Game Thread: Giants at Reds — 2009.08.20 Chad Dotson 08/20/2009 103 I’ll be in court during this game. Thank goodness. Discuss it here, if you can stomach the carnage. Share this:TweetPocket 103 Responses GregD 08/20/2009 Dickerson RF Lineup Guess the run support for Harang: Stubbs CF Votto 1B Phillips 2B Nix LF Rosales 3B Janish SS Tatum C Harang P I’ll put the over/under at 2.5 GregD 08/20/2009 Giants lineup Velez 2B Uribe SS Schierholtz RF Sandoval 3B Winn LF Garko 1B Rowand CF Whiteside C Cain P Kyle 08/20/2009 The Reds could have a great defense next year if they went with Janish and Nix/Dickerson (and taught Dickerson to play corner OF). Not saying I want this, but at least they would do something well. GregD 08/20/2009 More on Votto from John Fay Joey Votto’s blurred vision was caused by a “retinal migrane.” … Votto had never had one before. … He was not given medication. Votto doesn’t think it was related to the stress issues that put him on the disabled list for 21 games but he didn’t rule it out. “No, I don’t think so,” he said. “The doctor said it could be stress related. It’s been kind of stressful lately with all the losing. It possibly could be. I’m not going to say yes or no on that one. It was a really odd occurrence. I hope it doesn’t happen again.” Chad Dotson 08/20/2009 That’s potentially great news about Votto. I’m relieved. Matt Steele 08/20/2009 I hope this means he’ll relax a little bit more and not try to put too much pressure on himself. I’m taking the under and going with two runs for Harang RC 08/20/2009 They usually score for Arroyo, but after last night… is it possible for the Reds to score a *negative* number of runs for Harang? If so, I predict today’s final score is 3 to -2. GRF 08/20/2009 That is a terrifying lineup, but still better than one containg Taveras and at least it lets us look at our future a little bit (I would really prefer Gomes or Balentien play over Nix to see if either can be an outfield answer next season). I am hoping Janish will show he can hit just enought to justify playing his glove at SS. If not, then hopefully one of the outfielders will step forward and we can use the available money on the SS. I do not think we are going to have the money for an outside addition at both. CeeKeR 08/20/2009 With some of the complaints about no offense that Harang has voiced in the past, what do you think he thought when he saw the lineup Dusty was going to trot out there to back Harang up?! nick in va 08/20/2009 The fact that Willy is not batting leadoff makes me smile. Glenn 08/20/2009 I’m very familiar with what they’re talkiing about. The migrane’s in your head but the symptoms start in your eye. With me its always on the left side. If you lay down gets some ice on your head quickly it will usually go away without turning into a full blown migrane headache. I’m suprised they didn’t give him any meds if they knew what it was. CeeKeR 08/20/2009 According to Yahoo!, Harang has received ZERO runs of support seven different times already this season. No wonder he’s the league leader in losses…and frustrated with the team. nick in va 08/20/2009 Good start by Harang. The bad part is that I’m sure it will be an equally good start by Cain. preach 08/20/2009 “I predict todayÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s final score is 3 to -2.” That’s the kind of comment that makes me laugh and cry at the same time. Brilliant. nick in va 08/20/2009 Dickerson walks. nick in va 08/20/2009 From ESPN, in 244 ABs Dickerson has walked 36 times. In 395 ABs Willy has walked 18 times. CeeKeR 08/20/2009 Stubbs: 3 Ks in 5 at bats. I hope it isn’t because he’s trying too hard to hit a 5-run homerun… nick in va 08/20/2009 Stubbs strikes out. Dickerson stole 2nd on the previous pitch. CeeKeR 08/20/2009 Dickerson steals when it matters, something that Taveras never seems to do. CeeKeR 08/20/2009 Votto’s batting .500 (4 for 8) of Cain coming into today’s game. That’s impressive. Kyle 08/20/2009 Dickerson has been pretty decent this season. If the Reds could find a SS, I wouldn’t mind an outfield of: RF-Bruce, CF- Stubbs/Dickerson, LF- Dickerson/?(Gomes or Nix possibly). Pinch Runner- Willy T CeeKeR 08/20/2009 That should read 4 for 8… Kyle 08/20/2009 They are making Cain work at least. CeeKeR 08/20/2009 They are making Cain work at least, As Team BP comes up hacking at the first pitch… CeeKeR 08/20/2009 Nice inning by Harang, two Ks RC 08/20/2009 Man, I hope we can get Craig “The Tater” Tatum up with men on base this inning… Jimmy 08/20/2009 Come on Stubbs. Show toothpick why you should have been up earlier for WT. Kyle 08/20/2009 Reds have no runs and 3 hits over their last 16 innings (coming up to bat in bottom of the third). Kyle 08/20/2009 That was incorrect- 0 runs and 3 hits over the 15 innings preceding the bottom of the 2nd (where they got 2 hits). CeeKeR 08/20/2009 So close Stubbs… nick in va 08/20/2009 Sutton is batting for BP. Any ideas why? Thom doesn’t seem to know. CeeKeR 08/20/2009 Phillips taken out of the game?! CeeKeR 08/20/2009 Sutton pops out. TOS. Glenn 08/20/2009 What’s going on with Phillips? CeeKeR 08/20/2009 and the mighty Giants strike first on a wild pitch… Kyle 08/20/2009 The wild pitch is on Harang, but its hard not to feel for him. Has to be frustrating to be pitching so well and get absolutely nothing. Travis G. 08/20/2009 From the Associated Press: Reds second baseman Brandon Phillips has left the game against San Francisco because of a sore left wrist. Phillips came out Thursday in the middle of the third inning. Phillips was hit on that wrist by a pitch from Washington’s J.D. Martin last Saturday. Steve 08/20/2009 It is impossible to listen to the Brenamann duo. Travis G. 08/20/2009 I’m actually enjoying the scorekeeping tutorial by Welsh and Kelch on FSN. I like listening to them broadcast together. renbutler 08/20/2009 Reds score! Reds score! Holy cow! nick in va 08/20/2009 Home run for Nix. The game isn’t over at 1-0 after all. Kyle 08/20/2009 The Reds end the scoreless inning streak at 19. CeeKeR 08/20/2009 The Reds are awesome. CeeKeR 08/20/2009 Think Harang wants to come out of the game now so he doesn’t get another loss? He has got to figure that the Reds chances of scoring another run today are pretty low… Kyle 08/20/2009 Unfortunately for him, the pitcher’s spot is up next inning so it will take him faking an injury to get taken out of the game regardless of whether or not he is struggling. Kyle 08/20/2009 Wow, three balls put in play on the first pitch. Kyle 08/20/2009 He is now at 90 pitches. Dusty Baker isn’t sending anyone to warm up for another 20 I’m sure. Jimmy 08/20/2009 Harang and Arroyo pitching well. My theory is they despartely want off Dusty’s team for next year. Kyle 08/20/2009 I stand corrected. CeeKeR 08/20/2009 Harang out of the game, amazingly enough. CeeKeR 08/20/2009 A leadoff hitter that gets on base… I can see what Dickerson wasn’t the leadoff hitter until Taveras went down, all he does is clog the bases. CeeKeR 08/20/2009 …and Arroyo now pinch runs for Barker. This team is super awesome. nick in va 08/20/2009 Stubbs needs to take the bat off his shoulder. GregD 08/20/2009 Stubbs has been called out looking 4 times so far, hasn’t he? That won’t sit well with Baker. He got on Votto pretty good last spring for the same thing. Though, I’ll admit in last night’s game they were both bad calls. I don’t know how close today’s called strike-3 has been. Kyle 08/20/2009 5 K’s in 8 ABs is not a good start. Kyle 08/20/2009 Why would you not walk Votto to pitch to Sutton? CeeKeR 08/20/2009 Maybe Stubbs should just tell Baker he’s letting his bat marinate a little before he swings it. Travis G. 08/20/2009 VOTTO STINKS!!1! CeeKeR 08/20/2009 Votto hasn’t been hitting the ball nearly as well lately…of course, NO ONE on the Reds has been but still. I don’t think there’s anyone in the Reds lineup that a decent pitcher needs to pitch around. RC 08/20/2009 Arroyo pinchrunning. That’s wicked awesome! That’s thinking outside the box. If by the box, you mean “sanity”. Shine on, you crazy diamond… preach 08/20/2009 I dunno. I’m not so adamant against using pitchers to pinch run. They are athletes and it’s the only thing he could possibly do today to help the team. Of course if he twists an ankle sliding into a bag, then I’m a complete idiot. RC 08/20/2009 I’m just sad that Berry didn’t get the chance to wave him around. Travis G. 08/20/2009 RT @johnfayman The 8 position players the #Reds have the field make $3,235,000. The least possible in $3,200,000 because of the $400,000 MLB minimum. GRF 08/20/2009 I won’t pretend I get all the math, or that I necessarily agree with the methodology, but the BP folks posted an article today that rates the Reds front office dead last this season in “bang for the buck” from their spending: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9418 Again, I am not sure I agree with the reasoning, but being in a group with the Mets, Pirates, Royals and Astros causes some concern. RC 08/20/2009 Fay mentioned that “a scout” told him that Gomes might draw some interest were he dangled for a trade right about now. But he’s the funnest Red of all… GRF 08/20/2009 Never thought I would say this, but I wish Weathers was here right now… preach 08/20/2009 How can I become a third base coach? Heck, with this organization how can I sign up to be a manager or GM?: -Eat enough JTM Pork Ribs? -Look both ways for motorcycles? -Enter the contest at Skyline Chilli? -Order more LaRosa’s? -Talk like I’m a Cowboy? I think I could immediately improve this team. Maybe I need to run for office. “Want to make sure you never see Taveras in a Reds uni again? Vote Preach.” BigRedMike 08/20/2009 I noticed that the Reds are last in MLB in runs scored. Not helping that much today. preach 08/20/2009 “Fay mentioned that Ã¢â‚¬Å“a scoutÃ¢â‚¬Â told him that Gomes might draw some interest were he dangled for a trade right about now.” Heck, then think about what McDonald could be worth, since Gomes was behind him…. Mike 08/20/2009 It can’t be helping our pitching staff putting them in all these stressful innings. RC 08/20/2009 Preach, I’d stay away from the JTM stuff – it’ll kill you faster than slamming your Harley into the side of a car. GRF 08/20/2009 If I am an AL team, I would definitely be considering Gomes for a DH/extra outfielder spot next year. His defense may be somewhat brutal, but as a right handed DH/ backup outfielder and first baseman (didn’t he play some first before we got him?) I think he could have some real value. Andy 08/20/2009 Question: Why is Chris Negron’s name on the bench for the Reds according to CBSSportsline gamecast? He is the Class A SS we got from Boston, and he was struggling there. Did we really call him up? GRF 08/20/2009 Just when I say something nice about Gomes… Dickerson wins it right here. GRF 08/20/2009 Or not. Steve 08/20/2009 Another appearance for Cordero with a tied game. Hopefully better than past episodes. RC 08/20/2009 As Fay also mentions, Gomes would have to get through waivers, and at his salary, I can’t believe someone wouldn’t claim him. PS – Yippee!!! Bonus baseball! BigRedMike 08/20/2009 STUBBBSSSSS!!!! ty 08/20/2009 drew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! David 08/20/2009 Let’s see Willy T do that!!! Matt Steele 08/20/2009 whoo! Beroader 08/20/2009 I hope this is a confidence boost for him, and a sign of more to come. Matt Steele 08/20/2009 From Rob Neyer http://myespn.go.com/blogs/sweetspot/0-4-194/The-Reds–new-center-fielder.html On Stubbs GRF 08/20/2009 Nice to way end a ballgame. Congrats Drew, hope that is the first of many. RC 08/20/2009 Anybody want to start the odds on whether Stubbs is in the starting lineup tomorrow night? GRF 08/20/2009 Fine centerfielder??? I respectfully suggest Mr. Neyer has not actually seen Taveras play much lately. RiverCity Redleg 08/20/2009 What can you say about Stubbs, other than “He’s no Willy Taveras”! preach 08/20/2009 ..or seen Willie play at all. He has always been at this level defensively. Nothing new or different. Steve Price 08/20/2009 Neyer also said pretty much what some have said all along. Stubbs is essentially the same player as Taveras for $3.6 million less next year…and who’s going to pay for Taveras’s contract if not the Reds? I do think he gave him too much credit for CF; even ESPN used Taveras as a positive example on how to play the fence a few weeks back; that is, before WIlly ran into the one with his face last week Steve Price 08/20/2009 Oh…why did Harang come out with the game 1-1? Doesn’t he need to learn how to work through tough games? He’d only thrown 90 pitches. Matt Steele 08/20/2009 Willy’s UZR ratings are pretty decent this year and overall rate pretty well for his career. I’m not trying to really say that Willy is a good defensive CF but there are some statistics available to back it up This year – 6.9 UZR rating (4th in MLB among qualified players) for his career 27.2 Steve 08/20/2009 We might be able to trade Willy T in the off season. At least superficially he has some qualities a team might be looking for. Can’t imagine we keep him on the team in a scenario where he doesn’t play regularly. Way to go, Drew! David 08/20/2009 Matt – This is the classic example of why stats don’t tell the whole picture. You have to use your eyes as well. The stats say Willy is an above average to good defensive centerfielder. Anybody who has watched him in the outfield knows otherwise. I think he is given a pass because if fast Willy couldn’t get there then who could? Ummm… anybody who knows how to break on a deep fly. GRF 08/20/2009 I will admit I am not fully comfortable with all the various new defensive stats. I remember when we acquired Willie, he looked pretty good according to zone ratings (with a drop off in Houston that some attributed to the hill out there) and not so good according to others. It may be his overall play is good enough to pull his averages up, but with enough absolutely boneheaded mistakes that it colors our perecption of him. In any case, I will take Dickerson over him defensively, and from everything I have read/heard Stubbs as well. GregD 08/20/2009 Congrats to Drew Stubbs! That is awesome!! What a great bit a news to see after being in a meeting the past hour. RC 08/20/2009 And now, if you have time, troop on over the Hal McCoy’s blog again. He’s put up a new post this afternoon entitled So what is “The Grand Plan?” Nothing new per se, but as well summed up as I’ve seen. http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/index.html GregD 08/20/2009 Yeah, I agree about any of the defensive stats. UZR seems to be the current favorite, but there is no way in **** that Taveras is even top 4 in the NL, let alone all of baseball. He runs bad routes, get bad breaks, plays too shallow and can’t get back on deep fly balls. And Neyer says what? In fairness to Taveras, he’s never played quite this poorly before, and may have some decent baseball — the sort of marginally useful baseball he once played with the Astros and the Rockies — left in him. The problem isn’t that Taveras isn’t a good baseball player (which is true). Um, just last year. He’s been this bad for 1 & 2/3 baseball seasons. I hope another GM thinks that he has some decent baseball left in him. Given that no GM thought that last offseason, I hold out no hope that anyone in baseball changed their mind this year. GregD 08/20/2009 One more note – Stubbs was responsible for half the offense (hits) last night and half the offense (runs) today. RC 08/20/2009 He might well have also been responsible for 5-10% of the attendance, maybe? preach 08/20/2009 So, Taveras needs to improve to become ‘marginally useful’? I don’t understand most defensive metrics. It was painfully clear to anyone who watched Willie that he gets bad breaks on balls and takes strange routes. It was clear that Corey Patterson was the better defender, had more power, and just slightly less speed. The only real thing about Taveras I liked a lot was that he almost always ran when he did get on base. He has even lost his willingness to do that. C’mon guys, you don’t need stats when it is so in your face obvious. He has issues in the field. I’m sure if you look back at the posts when this was announced you will see that those of us who watched him a great deal, myself included, said this. How in the heck does a major league team miss it like that? Glenn 08/20/2009 unfortunately unless the Reds can get someone to take Taveras in a trade, WT will be back next year. There’s no way they’ll eat his salary. RiverCity Redleg 08/20/2009 They should eat his salary with a big ol side helping of crow! pinson343 08/20/2009 Congratulations, Drew Stubbs !!! His defense is rated so high that if he can get on base at a reasonable rate (.350 would be nice) and create some havoc then it would be a HUGE upgrade in CF. An occasional walkoff HR doesn’t hurt either. I’ve spoken against playing Nix much for the rest of the season but I’m glad he played today. A second consecutive 1-0 loss would have been brutal (and on a wild pitch strike 3). The 7th thru 9th innings were scary, I see from GameDay. I complain about Dusty when I don’t like his late inning use of pitchers so I’ll say how today he was on the mark. Taking Harang out after 7 (rather than letting him get in trouble in the 8th) was a good move. Bringing in Herrera in the 9th worked out, don’t know if I would have had the nerve to do that.