Let’s recap tonight’s titanic struggle….

FINAL
Los Angeles 14
Cincinnati 6
WP: Kuroda (2-0)
LP: Harang (0-3)
BOX SCORE

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[audio:https://redlegnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/33-Poor-Me-_-Sad-Comedy-Trombone-Wah-Wah-_-Crowd-Jeer-_-In.mp3]

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(Tip of the cap to Barnes.)

38 Responses

  1. mike

    I know we give lip service to the idea of getting on base and how a lot of the Reds hitters are being VERY impatient so far this season but I just noticed some appalling #s

    Votto is having a pretty good season.
    He’s batting .306 with a .883 OPS

    Rolen is having a great season so far
    He’s batting .278 but has turned back the clock showing some good power for a .937 OPS

    they bat 3rd and 5th

    They have a total of 10 RBI 🙁

    the problem is Dusty

  2. pinson343

    Well I’m glad I missed that. I heard a bit on the radio, such as in the top of the 6th when Joe Morgan was in the booth. The Brennamens were praising Owings for his season thus far. And when Owings issued the walk to Kemp, all 3 were annoyed because they said the 2-2 pitch was strike 3, the Reds should have been out of the inning. Joe of course said in his day that pitch was strike 3, the Brennamens said umpires today are afraid to call strike 3, and if you want to speed up the game, that’s the way to do it.

    Anyway it was entertaining to listen to, and I agree with it. If a guy’s got 2 strikes and the pitch is “too close to take,” call the sucker out.

    But I suppose you can’t blame 14 runs on a bad call on 1 pitch.

  3. pinson343

    OK, back to the drawing board. The pitching sucks. A no brainer is to send Ondrusek down and bring Fisher up.

    We need more than that. The Cubs have moved Zambrano out of the starting rotation and he’ll pitch the 8th inning. How about if we do the same with Harang ? If you don’t trust him in the 8th, OK, but move him out of the starting rotation and into the pen. Maloney’s pitching the best at AAA, bring him up as the 5th starter.

  4. mike

    tonight’s game was an embarrassment to the idea of a “titanic struggle “

  5. pinson343

    TDS. And as long as we have Gomes in LF, Cabrera at SS, and Hernandez at C, the D will continue to S. I have no hope that the SS and C situations will change. But there’s hope the LF situation will, at least against RHed pitching.

    Dusty, in the pre-game interview tonite, said Gomes is in there because of his “run production,” but then he hesitated, searching for the right phrase, and finally said “Our best defensive OF is Dickerson, Stubbs, and Bruce.” Obvious, but I’m still surprised he said it.

    Marty asked about Dickerson and Stubbs in the OF at the same time and he gave a flat “Yes, we could do that.” Then the usual stuff about mixing and matching. Anyway, there’s hope.

    And if Dickerson and Stubbs don’t hit enough, how about Nix in a LF platoon ? He plays defense and hits the occasional long ball, better than we’re getting now.

  6. pinson343

    @mike: Good, but a tiny bit is right. The way I felt writing my above 2 posts about improving the pitching and defense, to tell the truth, was that I was talking about band aids, where major surgery is needed. But I don’t know what else to suggest.

  7. pinson343

    Another thing in the Dusty interview: he talked about Masset, saying that he’s messed up because his fast ball is over the plate and “straight, where usually it’s sinking and darting.”

    Naturally, he said Price is working with him on the problem. A number of players have to turn their season around for the Reds to turn it around, and Masset is one of them. I think he can, but the others ….

  8. MikeC

    It’s not Dusty’s fault the starting pitching is struggling. But it amazes me that he continues to do the same thing with them night after night despite the poor results. Harang was sucking again, but the team was still in the game, down 5-4 after 5 innings. Not sure how many pitches he had thrown up to that point, but Dusty sent him back out again. He ended up at 116 pitches and did not get through the inning. The Dodgers scored a bunch of runs and the Reds lost.

    Why does a pitcher have to throw 100+ pitches even if he is struggling? What about trying to save the game instead of letting him blow it?

    Look how many of the Reds starter’s pitching lines are 5.2, 6.1 innings by the starter. He’s not saving the bullpen anyway. The score gets out of hand and the starter is getting overworked in a poor outing. There are plenty of other boxscores showing a starter throwng 80 – 90 pitches when he is not particlarly effective. But their manager is pulling them while there is still a chance to win.

  9. Jason461

    @MikeC: I really don’t have an issue with how Dusty is handling the starters right now. That bullpen has already pitched too many innings. The starters really need to go deeper into games.

  10. Jared

    Wow. Really, what is Ondrusek still doing with the big club? And I suppose yeah, it would have been best to trade Harang last year.

  11. TC

    I just saw the headline from Reds.com “Harang chalks up loss to bad luck”. AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!! (Loud tortuous screaming.)

    Aaron, we make our own luck! Dude, you need to look in the mirror and realize you are no longer a major league caliber pitcher. You’ve become a major drain on this organization. While we appreciate the years you gave to this organization being the ONLY good pitcher on the worse NL pitching staff. You are now the 5th starter in the worst rotation in the majors.

  12. RiverCity Redleg

    @MikeC: that’s exactly right. He is so concerned about getting more innings from his starters, he doesn’t even consider the fact that by pulling his starter before they get in trouble, he can actually be less stressful for the pen and preserve his starters better at the same time.

  13. RiverCity Redleg

    @Jason461: Yeah, it would be nice, but if they ain’t got it, they ain’t got it. By sending the starter out for an inning they can’t complete, it only adds to the stress on the bullpen and is more taxing on their arms. It becomes counterproductive. Plus it adds 20 pitches to the starters’ count for no good reason (if he’s not getting outs).

  14. Greg Dafler

    I agree with MikeC and RCR. The extra inning on a gassed starter is more taxing on the bullpen and the starter. If he would have pulled Bailey and Harang before 110-115 pitches the past two nights, maybe they perform better in their next start. Now their pitching off a poor overall performance in which they were maxed out.

    The bullpen can typically have a little easier time making outs if they start with a fresh inning. Carlos Fisher can go two innings at a time. Bring him up and you have Micah Owings and Fisher who can give you two innings a couple of time a week as a bridge to the late inning relievers.

    If they continue to push the starters to their maximum pitch count, I don’t see the problem resolving itself.

  15. Matt WI

    Yup. Makes sense to me.


    RiverCity Redleg:

    @Jason461: Yeah, it would be nice, but if they ain’t got it, they ain’t got it. By sending the starter out for an inning they can’t complete, it only adds to the stress on the bullpen and is more taxing on their arms. It becomes counterproductive. Plus it adds 20 pitches to the starters’ count for no good reason (if he’s not getting outs).
    Reply

  16. pinson343


    TC:

    I just saw the headline from Reds.com “Harang chalks up loss to bad luck”. AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!! (Loud tortuous screaming.)

    Reply

    Yeh, that amazed me , especially after the way he’s been pitching. That’s an unprofessional statement. He’s in denial.

  17. DK in Erie Pa

    Harang is not missing any bats. His stuff is not good.
    It took him 6 or 7 pitches to strike out the pitcher; Kuroda kept fouling off pitch after pitch. Other than Kuroda, I don’t remember Harang having any swing and misses. If you can’t miss bats in MLB, you are not good enough to be pitching

  18. Sultan of Swaff

    Harang is done. Even when he makes what he considers a good pitch, it doesn’t fool anyone…..and hasn’t for a long time. Skip his next start, bring up Maloney, and move Harang to middle relief. This is a results oriented business…….go ask Zambrano.
    This team needs a shock to the system–whether that means benching veterans w/ no plate discipline, shaking up the rotation, or firing the manager, something has to be done as a matter of principal. Dusty talks about fighting the good fight, well this is where Walt needs to stand up and say enough. We can lose like this with kids who have a future and get better in the process. This team as constructed is doomed to repeat the same failings ad nauseum.
    That said, there’s a good chance we’ll take this series. Mr. Leake will be burnishing his Rookie of the Year credentials tonite against a really crappy Dodgers pitcher.

  19. Sultan of Swaff

    Oh, and nice behind the back flip that would’ve ended the decisive inning, Phillips. Completely unnecessary, unless you thought Ricky Henderson was running. A shining example that looking good comes before getting the job done.

  20. TC

    @Sultan of Swaff: The way the Dodgers hit… He’ll get a real taste of Major League Baseball tonight. He has never seen hitters like these before.

    I expect he’ll get roughed up tonight. But Leake is the only pitcher who is doing everything he can to help himself get wins. He pitches to contact and let’s the defense work, he gets strike outs when he really needs it, and the KID CAN HIT!

  21. Greg Dafler

    I don’t think Harang is done, but I wouldn’t disagree with a temporary move to the bullpen with Maloney getting his next 3-4 starts. They pitched on the same day this week, so give Maloney the Tuesday start next week in Houston.

    Has Harang had any positive results with the new mechanics? He was pitching OK last year, and had a good August before he had the appendectomy. Perhaps he should go back to his old mechanics.

  22. Sultan of Swaff

    Yeah, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with his stuff, per se. This much I know, our pitchers who are struggling (Cueto, Bailey, Harang) have largely depended on two pitches the majority of the time. None of these guys are throwing enough changeups IMO. Could be a scouting/philosophical thing, probably is because they can’t throw strike one, but the net result is that the hitter can guess and be right 50% of the time. They’ll take those odds any day of the week.

  23. Sultan of Swaff

    @TC: If we can’t hit Padilla, I’ll be taking my pitchfork to the San Diego series this weekend.

  24. Travis G.


    Sultan of Swaff:
    This team needs a shock to the system–whether that means benching veterans w/ no plate discipline, shaking up the rotation, or firing the manager, something has to be done as a matter of principal. Dusty talks about fighting the good fight, well this is where Walt needs to stand up and say enough.

    If the Reds break even over the next week, they’ll match the 9-12 record that got Walt’s predecessor fired on April 24, 2008.

  25. francijx

    I don’t think Harang is done. I’m far from an expert and I’d like others’ opinions, but it seems to me that Hernandez is doing a very poor job of calling games. I really want to see more Hanigan.

  26. Steve


    pinson343:

    Dusty, in the pre-game interview tonite, said Gomes is in there because of his “run production,” but then he hesitated, searching for the right phrase, and finally said “Our best defensive OF is Dickerson, Stubbs, and Bruce.” Obvious, but I’m still surprised he said it.

    Reply

    I heard that and had exactly the same reaction. It’s obvious and I was very surprised Baker said it.

    Two seemingly impossible thoughts: first, if we somehow win the game tonight, we’ll win the series. (how can that be?) second, we were only one run down at the end of the fifth inning last night. (!!)

  27. pinson343


    Greg Dafler:

    Has Harang had any positive results with the new mechanics? He was pitching OK last year, and had a good August before he had the appendectomy. Perhaps he should go back to his old mechanics.

    Reply

    He and Price said they fixed a flaw in his mechanics this spring. “Unfixing” it probably wouldn’t help. Last August Harang had improved velocity (93-94 mph) and more movement. Right now the velocity is there, but the movement isn’t. In the past hitters said Harang was tough to hit because of “late movement.” It’s not there now. Don’t know how that gets fixed. Lack of movement is also Masset’s problem right now.

  28. davidmp2

    While four starts isn’t much to go on, Harang has given up 6 homeruns and has lasted on average just 5.3 innings in those starts. That’s just bad.

    Bailey hasn’t pitched more than 5.3 inings in any game, but has thrown on average 110 pitches.

    Harang is done and Bailey needs to get his head on straight. The Reds have plenty of guys in AAA that could match these performances. Whether the Reds bring up Maloney or Chapman or Wood or Lecure or Lehr.

    I’m so sick of seeing Harang pitch. Bailey, I’ll at least hold out some hope.

  29. Bill Lack


    Jason461:

    @MikeC: I really don’t have an issue with how Dusty is handling the starters right now. That bullpen has already pitched too many innings. The starters really need to go deeper into games.

    Reply

    This is true, but I would also assume there are arms at Louisville that could be used later in the year, if need be.

  30. Bill Lack


    Greg Dafler:

    I agree with MikeC and RCR. The extra inning on a gassed starter is more taxing on the bullpen and the starter. If he would have pulled Bailey and Harang before 110-115 pitches the past two nights, maybe they perform better in their next start. Now their pitching off a poor overall performance in which they were maxed out.

    Reply

    In addition to the better mental state they’d be in if they hadn’t REALLY got their butts kicked all over the ballpark in that last inning.

  31. dn4192

    I have been a reds fan forever and have been told I am way to positive and such and need to be a realist. Well as of right now, I am tottally disgusted with this team and it’s management. To sit and watch this team flounder and KNOW the manager is unwilling to make any changes really is driving me crazy. I have lost all respect for our team owner and GM. Neither have any “balls” so to speak and have no problem stealing our money and allowing for this disgrace to continue. 👿

  32. Bill Lack


    pinson343:


    Greg Dafler:

    Has Harang had any positive results with the new mechanics? He was pitching OK last year, and had a good August before he had the appendectomy. Perhaps he should go back to his old mechanics.
    Reply

    He and Price said they fixed a flaw in his mechanics this spring. “Unfixing” it probably wouldn’t help. Last August Harang had improved velocity (93-94 mph) and more movement. Right now the velocity is there, but the movement isn’t. In the past hitters said Harang was tough to hit because of “late movement.” It’s not there now. Don’t know how that gets fixed. Lack of movement is also Masset’s problem right now.

    Reply

    Chris Welsh (in his interview with RN) said they were working on his stride, said by the end of his season last year, he was throwing darts out there (which I assume meant not stride); but whatever they did in ST sure doesn’t seem to be working.

  33. Greg Dafler

    @Bill Lack: His stride…that’s the interview I recall. There was some talk that over the course of the past two seasons, his stride differed from what it was during the 2005-07 seasons.

    So that was my point…whatever they did in ST doesn’t seem to be working. His stride was different in 2009 vs. 2007, but he wasn’t terrible in 2009. Folks are overreacting to his 6 wins when the bigger issue was that Harang lacked run support and defense and that’s why he didn’t get wins. He started off well and finished well last year.

    So they tinker with something in Spring Training…at what point do you say, maybe we tinkered the wrong thing?