to fill or patch and the “black top plant” is closed for the year.
        The winter meetings will be critical for this team as continued lack of “player acquisition” and the slightest failure of the players you have named, will cause fear and panic in the streets.

      • greenmtred

        Indeed. We are panicked because we are pissed off right now. It has not been a good season. However, all teams have questions and weaknesses, and I’m really not willing to start wringing my hands about a 2015 train wreck until this time in 2015.

      • ohiojimw

        By the end of the season, this is a .500 team (if that) since the end of the 2012 season despite having arguably one of the top 5 rotations in all of MLB to go along with one of the better defenses. This alone should make and drive home the need for major improvement of the offense

  15. sultanofswaff

    Really poor at-bats by SuperTodd last night. The swing he took in the 8th inning on a bad pitch sealed the Reds fate. Not a good night.

    If I’m Walt, I know it’s time to leverage the good prospects we have at the lower levels to acquire the pieces we need to win now. To that end, I trade Chapman. The, guys like Travieso/Garrett/Ervin/Howard/Lorenzen should all be made available. As a small market team, you don’t want to rob Peter to pay Paul, but at the same time the window of opportunity for this group is closing fast due to the contract status of our pitchers and the age of Phillips/Votto. Of course, the counter argument is that this group has shown us they don’t deserve to be reinforced, but rather rebuilt. Bob C. won’t have any of that, so it’s probably a moot point.

    • Drew

      While I agree Chapman should be a player we dangle out there for trade, I don’t see it happening. Bob and Walt see Chapman as a ticket seller and hot property. I think either Cueto or Latos gets delt along with some minor league talent to address our LF issues.

      • reaganspad

        How is Chapman doing putting Butts in the seats in August of 2014?

        not that well because he does not play. We need playmakers who want to play.

        trade him and pay Cueto

  16. lwblogger2

    Lots of decisions to make in the offseason. Right now, I’m watching a lot of other teams and switching back and forth from the Reds games.

    I agree with most here that Soto and Lutz need some consistent playing time, if only for the purpose of seeing what you have in them. Soto kind of feels like a AAAA player to me. Lutz, I think could land a utility role at some point but he’s going to have a fairly short career.

  17. User1022

    If the Reds finish below the Cubs, and this toxic clubhouse atmosphere continues (never a good thing when event the announcers can tell the whole team is unhappy down in the dugout), will Price be back next year?

    Remember, Dusty may have “lost” the team, but even then he still won with them. It just seems to me Price is over his head, he may be a smart saber-guy, but (and this is something I notice about a lot about people who are over-reliant on advanced metrics), he doesn’t seem to have a feel for the human element of the game.

    In essence, it’s sort of like comparing someone who can sing pitch perfect and has monitored their voice on a computer to see just how closely they are to hitting exactly the right notes to someone like Freddie Mercury. Sure, the pitch perfect guy may sound pretty good and understand note progressions and whatnot, but Mercury just went out and DID it, he just KNEW how to sing, he didn’t need a computer to tell him if his voice was good enough. The first guy may be a good guy to sit down and discuss music theory with, but you pay money to go see Freddie Mercury ply his craft on a stage.

    I’m thinking Price may be a good “baseball theory” guy, but he might not be the best guy to manage in the game itself.

    • VaRedsFan

      Dusty didn’t have the major injuries nor the disaster of 80% of the bullpen.

    • lwblogger2

      While Price would seem more cerebral, he certainly isn’t a saber-guy. He tends to play his matchups based on small sample sizes. He also doesn’t put much faith in platoon-splits, especially for pitchers. He doesn’t seem to use lineup optimization methods. He has pushed an aggressive, perhaps even over-aggressive agenda on the bases; giving away outs on the bases in the process. He calls for the bunt quite a lot. I think he’s much more a traditional thinker than he is analytically inclined.

      I’m also not sure about the toxic atmosphere you speak of. Yes, the players were clearly upset last night by the decision making but that happens. The team is still playing hard and I don’t see a ton of conflict and problems in the dugout. Apparently there was an altercation between Bruce and Latos but stuff like that happens sometimes when a team is losing. I know, I’ve been there.

      I was hopeful for Price but now I’m not so sure. There have been a lot of decisions he’s made that I shake my head and wonder at and I’m coming from a traditional background with a lot of respect for analytics thrown in. Although I’m not sure about him, I certainly am not willing to judge him based on this season. All teams have injuries but the Reds have been hit hard to their key players and their lack of depth was exposed. Even as a skeptic, I’d give Price a chance until at least the break next year to see what he can do with a healthy team.

      I disagree about those in SABR not understanding the human element. While some of my more analytically inclined don’t seem to get the human element, the vast majority of us have played the game, some of us at a pretty high level. Most SABR folks get the human element. The perception that we don’t understand the soul of the game is faulty.

      • George Mirones

        “The perception that we don’t understand the soul of the game is faulty.”
        There are times when sound, factual, logic strikes fear into those who just want to feel good about what is going on and just don’t get the nuances that modern day metrics has. To me a prime example of this failing to acknowledges SABR is that MLB does not list the concepts in the statistics section of the MLB website. The reasoning is that the majority of fans “don’t get it” so why cause waves. The opinion that only self appointed “elite” use SABR is derived by the lack of understanding of new terms and that “its not the way it has been done”. The re-education of baseball fans will take place when this and the next age cohort passes.

    • tct

      First, can you give an example of this human element that Price doesn’t understand. Second, Price has made so many decisions this year that go against sabermetric principles so you can’t say that price is failing because he uses sabermetrics. Any time someone who doesn’t like or understand the new age stats wants to criticize people who use these stats, they always bring up this “human element.” Yes, it is human beings who play baseball and not robots. So what? We are human beings who watch the game too, and sometimes our eyes and internal biases can deceive us. Sabermetrics let’s us measure player production because, as human beings, it would be next to impossible to tell the difference between a 400 obp guy and a 350 obp over the course of a 6 month season without actually keeping track of it. The 400 guy would get on base an extra time or two per week on average, and that’s such a small difference over such a long time that you probably couldn’t notice it if nobody measured it.

      • Kevin J. Brown (@ZebtheRed)

        Continuing to bat Mesoraco cleanup because conventional sabermetric guys think that where a player bats shouldn’t effect his statistics would be an example.

  18. Shchi Cossack

    Per Ken Rosenthalï‚™via twitter…

    #Reds’ Latos, Leake went on revocable waivers yesterday. Both likely to be claimed, neither figures to be traded.

  19. i71_Exile

    Does anyone know the Reds team record for the number of games that they’ve been shut out in a season? My search-fu is failing me.

    • lwblogger2

      They were shut out 13 times in 2010… I’ll dig further back and see if I can find the record for you.

    • lwblogger2

      Ok… I took the search back to 1945. The Reds were shutout 16 times in 1951 and 1985.

      • George Mirones

        Well at least the Reds still have enough games left to set a new record of some sort.