Should the Reds be buyers or sellers? Use this thread to discuss that question, the stories linked below, or anything you want. It’s off-day Open Thread time!

A couple of items of interest:

–Jay Bruce will be out 6-8 weeks, according to the Reds. Bruce’s MRI yesterday showed no damage to the tendons or ligaments in his right wrist, so I guess it isn’t as bad as it could have been. Good news.

–TSN ranked all the major league ballparks, and they have Great American Ballpark ranked 25th. No way. I guess I need to go through all the others, but I’ve always felt that GAB was way underrated. I think it’s a great park, frankly. Not the best, but I’m not sure why people are so down on it.

So, what are your thoughts?

74 Responses

  1. Nathan

    I give them a couple more series to make the decision to be buyers or sellers.

    As for Jay Bruce…that stinks, but I would have been more upset about it if he was hitting better. Maybe some time off will do him good?

    GABP…I’m not down on GABP, but there is nothing special or particularly appealing about it either. It’s a clean and sharp looking ballpark, but lacks really any kind of personality that a lot of the other newer parks (not to mention the older parks that are left) have. Not to mention that most seats behind home plate are basically off-limits to the regular fans. A buddy of mine (who is a Braves fan, ugh) pointed out that you can go Pittsburgh or Detroit for instance and get a pretty decent seat a couple of dozen or so rows behind the plate for a pretty decent price.

    Officially my first comment of more then like 5 words. 😀

  2. Travis G.

    I love the location of GABP for purely selfish reasons, because I can walk there in 20 minutes from my home in Newport, but it really should have gone at Broadway Commons. Old discussion topic, I know, but still; an opportunity was missed. My only real complaint about GABP is that there’s way too much unadorned concrete where there might have been brick. You can tell ownership cut a lot of corners.

    Also, I think the Reds should be both buyers and sellers. I would move one of Harang or Arroyo and look to buy low on a young-ish outfielder like Alexis Rios. A shortstop would be great instead, but they’re a lot harder to find via trade.

  3. Dan

    Got to be sellers (or stand-patters) now I would think. We’re in 5th place w/ a losing record and a VERY negative run differential. Let’s be realistic.

  4. Y-City Jim

    Minimum sellers at the most. If there is a great deal out there, jump on it but WJ has yet to demonstrate to me that he would know a great deal if he saw one.

  5. Andy

    Unless you can get a real haul for Harang, I think we should try and sell of some small pieces to see what we can get in return. There aren’t a lot of sellers so I think the value of D**** W******* and Arthur Rhodes is higher than it would be in normal years.

    I don’t want to sell the future for one year, of “we MIGHT make the playoffs.” If we were close to contending for the Series I would say go for it, but even with Pujols added to the lineup, we aren’t a legitimate contender this year.

  6. GregD

    He has to make moves with 2010 in mind. So, in the sense that you trade for 2.5 months of someone, the Reds shouldn’t be buyers. Still, I could foresee a trade for someone like Halladay, who’s contract goes through 2010.

    The front office has an idea of what the 2010 team will look like. Who they want to carryover from their current roster, who may fill in the gaps from the minors, and who (or what position) they may need to acquire. They also should know who all the free agents are this offseason. If there isn’t much desirable via free agency, and the goal would be to make a trade this offseason, your best shot to acquire that player may be July.

  7. GregD

    I was looking at some of the Blue Jays other big contracts. No wonder they need to dump money and are especially looking to move outfielders:

    Vernon Wells (30, CF)
    – 7 yr extension prior to the 2007 season that began in 2008
    – full no trade clause
    – 2010: $21M; 2011: $23M; 2012-14: $21M/yr
    – can opt out after the 2011 season

    Wow – that’s Manny money. No wonder they want to move his contract. He’s only hitting a little better than the 2009 Jerry Hairston so far this season.

    Alex Rios (28, RF/backup CF)
    – 7 yr deal prior to the 2008 season
    – full no trade clause in 08-09; limited NTC other years
    – 2010: $9.7M; 2011-12: $12M; 2013-14: $12.5M/yr
    – 2015 club option for $13.5M w/$1M buyout

    His 2009 offensive numbers are nearly identical to Wells.

  8. GRF

    Agree with Andy, relief pitching is an in demand area and one place we have some potential depth. If we can move it for bats that might be “ready” in a year or two, I think that would make sense. Frankly, I would give up quite a bit for a SS prospect who could be in the mix next year. I just do not believe anyone on the current roster can productively handle the spot next season.

  9. Travis G.

    Some interesting data on Rios:

    His .350 wOBA from last year has become a .325 wOBA this year simply due to BABIP variance, where his .335 batting average on balls in play has dropped to .288 this year. His career BABIP? .328. This “slump” just isn’t anything to be concerned about. He has 32 extra base hits, he’s 13 for 16 in stolen bases, his contact rate is exactly the same as always… there’s just no offensive decline here. He’s the exact same above average hitter he was the last two years.

    ZIPS projects a .355 wOBA going forward from Rios, which sounds about right for a 28-year-old with his skills. That makes him something like +15 runs per year offensively, and he’s a terrific defensive outfielder to boot, easily capable of playing center or being a gold glove candidate in right.

    Rios is a +3.5 to +4.5 win player in the prime of his career, and he’s due to make just under $60 million for the next five years. This is a really good contract for the Jays. Rios is an outstanding player being paid less than his market value. He’s as far from being a Wells-like albatross as you could possibly get.

    No idea if Toronto is looking to get rid of his contract, but if Castellini is serious about boosting payroll for the right player, you could certainly do a lot worse than Rios. (He might even be had for cheap.) He could play RF until Bruce comes back and then take over CF duties if, say, Taveras needed a day off to marinate.

  10. David

    With the depth the Reds have at certain places, the Reds can trade a few pieces and still be fine. For example, EdE at 3rd is followed by Rosales, Franciso, and Soto. I’d think everyone would agree that these guys have their flaws; however, we could move any one of these guys and still have plenty of depth. The same can be said about LF. With Heisey, Frazier, Dorn, the farm system has plenty of LFs, especially if Votto is slotted over if/when Alonso comes up.

    Everyone wants pitching right now, and it may be a great time to cut ties with Harang and Arroyo (if anyone would take him given his salary/production).

    There is nothing in the system that projects well at SS in my opinion. That’s where I’d focus my attention.

    As an aside, on moving BP to SS, do you think the Reds will do it once they lock him into his next contract? A SS with BP’s numbers would cost a lot more than a 2B on the open market. Maybe the Reds are intentionally lowering BP’s value. Thoughts?

  11. Brian

    I really doubt they are playing BP and keeping him at 2B to diminish his value. I think towards the end of last year he made a comment that he didn’t want to move back to SS and that he likes the idea of being a 2B so I am not sure he would even want to move back to SS.

    I think the most logical thing is the Reds standing pat and making some additions by subtraction for example – trading weathers for a SS prospect because the Reds have a strong bullpen in the majors and at AAA. I could also see them moving Rhodes because next year you have Hererra and then you get Bray back from injury so the Reds have lefties in house to replace him.

    I don’t see the Reds doing anything major inless they come out of the break on fire.

  12. Brian

    and there won’t be a fire sell so the Reds won’t be major sellers either. To many young players under control for the Reds to be major seller aside from Weathers and maybe Rhodes i don’t see anything happening.

  13. kohawk10s

    you stand pat. load all the “chips” up for 2010 and beyond. do not dump starting pitching, do not bring up prospects not ready to play at major league level. DO emphasize teaching, instruction, fundamentals at ALL levels of the organization. Even if some coaches/managers need to be moved out…..

  14. Mark the Red

    GABP is an underrated ballpark, but given that the Reds have never won there the atmosphere is not even close to other stadiums.

    Hard as it is to admit, you can’t be in a great ballpark when you have more fans for the visiting team (when its cubs, cards, bosox, yanks) than the home team.

    Aesthetically it is fine, and it has nice wide concourses and easy access to vending and bathrooms. I have been to 21 major league stadiums (some cities count twice, like atlanta with the old Fulton Co stadium and the new Ted, Cincy at Riverfront now GABP, etc) and I can honestly say the stadium itself should be top half, but given the occupant and resulting lethargy, the ranking sounds about right…

  15. Sultan of Swaff

    Good point, GregD. There are no unknowns about personnel with this team.
    We know this:
    Dickerson, Bailey, and Hanigan has proven themselves to be capable players.
    Our rotation for next year is set and there are capable relievers ready to stand in the event we trade/shed salary.
    We don’t have a big OF bat in the minors ready to take over until 2011, given the way this organization operates.
    Top flight SS prospects are as rare as elite pitchers, and seldom if ever get traded, even for pitching.

    To that end, I propose to shed Cordero’s salary and use it to get a bat, move Phillips to SS, trade Arroyo for prospects, and bench Taveras/trade him for sunflower seeds. It’s not sexy, but it keeps us heading in the right direction w/o selling the farm.

  16. GregD

    I don’t think the Reds are intentionally deflating Phillips value at the cost of fielding the best team this year. I just don’t think they are that progressively thinking.

    I’d really be in favor of Brandon Wood of the Angels organization. He can also play some 3rd so that if Wood produces in the majors and Cozart properly marinates in the minors, you’ve got your SS and 3B for the next 6 years. The Soto’s and Francisco’s can be traded for other positions of need that arise.

    On that, I agree David. Would the Blue Jays take Taveras and some prospects if the Reds took Rios and Halladay’s contracts? If they could move Arroyo in a separate deal (or even in the same deal if Toronto wanted him) the Reds would be significantly better at the major league level next year with a similar payroll as this year.

  17. GregD

    And to contending teams, see if there is any value for Gomes and Nix while they are here on inexpensive 1-yr deals.

    There might even be value for Hairston or Hernandez.

  18. Sultan of Swaff

    Ballpark ranking comments:
    Wrigley is way overrated. I live up here, and it’s brutal weather-wise for a third of the season, sometimes more. Parking is a joke, the food/beer is terrible, and the fans are idiots.
    Miller Park is a gem and does everything Wrigley doesn’t.

    As for GABP (I’ll preface this by saying I’ve been there twice–when it opened and two weeks ago), the problem isn’t inside the park, but the mess outside the park. The whole area is a tangled mess of freeways, parking garages, and visual clutter. Cincy really dropped the ball by forefeiting the riverfront to two huge stadiums, cutting off the city from its lifeblood. Epic fail on that account.

  19. Sultan of Swaff

    On the trade front, we’re well positioned. We’ve got a large inventory of desireable veteran role players who will fit in nicely for a team who needs that last piece of the puzzle. Guys who fit that bill:
    Hairston, Cordero, Gomes, Nix, Weathers, Rhodes, Taveras, Hernandez, Arroyo.
    So in essence, we can do some things to get better w/o jeopardizing the core of the team. Now Walt has to wake up and get to work.
    You gotta think the All-Star game acts like a mid-season general managers meeting. A lot of groundwork being laid, I’m sure.

  20. Jared

    Andy, if we could get ANYTHING AT ALL for Stormy it would be the deal of the century. Felipe Lopez?

  21. Chris Garber

    If you look at the TSN list, you’ll see that GABP is LAST among all “this generation” ballparks, plus all the classics. I think it’s fine, but it’s hard to say it’s better than anywhere else I’ve been (BOS, PIT, BAL, LAD, SAN, SFN, COL, ANA).

    I’m surprised CHA ranked higher, and I suspect NYY will fall out of favor before long. The thing to remember is that GABP probably would’ve ranked in the top 5 as recently as 10 years ago. They’re almost all good, at this point.

  22. Matt Steele

    I think we’ll probably stand pat and maybe make a minor move or two

    as for ball parks, I haven’t been to nearly all of them (probably around 9 or 10 now) but Cincinnati ranks up there. I like it better than most stadiums but I agree that there could be more that could be done to make it even more “unique”

  23. GreatRedLegFan

    I think the management tried to improve the team’s performance for this season means the signing of free agents Taveras and Rhodes, the re-signings of Lincoln, Weathers and Hairston and the trade for Hernandez. Nobody expected the injuries of Votto, Volquez, Encarnacion and Gonzalez and the poor performance of Taveras. Furthermore, everybody (including myself) was expecting an outstanding year from Bruce, Volquez, Cueto and Harang and a full recovery from Gonzalez. Well, nothing of this has happened so far. Perhaps the only acceptable facts are Votto, Philips and the bullpen performances (but Weathers and Lincoln). I’d bet for 2010 counting on full recoveries from Encarnacion and Bruce and the farewells to Arroyo, Harang, Taveras, Hernandez, Gonzalez, Weathers and Lincoln ($45MM in salaries!!!). The starting rotation can be Volquez, Cueto, Bailey and two more from Owings, Lehr, Maloney or Stewart. The bullpen Rhodes, Herrera, Fisher, Masset, Cordero and two more from Burton, Roenicke or Manuel. Position players Hanigan C, Votto 1B, Philips 2B, TBA SS, Encarnacion 3B, Nix/Gomes LF, Dickerson CF and Bruce RF. There is also the possibility to have Heisey and/or Stubbs. Hairston and Rosales can provide depth from the bench. Not sure if there is a ML ready SS for the next season within the organization (Janish, Sutton, Valaika or Cozart). Reds should focus in this position and also evaluate the technical staff. GO REDS!!!

  24. mike

    I have only been to the GABP once and even got the chance to meet some of the people who edit and post on this blog. There were some wonderful things about the GABP from an outsiders perspective.

    Staying in a hotel and being able to walk to the game (and walk home) was great.
    Food (in particular veggie food) was better and easier to find that I could imagine.
    The Reds HOF at the park is hands down the best thing I’ve seen at ANY BALLPARK.

    but in the end, I’ve been to about 20 different parks, not that many of the new ones and the GABP is among the worst. It’s flat out ugly and views of the game aren’t great.
    That said I have been to one of the stadiums they list as worse and I agree. Going to see the Oakland As (because I live in the bay area) is awful! The stadium is the worst thing I could imagine….OK, OK, I use to go see SF Giants games at Candlestick and that was, well, not fun in any way at all. I’ve been to 3 of the 5 listed as worse than the GABP and agree, they are worse.

    and seeing a Giants game in SF is one of the best I could imagine. The view of the game is just amazing. I was a little surprised they only ranked it 5th but I’ve never been to the new Pirates stadium

    still need to get down to SD and see a game down there. hard to believe at one point I could say I had been to every stadium….now there are a whole bunch of new ones I’ve never been to.

  25. Brian

    In my opinion, since I’ve lived in NYC for 5 years now, the new yankee stadium and citi-field are basically clones (or attempts anyway) of Petco Park in San Diego. They tried to make it as open as possible with plenty of walking space.
    Citi-Field is a joke because they don’t really embrace any Mets history, and i’m not talking about Jackie Robinson rotunda, there is literally nothing specific to the Mets in that stadium other than the apple in the outfield. Citi-Field I would imagine will drop out of favor inless they put something in to adress the history of baseball that the Mets have. Also I think the new yankee stadium is a joke it just feels fake and will fall out of favor quickly.

  26. Bogey

    Y-City Jim,

    I thought Jock did a very good deal in both the Griffey and Dunn trades. In both instances he improved the ball club which is what you hope to do in a trade.

    If veteran big salaries can be moved and help the club then do it. Whether it helps this year or next. A game or two improvement here and there and before you know it they will be contending.

  27. Travis G.

    I’ve heard excellent things about Pittsburgh’s park, and would love to go one day. Dodger Stadium might be my favorite, although I haven’t been to many of the new(er) ones.

    The old Tiger Stadium was pretty neat, the way the upper deck hung over the outfield, and Wrigley is like the Ryman Auditorium of baseball. I made last year it to Yankee Stadium, which was a dump but still well worth the expense ($75 to sit in Outer Mongolia). I’d planned to go to Fenway during an August 1994 trip, but that was the week the strike began.

    I agree that Oakland Coliseum sucks, and so did Toronto’s old ballpark (I visited there while the Skydome was being built). The Kingdome was kind of cool, but my memory’s colored by Bo Jackson hitting two homers in the game.

  28. renbutler

    GABP is a fine ballpark, but I agree that it has little character. Sure, it’s nice to have a view of the river, and the smokestacks are cool.

    But I’ve also been to Wrigley and Miller Park, and both beat GABP easily.

    Yes, the Cubs and their fans suck, but the atmosphere and history of Wrigley are just awesome.

    Miller is as good as it gets. What Wrigley has in tradition, Miller has in modernity.

  29. GregD

    I thought Jock did a very good deal in both the Griffey and Dunn trades.

    My complaint about those deals – the Griffey thing only happened because Chicago called Jock at the last minute. Otherwise, the plan was for Griffey to stay until the end of the year. Same with Dunn. If Hudson didn’t get injured after the deadline, Dunn would have finished the last 1.5 months in Cincinnati.

    I find it a little difficult to give Jock credit for trades that fell into his lap.

    And this nugger, according to the Miami Herald:

    With Cameron Maybin hitting .345 at Triple A, the Marlins have made Jeremy Hermida available in trade talks for bullpen help. Besides talking to the Pirates about closer Matt Capps (they didn’t want Hermida), Florida also asked Pittsburgh about reliever John Grabow.

    Unfortunately, something like this probably doesn’t even approach Jock’s radar because Hermida swings a bat left-handed.

  30. GregD

    er-> nugger was supposed to be nugget.

  31. Mark in CC

    If you travel around to visit other stadiums GABP is not a very comfortable place to watch a ballgame, I actually found Riverfront better. Of the ones I have been to the only one less comfortable is Wrigley but it of course has the mystic going for it.

    By comfort I mean the seats are to small(and I’m just a 200 punder), the rows are too close together (no leg room, really a pain when someone is trying to get down the row) and there are far to few aisles (really a pain at th end of a game). There is not enough room in the food areas as many times the lines cross the whle plaza making it difficult to get through. I was so disappointed in the Stadium after one season at the GABO I droppped my season tickets after 20 years and got them in Dayton.

    Pittsburgh, Cleveland and Milwaukee really did things right and I haven’t been to KC since they renovated but it looks good too.

  32. Mark in CC

    I am tired of being a seller. It is time to be a buyer.

  33. Nathan

    I’ve been to PNC twice (and Wrigley twice also for the record). PNC is very nice. The view of the city during play is awesome and the park itself is quite nice (in one review I read about GABP it said they had it facing the wrong way – facing the city would be pretty sweet). And as I listed in my post above, you can actually sit behind home plate for under $50 (not right behind, but still close enough for a good view).

  34. Bill Lack

    My biggest complaint about GABP is that the seats sure seem to be more narrow than Riverfront’s were. I know they’re narrow than Dayton’s….(to squeeze more seats in, I’d imagine).

    I completely disagree with whoever said that it should have been at Broadway Commons…who wants a jail overlooking the ballpark, in addition to the area recently being named one of the 25 worst neighborhoods in the US, and the scene of the riots a few years ago. The problem with GABP is there is nothing (in terms of nightlife or restaurants) near it, and that’s because the knuckleheads that run the city goverment bulldozed all the nightlife on the riverfront to build the two stadiums and counted on The Banks to bring nightlife to the area…that’s worked out real well.

  35. Steve Price

    If the Reds want to get better they must deal from strength: relievers, 2b, at least one veteran SP, veteran catcher, and minor league third basemen, may be a minor league outfielder.

    I for one expected Taveras to be terrible, that Gonzalez would not recover, and that Hernandez would be terrible (he has been poor, no matter the press clippings of help).

    I thought Volquez would take a step back, and that Cueto would be in danger of being sent back to the minors due to increase of home runs at end of last year (I think I was wrong on that one…).

    We can cut payroll and improve right away…and free up money to get more guys….if we trade our young guys (especially our quality young guys–minor league 3b are ok), it’s a sign that more than Dusty needs to go…

    We need to get young guys for our vets…relievers can be found for next to nothing. For those who remember the last couple of years of bad relief work…please remember we had decades of quality relief work before that…good scouts found them…

  36. Travis G.

    I completely disagree with whoever said that it should have been at Broadway Commons…who wants a jail overlooking the ballpark, in addition to the area recently being named one of the 25 worst neighborhoods in the US, and the scene of the riots a few years ago. The problem with GABP is there is nothing (in terms of nightlife or restaurants) near it.

    The last problem you cited would not have been an issue at Broadway Commons, because the neighborhood to its west was already full of existing nightlife and restaurants when voters rejected that location (I used to go there all the time). Many more storefronts could easily have been converted to retail or entertainment within months if voters had decided otherwise. That area was happening pretty much right up until the 2001 riots (which I’ve always believed would not have occurred if Broadway Commons were under construction at the time).

    The study ranking OTR as the most dangerous in the nation was so riddled with errors that it’s essentially meaningless (for example, dividing violent crimes by residents can be misleading in heavily industrial areas). But the additional traffic generated by a ML ballpark and the resulting entertainment district would have made that neighborhood an undesirable place for drug dealers and prostitutes to ply their trades. It’s happened in other cities (Baltimore, Cleveland and Denver, for example), and it would have happened here.

    The wedge location was promoted, in large part, because powerful business interests (including the Reds’ former owner) wanted taxpayers to build parking garages for their employees.

  37. pinson343

    The Reds’ management should not be buyers in the sense of making a Scott Rolen kind of move, giving up young talent for an old and expensive player on a gamble he’ll get us into the playoffs.

    But they shouldn’t yet be sellers either. A winning record would be meaningful (to me anyway) even if we don’t get into the playoffs, and we’re not really out of it yet.
    They should look for trades that will make the team better this year and next year.
    The biggest team and organizational hole is at SS.

    What would it take to get Scutaro ? Are there other SSs we could realistically get who would help ?

  38. Jimmy

    Buyer. We need to pay someone to take Dusty away.

  39. Mark the Red

    The thing about GABP is that is affordable and mid size. New Bushc stadium, for instance, is neither.

    The views at GABP are great from most seats, but I’ll admit I have only ventured to the upper deck once.

    Fact is Cincinnati just can’t compete with the former Pac Bell and its views of SF Bay; but when you see how great the Pirates PNC Park is you realize that Cincy could and should have done more with the sightlines of downtown.

    And for all the talk of Fenway nowadays, I recall going there in the 90’s and sitting in the bleachers with so few people around that spliff smoking was the norm. Though that might be a bonus when watching crappy baseball, the lack of enough fans coupled with the decaying ballpark made it a dperessing place. Now with all this attention and capacity crowds, Fenway is anything but depressing (unless you are more dedicated to in game spliffs than a competitive local team)…

  40. mike

    and since this is somewhat of an open thread and since I can’t stand ALL baseball announcers I thought I’d post this gem I heard Joe Morgan say last night

    “When you play deep as an infielder, you cut down on your range.”

    are Joe Morgan and Dusty Baker the same person? Have we ever seen them in the same room at the same time?

    also from and their summary of “The 25 Non-Top 100 Prospects”
    23 Chris Heisey CF One of 09’s biggest suprises, destroyed AA (.457 wOBA) and is continuing in AAA

  41. pinson343

    Steve, For finding good relief pitchers, do we currently have the good scouts to find them ? It was our scouting that resulted in disastrous investments in Stanton, Majewski, Cormier, Hammond, etc. If we can pick up a Rhodes every year great, but can we ?

  42. Steve

    Reds Hitting Statistics

    FanGraphs allows you to sort all hitters in major league baseball and set a minimum # of plate appearances. If you set the plate appearance minimum to 160, there are 284 players across all of baseball who qualify. According to the measure wOBA (which weights OBP for power) here is how the Reds stack up: (remember, out of 284 players)

    Joey Votto – ranks #19
    Ryan Hanigan – ranks #104
    Brandon Phillips – ranks #117
    Chris Dickerson – ranks #146
    Laynce Nix – ranks #158
    Ramon Hernandez – ranks #230
    Jay Bruce – ranks #234
    Jerry Hairston – ranks #239
    Alex Gonzalez – ranks #283
    Willy Taveras – ranks #284

    That’s right, the Reds have the two worst hitters in all of major league baseball. The single worst hitter in all of baseball is our lead off hitter.

    Remember those games when we were treated to Baker’s lineup of 1.Taveras, 2. Gonzalez?? Pure genius.

    See how little sense it makes to bat Hanigan so low in the lineup?

    This isn’t rocket science, these are statistics that a person can find in 15 minutes of searching.

  43. pinson343

    I would have traded Dusty for Acta in a minute. So why not fire Dusty for Acta ?

  44. mike

    I was somewhat impressed with the way Acta handled their bullpen collapse
    Most people (and probably Acta as well) knew that Washington’s bullpen was going to be horrible but when it really really collapsed early in the season Acta had no problem at all going public and saying, if you aren’t going to get the job done we are going to bring in someone else. And then he followed up on what he said and Washington started trying anything they had in the minors to try and stop the bleeding.

    Washington has tried 16 different relievers, 5 of them have saves
    unlike Dusty, who continues to throw failure out on the field every day and refuses to budge in the face of failure.

    In other words Acta isn’t afraid to admit failure and willing to try something else.
    Dusty on the other hand might not even notice that he’s started many players who have failed.

  45. JerBear

    I’ve been to Riverfront, GABP, PacBell (at&t? San Fran’s park), and the DBacks stadium.

    I’ve actually been to the Dbacks stadium twice kind of randomly. I actually think GABP is better than the Dbacks park. I forget what it’s called now, so will just call it Dbacks park.

    Anyway, Dbacks park is very dark inside with the roof closed, and just kind of a boring field to me. Probably the roof being closed was the big thing to me though. Baseball being played inside is a terrible idea.

    I’ve always thought GABP just seemed very mediocre, average. I don’t think really anyone walks away from a Reds game thinking, man that was a great stadium.

    It’s very plain in my opinion. Even the boat thingy in centerfield just looks cheap or something.

    I don’t mind the Reds stadium. It’s not a bad place to go, but I can see why it gets low ratings compared to other stadiums. Nothing stands out. It lacks creativity.

    My favorite of course was San Fran’s new stadium. Riding on the subway which comes up right next to the stadium was just cool in itself…but it’s just a beautiful and inique field, and with the Bay right there it’s a beautiful and unique setting as well. Giants fans are fortunate to be able to watch their team in such a setting.

    Just from watching on television, I always think the Royals stadium looks really nice especially with the new renovations. It kind of looks like it has the character of a minor league stadium with about 15-20,000 more seats then a minor league stadium.

  46. David

    Greg, I would love to add Marco Scutaro and if getting him means taking on Rios’ salary, I’d do it. That’s the type of deal I’ve had in mind. I don’t know that the Reds could pull it off financially, and I don’t know what that type of financial commitment would do to the futures of Frazier and Alonso (the two guys I don’t want to see dealt). I don’t want Rios playing everyday CF and he isn’t a 3 hitter. Where’d he go when Bruce is back? LF? That said, I like the lineup…

    1) Scutaro – SS
    2) Dickerson/Taveras – CF
    3) Rios – RF
    4) Votto – 1B
    5) Phillips -2B
    6) Nix/Gomes – LF
    7) Encarnacion – 3B
    8) Hernandez/Hanigan – C

  47. Dan

    One random thing about the view from inside GABP… I do totally agree that our view from inside the park is pretty dull and not “Cincinnati-ish” at all… heck, it isn’t even Ohio! Pittsburgh has it all over us on the view.

    But there are rules from MLB about what direction a park has to face, I guess due to concerns about where the sun sets. (You wouldn’t want the sun setting in CF, of course, b/c it would blind the batter.)

    So anyway, there was no way you could put a ballpark in the riverfront area and spin it around so you could see the downtown Cincinnati skyline from inside.

    I think that, to see the skyline, you would’ve had to put the park north of downtown, and that just isn’t a very nice place for it. (Plus, you would’ve had a view of the “back side” of the downtown skyline anyway — not the “postcard view” at all which is always shown from the KY side.)

  48. Travis G.

    I wouldn’t go hitching any carts to Marcos Scutaro, who’s a 33-year-old free agent-to-be. He’s a nice player having a great first half, but he’s almost 18 months older than Alex Gonzalez.

  49. Andy


    Not only do we have the two worst hitters, with Hariston not too far ahead. Those three hitters have batted #1 or #2 the vast majority of the games this season.

  50. mdccclxix

    “The whole area is a tangled mess of freeways, parking garages, and visual clutter. Cincy really dropped the ball by forefeiting the riverfront to two huge stadiums, cutting off the city from its lifeblood. Epic fail on that account.”

    I share your sentiment about the stadiums on the river. I look at Chicago (a city with proud architectural heritage) and Seattle as examples of places that set their sports interest aside, literally and figuratively, for things that would interest all visitors and citizens while bringing pride and identity as well. Chicago’s waterfront is amazing, filled with fun activities for all people, all ages, most of it completely free. Seattle uses Alaskan Way to have ferry ports and neat shopping and restaurants on the Puget Sound. There is a walking park that’s really beautiful as well.

    These two cities have beautiful areas that attract all people fronting their cities, not bulky sports stadiums. I really really wish PBS was west of the 75 bridge and/or GABP was in OTR with Mt. Adams in the background.

    That said…

    I think the Banks is a huge encouragement for me. I think that soon GABP will be moving up the list because that district will be great. They’ll have the park fronting the city, they’ll have lots of residential and shopping. I looks to be very nice. AND – did you know that Ft. Washington Way was built to be covered with green space? This would look and feel great with a pedestrian area leading right into this lively district. I haven’t seen this in any of the new blue prints for the project though.

    Anyway, GABP is better than Safeco, which is #6 on this list, which makes me highly suspicious of it. Safeco is like a big bucket, no view from the inside at all – and with the cascades, Mt. Rainier, and the ocean right there, there is no excuse. It goes right behind GABP and the Skydome on the list of 3 current stadiums I’ve been to.

    Lastly, open question I’d love to hear from you folks on:

    Don’t you think Hudepol should open a brewery in the Banks? I mean frickin A! Something local right? Hudepol, Christian Morlein…Who Dey!

  51. WORLD


    The Reds are in a very weak division but I can’t seem them taking the division with this squad.

    Do two things at once. Just don’t sit still.

    1. The Big Boy has had a year under his belt after a brilliant collegiate career. Put Joey in left field and bring him up. Step one. Why not now? Joey’s not much at first and the Golden can take what he’s learned to The Show;

    2. Perhaps, now perhaps, get rid of your closer. You don’t need a bona fide closer when you’re in 3rd or 4th place. There’s some great arms in the minor league system that could close for the Reds. What you need is a shortstop who can hit and field. You have one but he’s playing second base right now and no one has the guts to move him to the place he should be playing- he’d be great if he didn’t dog it.

    3. Trade for a new center fielder. Taveras stinks but unless Johnnie B. goes, he’s your CF. But maybe you can get a deal on Dusty and Wigs and Coco and Hernandez and get some outfielder who is of major league caliber, and now you have the right guy behind the plate who has earned the job, and manager with a name that can motivate these guys. Fregosi? He’s available and won the pennant for the Phils in 1993. Davey Johnson for a second tour? All he does is win and win big. Or the red-ass from the Mets who’s been hiding ot in Japan. You need someone with a personality who knows men and can manage them and who will go out there and raise hell and make the fans support him and the team. You know- a leader.

    4. Leave your rotation alone.

    5. Release Alex Gonzalez.

    6. Get a third base tutor for EE. Mike Schmidt is dying to get back into baseball. What a coach he would make!! He’s an Ohio boy, isn’t he??

    OK, enough from me. What do you think????


  52. Y-City Jim

    Bogey, at best the Dunn and Griffey deals would be considered OK. They are not great deals by any stretch of the imagination.

  53. dick bronson

    First of all, I don’t like Great American because people call it GABP, even though Ballpark is one word.

    Additionally, GAB was built there for political reasons, and the spot is dreadful. The bottleneck that occurs buying a walk-up ticket on even slightly crowded games is ridiculous. You’ll find that in some other parks, but mostly at historic parks that had a neighborhood grow up around it, not at a park that was wedged into a spot where it never should have been.

    The rest of it is completely unremarkable. The batters eye was the ugliest thing in any ballpark anywhere, but now looks slightly better with the boat on top of it.

    On the bright side, the Hall of Fame is fantastic. Second only to the one in St. Louis.

    I’ve been to sixteen existing parks and 20 overall, and I think It deserves the number 25 ranking from what I’ve seen/

  54. Steve Price

    I’ll be surprised if Alonso is ready before 2011. 2011 may be soon, but he’ll have to be ready due to options.

    I loved the idea of getting Scutaro a couple of years ago. It’s way too late for his acquisition to be valuable now. New shorstops must be young shortstops.

    Rotation (Arroyo and Harang), and Phillips are about to eat so much so salary this team will be locked up just as badly as the Reds said they were with the aging Larkin and Griffey. Including Cordero, Weathers, and Rhodes (and Gonzalez and Hernandez), this team is about to look like a rich, retirement community at a time when it needs to be young.

    As for scouts (and coaches)….my opinion is that so-called small market teams need to spend a higher percentage of their salaries on these guys than large market teams to get the best. We can’t afford to make those kinds of mistakes. As for the relievers mentioned, that’s my point. We need to get young guys for $400,000, not over priced veterans. They’re there…I see new names on ESPN every night….we may even have them in Louisville right now.

    As for Rhodes, he’s been effective everywhere, but he’s been lights out at GABP. At home, opponents are hitting .109; on the road he’s hitting .240. Opponents’ slugging percentage at home is .190; on the road it’s .440. He’s also 39 and left handed. Sounds like a primary trade option to me….

  55. Dan

    World, who is “the Big Boy” and “the Golden”?

  56. Dan

    If you mean Alonso, you know he broke the hamate bone (I think) in his hand? He’s out for a while.

  57. Dennis

    I was at Fenway last week, the top rated park in the country. I was at GABP the month before, and found it ten times more appealing than Fenway. Alot of this rating business is bs. The one advantage Fenway has is a large, enthusiastic crowd. This has more to do with the success of the team than with the appeal of the ballpark.

  58. Chris

    Re: Broadway Commons: I’m no expert on Cincinnati or the riots from a few years back, but I’m VERY confident that the ballpark would’ve changed every bit of that. From personal experience, the East Village area of downtown San Diego was awful before they built PETCO. It was vacant lots, warehouses, and industrial buildings, populated solely by transients/homeless/bums and drug dealers.

    I was actually scared when I drove past there during the day to see the ballpark location.

    Now, it’s completely transformed, with fancy hotels, condos, shops, restaurants, etc. I’m not saying the cities are comparable, but Cincinnati left hundreds of millions of dollars in increased property values on the table when they picked the “wedge” spot. Not to mention the loss in value and enjoyment to the public.

  59. Jose

    I actually liked Great American better than the old yankee stadium
    Yankee stadium obviously had more energy for a Bosox vs yanks game
    but Great American is more appealing

  60. Steve Price

    During Home Run Derby they were just discussing “negative” effects from appearing in Home Run Derby. posted a study today that decidely disproves any negative effects. The negative effect that was shown in this study as quoted from researcher Dave Fleming:

    Spikers and Swooners

    Let’s ignore the Stay-Neutrals, and look at just the Spikers and Swooners. A side-by-side list:

    Swooners Spikers
    Lance Berkman Ryan Howard
    David Wright Sammy Sosa
    Bobby Abreu Albert Pujols
    Carl Everett David Ortiz
    Paul Konerko Jason Giambi
    Ivan Rodriguez Matt Holliday
    Luis Gonzalez
    Garrett Anderson
    Carlos Lee

    What do you notice about the two groups? Look at them for a minute. What jumps out at you?

    Exactly: the Spikers are comprised almost entirely of slow 1B/DH/Corner OF types. They are your traditional sluggers: the big boppers of the league. The only Spiker with any kind of speed is Matt Holliday. The only great defensive player is Pujols, a first baseman.

    Meanwhile, the Swooners, as a group, have much broader skill sets. You have a catcher, a third baseman, and three centerfielders. You have six players who can run fast.

    And to be frank, some of the Swooners don’t belong here. What the heck was Ivan Rodriguez doing in a Homerun Derby? Or Abreu? Or Everett? Or Garrett Anderson? Even David Wright is suspect: he’s a fine hitter, but he’s no masher.”

  61. Steve Price

    Those lists aren’t easy to read….the first column are the “swooners”; the second column are teh “spikers”

    Swooners: Lance Berkman, David Wright, Bobby Abreu, Carl Everett, Paul Konerko, Ivan Rodriguez, Luis Gonzalez, Garrett Anderson, and Carlos Lee.

    Spikers: Ryan Howard, Sammy Sosa, Albert Pujols, David Ortiz, Jason Giambi, Matt Holiday

  62. pinson343

    I was at Fenway Park, sitting in LF, and couldn’t even fit in my seat (and I was thin back then). You are close to the players and have a feeling of the history there.

    I loved the old Yankee Stadium, but it had gotten uncomfortable with the steep skinny steps,etc.
    The new Yankee Stadium is like an overpriced restaurant.

  63. pinson343

    I like Scutaro for this year but it’s been pointed out that he becomes a free agent at the end of this year, and he’s getting on in years, so that dampens my enthusiasm.

    Greg (#16) mentioned Brandon Wood, what do people think there ?

    Finally I like Alex Rios a lot. If Toronto is looking to trade him for less player value (i.e. a salary dump), I’d jump on it.

  64. GregD

    Scutaro is 33 and this is his first year of only playing SS (in the majors.) How good is his defense there?

    He’s having a career year offensively, putting up an OPS+ over 100 for the first time in his career. Looks like he started out as a 2nd baseman, but has been a utility man the past four years.

    Is he Jerry Hairston circa 2008?

  65. Chad Dotson

    Random question: are there any good baseball card shops near downtown Cincinnati?

    My son’s birthday is coming up and I wanted to see what I could find.

  66. David

    Greg – Scutaro very well may be Hairston, Jr. of 2008. However, the Reds need a SS and a leadoff hitter and Scutaro is both. If you take on Rios’ salary, Scutaro should come cheap. He’s a free agent after the season so there is no guarantee the Reds hold on to him past this season.

  67. AnnapolisRed

    Comment #4-Pretty disparaging comment of a guy that has done pretty well in his baseball career. You can not like some of his moves, but I think that comment is patently unfair.

  68. AnnapolisRed

    Comment #18-Sultan I couldn’t agree less with you. Wrigley is far and away the best park and I’ve been to almost all of them. I hate the Cubs too, but objectively there is no place close to Wrigley.