Dusty Baker can’t think of any reasons whatsoever that the Reds shouldn’t bring back hitting coach Brook Jacoby and pitching coach Dick Pole in 2009:

“Why not?” he said. “We’ve operated almost the entire year without the team that we expected to have.”

Most susceptible when a team struggles are pitching and hitting coach. In the Reds’ case, that’s pitching coach Dick Pole and hitting Brook Jacoby.

In Pole’s case, the Reds are seventh in the National League in ERA at 4.20. They finished 13th last year at 4.55.

In Jacoby’s case, the Reds are 15th in the NL in batting average at .247. That’s the same average as last year.

“I look at runs more than average,” Baker said. “The Astros are hitting higher than us. But we’ve outscored them.”

The Reds are 11th in runs. They were 12th last year.

Later in the article, Dusty said that losing Willy Taveras to an injury for a while was one of the reasons the Reds have had trouble scoring. One presumes he kept a straight face while saying that.

So, ten straight losing seasons, anyone? Anyone?

33 Responses

  1. wanderinredsfan

    Prediction: The Reds will win one more game than the ’09 season (still a losing season), but Dusty will be happy with the incremental improvement in wins since he has been in charge. Dusty will defend his ‘boys’ till the end. Bob will agree, and sign Dusty and the whole crew for another three years.

  2. Drew Nelson

    I would love to see a Reds beat writer call Dusty on his claim about Willy T. I would love to see a reporter look Dusty in the mug and say “Your kidding right”? I would love to see a reporter say, how can you back up that statment? Or how did the Reds win all of these games while Willy was gone? How did the Reds score all those runs? We need some beatwriters with some guts….

  3. RedinFla

    Preach, forget the candles.
    😡 Get the blow torch ready.

  4. Dan

    As usual, there’s simply no telling if Dusty believes in what he’s saying here, or if he’s just covering for Jacoby and Pole to avoid trashing them in the press. Either one is totally plausible, and I have no idea how you tell which it is.

    Here’s my solution: Ignore Dusty when he speaks. It’s either stupid and stubborn, or meaningless bluster. Either way, I don’t care to hear it or think about it.

  5. WORLD

    Trust me. Bob isn’t going to sign Dusty unless he seriously takes the Reds deep in the playoffs next year. Thre’s a mega amount of discontent inside the organization about Dusty and his style of managing and lineup selection.

    Bob Castellinin is a businessman first and foremost and he was going to have to pay Dusty whether he sat in the dugout or was fishing in Florida. Bob was not going to replace him and pay two managers especially when it was clear that the Reds were undermanned.

    When Dusty’s time on this contract is up, Dusty will no longer be the manager. Bob likes a big name manager but the Dusty Baker experiment did not work.
    There’s other name managers who are available.

  6. mike

    RedinFla: …at a loss for words?

    yes! I tried thinking of a response and sat with my fingers on the keyboard for 5 minutes and came up with nothing


    Later in the article, Dusty said that losing Willy Taveras to an injury for a while was one of the reasons the Reds have had trouble scoring.

    that is the dumbest most ignorant and clueless thing I heard or read in a long while. Even if Dusty did a good job managing all year, that single idea is enough reason to fire him

  7. wanderinredsfan

    @WORLD: “Thre’s a mega amount of discontent inside the organization about Dusty and his style of managing and lineup selection.”

    How do you know this? Do you have inside info. that we are not privy to? If so, then spill the beans, but please cite your references…at least to the point of making it clear that these aren’t just rumors. Rumors won’t get us anywhere closer to believing that this team/franchise will improve.

  8. RedinFla

    @mike:
    Yeah. Getting the blow torch ready for the lineups was the best I could do. 👿

  9. mike

    RedinFla: Yeah. Getting the blow torch ready for the lineups was the best I could do. 👿

    at least I have you guys to help me laugh and vent when the sorry state of our Reds rears it’s ugly head.

    thanks for your work in getting the blow torch(s) ready

    can you picture one of us being the interviewer when Dusty said something along those lines? I think I’d at first play it could and try to let him dig out of the hole he just created. “Dusty have the Reds had more trouble scoring with Stubbs at the top of the order instead of Taveras?”. That would probably confuse him too much so maybe even simpler…”Dusty have the Reds had more trouble scoring than they have most of the season?”. After he blathered some meaningless answer I would then point out that the Reds have scored MORE with Taveras out of the lineup.

  10. RedinFla

    RedinFla: @mike:Yeah. Getting the blow torch ready for the lineups was the best I could do.

    Actually, Preach has the blowtorch but we haven’t heard from him… 😯

  11. mike

    RedinFla: Actually, Preach has the blowtorch but we haven’t heard from him… 😯

    no game today
    that buys us time to find the torch

  12. Y-City Jim

    The Taveras comment is extremely troublesome.

  13. Y-City Jim

    “Hernandez was our RBI man.”

    How does someone in the press corp not say, “What are you smoking, Dusty?”

  14. mike

    Y-City Jim: “Hernandez was our RBI man.”

    How does someone in the press corp not say, “What are you smoking, Dusty?”

    this points out a not so difficult problem to solve.
    Looking at what people like to like batting average with running in scoring position, etc, Hernandez has been one of our best players this year “in the clutch” or as they like to say, our “RBI man”

    the problem is do you think Dusty, or most baseball people for that matter understand that it’s just that Hernandez was hot in those situations for 2 months and would return to his norm?

    In order the Reds top 5 “RBI men” this year
    Gonzo
    Hernandez
    Sutton
    Corky
    EE

    In order our top hitters have been
    Votto
    Gomes
    Balentien
    Dickerson
    Phillips

    curious how there is no over-lap huh?
    you have a runner in scoring position, who do you want AB? A guy from the 1st list (our RBI men) or the guys from the 2nd list (our best hitters)

    I guess that’s a long worded way of saying, Dusty isn’t really wrong…..but he is wrong

  15. RedinFla

    @mike:

    “…isn’t really wrong…but he is wrong.”

    I just don’t see how he could spend all those years in the game and not be better able to evaluate a player’s real worth to the team. Even as much as I get bored with statistics, I can see this.

  16. RedinFla

    Here’s a change of subject: Twins-Tigers rained out tonight, playing a day/night DH tomorrow. 🙄

    (The Twins are my “other” team)

  17. RedinFla

    Y-City Jim: The Taveras comment is extremely troublesome.

    Y-City, Preach is MIA — you have a blow torch?

  18. RedinFla

    For the lineups, from the off-day thread…

    :mrgreen:

  19. wanderinredsfan

    @WORLD:
    Then, please, don’t leave us hanging. How high up does the discontent go? Jocketty? Bob?
    Also, what ‘other name’ managers are available and in the conversation?

  20. earl

    I’d like to know what our record would have been if 200 or more of Taveras at bats to say Gomes, Dickerson, Nix or Stubbs– not anyone new, just play other guys on the roster It might not be much, but I bet we are over .500.

    Add that in and bat Gonzales or some other poor hitting SS in the 8th spot and I bet it could be a 4-10 game turn around.

  21. Y-City Jim

    RedinFla:
    Y-City, Preach is MIA — you have a blow torch?

    Sure but will it be enough?

  22. CarolinaReds

    Sounds like it’s just “Dusty being Dusty” again 😉

  23. mike

    earl: I’d like to know what our record would have been if 200 or more of Taveras at bats to say Gomes, Dickerson, Nix or Stubbs– not anyone new, just play other guys on the roster It might not be much, but I bet we are over .500.

    well that’s not exactly fair errr something

    Even if Dusty had a clue (which he doesn’t) he would have had to pretty much choose Dickerson as the starting CFer (not a bad choice really) for at least 1/2 to 3/4 of the games.

    so if you could calculate the difference in runs from the leadoff spot with 3/4 Dickerson and 1/4 Stubbs vs the worst hitter in baseball you would know you’re answer

    of course the problem is that Gonzo was actually hitting WORSE than Taveras and he left around the same time Taveras “got hurt” (read Dusty was told by those who know better stop playing him or you’re fired). It’s tough to bench your lover.

    but honestly I don’t think you could calculate it….in general you could but I’m not sure it would apply to this years Reds. Why?
    When Taveras was batting leadoff EVERY SINGLE @#$%@#$% DAY the Reds lost a lot of games by 1. The Reds pitching has been good this year. I think despite the Reds offense sucking in general (read: among the worst in baseball) that the the Reds were closer than that might indicate. In other words my theory is that the change of Stubbs (or Dickerson) for Taveras and Janish for Gonzo has had a bigger impact in the W-L column than it would for most teams. The Reds have lost a lot of close games and most are due to Dusty’s lame lineups.

    Where is “Mr. Redlegs” when you need him…..he is the only person I know to defend Taveras. Come on Mr Redlegs…explain to use your wisdom of how replacement player is a meaningless idea.

    Honestly this to me is 100% like last year. I don’t want to blame Patterson or Taveras or Gonzo. The problem is with the positions those players have been put in. That blame goes to Dusty.

    The Reds are 8 games under .500. I think they could be at .500 with Dickerson/Stubbs instead of Taveras and Janish/Sutton instead of Gonzo

  24. doktor

    in response to Earl’s question, instead of Taveras, I would think the replacements would have been a platoon of Hairston/Dickerson in CF. I would think thier stats could be extrapolated in place of WT and come up with WAWT (Wins Above Willy Taveras).

  25. per14

    I’ve said this before, but Dusty’s problem is that he has a perception of how a team should go, a perception of what Taveras should do, a perception of what Hernandez should do, and he simply CANNOT distinguish between his perception and reality. He tries to cram his perceptions into reality, and it just doesn’t work. That’s why he keeps batting center fielders lead-off and shortstops second and catchers eighth: “That’s just how it’s supposed to be!!! And I”m going to keep doing it until the reality lives up to my perceptions!!!”

  26. Glenn

    Having Willy Taveras on this team was one of the reasons the Reds had trouble scoring runs!

  27. Matt WI

    Y-City Jim: Sure but will it be enough?

    We might need to go weapons grade on this assignment. Blow torches might not phase Dusty’s intrepid lineup selection.

  28. preach

    @mike:

    Here I am. I was just out at Harbor Freight pricing torches. I didn’t want to waste good money on this garbage. That’s Bob’s department….

  29. preach

    @RedinFla:

    I also saw a copy of “Baseball for Dummies” and picked up a copy for our manager. When I saw that the titles of some of the chapters included: “Prevent baseclogging” “Average doesn’t matter”, “OBP, what is it? I don’t know.” and “Setting lineups by position” I flipped back to the front cover and saw that the title actually was “Baseball BY Dummies”. I won’t tell you who wrote it, but let’s just say that the author played with Hank Aaron, and the original manuscript is at Great American Ball Park….

  30. GregD

    I would think Pole could be on the hook given the team’s relative consistency in the rotation the past two seasons. Last year was the first time in a long time that such a high % of team starts went to pitchers #1-4. On top of that, Fogg and Belisle had career worst years here last year.