It’s the Independence Day edition of the RN game thread. And it is a new day, so we can be hopeful that things will be better for our Redlegs today.

If you’re going to the game, pick up one of these for my son (and another for my daughter, if you can) and I’ll pay you for it.

Discuss the game here….

201 Responses

  1. Chad Dotson

    Edwin Encarnacion is back in the starting lineup. Life is good.

    Forget about yesterday.

  2. Chad Dotson

    Reds lineup:

    Chris Dickerson LF
    Willy Taveras CF
    Joey Votto 1B
    Brandon Phillips 2B
    Jay Bruce RF
    Edwin Encarnacion 3B
    Jerry Hairston Jr. SS (Janish won’t be heard from again)
    Ramon Hernandez C
    Micah Owings P

  3. Chad Dotson

    Cardinals lineup

    Skip Schumaker 2B
    Colby Rasmus CF
    Albert Pujols 1B
    Chris Duncan LF
    Rick Ankiel RF
    Yadier Molina C
    Joe Thurston 3B
    Brad Thompson RHP
    Tyler Greene SS

  4. Chad Dotson

    I don’t know if anyone will be around here for the game today. Lots of grilling going on, and it’s a beautiful day where I am.

  5. Y-City Jim

    More performances like last night and there will be a Homer Bailey bobblehead night coming soon.

  6. Kenny

    And don’t forget that most of us are demoralized after last night’s debacle.

  7. Chad Dotson

    Yeah, I don’t want to get too excited about Bailey, but it’s difficult. He looked so good last night, and he has been great since learning the new pitch.

    Maybe he really is going to pan out after all.

  8. Kenny

    Did you see what Pujols said about Homer?

    “Homer Bailey pitched an unbelievable game. He has electric stuff. If he stays healthy, he’s going to put up big numbers.”

  9. GregD

    So Baker “concedes” that Taveras shouldn’t be batting leadoff, and drop shim to 2nd two days in a row. Expect more bunts when Dickerson reaches base…even when he doubles like yesterday. (yes it “worked” yesterday, but wouldn’t you rather have a hitter there who’s taking a shot at singling him in…you know scoring, not just moving a fast runner to 3rd, without giving up an out?)

    Still, the better defensive centerfielder is playing left field.

  10. GregD

    It’s overcast and rainy in central indiana. Threat of rain all day. If storms materialize, as much as an inch of rain.

    Same threat for the game? I’ve haven’t heard/looked up the Cincy forecast.

  11. Chad Dotson

    Stupid Fox blackout. I can’t watch the game here. No, Fox isn’t actually broadcasting a game, but I can’t watch the Reds on Extra Innings, nonetheless.

    These blackout rules are archaic and ridiculous.

  12. Jason

    Big Big Game today with Carpenter tomorrow and of course what happend last night. Go Reds.

  13. Chad Dotson

    I am permitted to watch the hot dog eating contest though, so I have that going for me, which is nice.

  14. GregD

    The FOX game is not until 4pm, why are you blacked out from a 1pm start?

  15. GregD

    Southern Indiana radar shows a lot of rain. Maybe today will end up being an exhibition.

    Any guess on the lineup vs Philly LH pitchers? Taveras back to leadoff??

  16. GregD

    Why don’t more teams do this more often with struggling prospects…teach them another pitch? Bailey supposedly had to ask (and be told no) several times in the past regarding the splitter.

  17. Matt B.

    Taveras will now bat leadoff tomorrow…

  18. GregD

    Taveras is halfway to 100 steals by now, right?

  19. Matt B.

    Votto strikes again!

    Actually, Greg, he’s 3/4ths of the way there already. Amazing.

  20. Chad Dotson

    Good question (about blackouts), Greg. It makes no sense whatsoever.

    That’s the Extra Innings rule, though.

  21. AnnapolisRed

    WWKU has free internet stream of the radio broadcast.

  22. AnnapolisRed

    Cubs down 5-0 in the first to the Brewers

  23. AnnapolisRed

    Marty just said it is raining

  24. Chad Dotson

    I’m listening to Marty on XM. I was just settled in and looking forward to watching at least part of today’s game in HD, though.

  25. GregD

    They’re 4th worst in the league in a lot of offensive categories, Thom.

  26. Matt B.

    Sigh, just get the ball in the air. I’d have to see the replay again, but I’m not positive Molina touched Votto.

  27. Chad Dotson

    “Starting to rain harder now,” says Marty.

    Now he and Hal are talking and ignoring the game. I hate the second inning on the radio.

  28. NYCRedsfan

    once again the reds fail to get a runner in from third with less than two outs. this is a fundamentally bad baseball team and that’s the manager’s fault. i’ll say it until i’m blue in the face: dusty baker’s doing nothing but holding these kids back.

  29. AB

    I wasn’t sure if Molina got Votto either, but he didn’t argue, so I’m assuming he got him.

  30. Kyle

    Offensively, I can’t imagine being much more disappointed in Bruce this year. Keep waiting for him to start hitting and it is not happening. On the other hand, I would’ve never predicted the way Votto has hit this year. Coming into the season, I just wanted to see him repeat his numbers from last year.

  31. Matt B.

    According to the radar, it looks like it’s going to be raining in Cincinnati for a long time. It doesn’t look very heavy, though (just a bunch of green on the radar). So they might just play through it.

  32. Kyle

    I think Dusty Baker is a terrible manager, but it isn’t his fault Bruce couldn’t do his job. It is nice to look at the lineup now that the Reds are at full strength (especially with owings). Sub in Nix or Gomes for Taveres and it is not too bad.

  33. GregD

    so extra innings doesn’t show games on saturdays? or just not 1pm and 4pm starts?

  34. Matt B.

    Ugh, not a smart defensive move. Welsh sounds genuinely pissed off.

  35. AB

    Yeah – that was bad. No excuses for that one.

  36. Kyle

    What happened? Did Micah throw to the wrong base? At least he made it through the 2nd unscathed.

  37. Matt B.

    Encarnacion came in to try and field the ball even though it was clearly the pitcher’s ball. If he had stayed at home, the runner would have been dead at third.

  38. AB

    The ball was bunted hard back to Owings. Molina was dead at 3rd, but, for some unknown reason, Encarnacion wasn’t at the bag.

  39. Chad Dotson

    The FOX blackout on Saturdays is lifted at 7 pm, so all the evening games are shown. No afternoon games, though.

  40. AnnapolisRed

    The more things change the more they stay the same. Bruce can’t get a runner in from third and EE does not know what he’s doing at third base (we still need him because of his bat but he is a buther in the field).

    Marty, Brantly and Hal all killed Dusty for not walking Pujols and they scoffed at not walking him because of Ryan Ludwick was batting next.

    Chad-I actually like the 2nd inning. It is interesting to hear what the beat writers have to say. I don’t feel like I missed any of the game.

  41. AnnapolisRed

    Chad-Except WGN is showing the Cubs-Brewers game nationally. Not sure what the difference is.

  42. Matt B.

    OWINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT A SHOT!

  43. AnnapolisRed

    If Dusty likes Taveras leading off why not hit the pitcher (especially Owings) eighth and Taveras ninth. He can be the second leadoff hitter and not get as many at-bats. I would love to see Owings in the OF sometime. He is a legit major league hitter.

  44. Chad Dotson

    I really don’t care to hear what Hal McCoy says in the second inning, but I could ignore it if Marty would just tell us what happens on every pitch. Often, he doesn’t say anything about the play on the field until there is a hit or an out.

  45. Kyle

    Wow, Micah Owings. For my annual Reds game, I attended the one where Owings pitched 7 innings and hit a 3-run homer to lift the Reds to a 4-3 win. Unfortunately, I also attended the next days game where they got pounded 7-0 by the Braves.

  46. Matt B.

    Thurston almost threw it away again, similar to last night. He needs to work on that play.

    Nonetheless, it’s good to see Taveras using his speed to his advantage.

  47. Kyle

    Yeah, Owings is such an odd player. I’ve always wanted to follow a guy that could pitch and actually hit. I also always wanted to follow a Rob Deer type homerun hitter, and got to follow the best ever in that mold with Dunn.

  48. AnnapolisRed

    Votto hitting .404 with runners in scoring position, .455 with two outs and runners in scoring position.

  49. Kyle

    AR, I’d love to see Owings 8th, Taveres 9th, but I can’t imagine Dusty ever doing that. When Owings pitched against the Indians, could he have hit for Taveres (and the Reds use the DH for Taveres instead of Owings)?

  50. jason1972

    Taveras could now hit .085 the rest of the year and still be guaranteed a spot in the starting lineup every day.

  51. Kyle

    Hopefully, Taveres is starting to get hot. It would be nice to see him hit well over the next 20 games when the Reds are playing such tough opposition.

  52. JasonL

    Oh man, there is no set of stats I hate more than the RISP nonsense. Why don’t you just tell me that Votto is hitting .543 with a runner on third and two outs in the first three innings versus NL central teams. What a useless stat.

    Also, if Taveras isn’t careful, his OPS is going to get over .600.

  53. jello

    Kyle- I don’t know for sure but, I think you can.

  54. mike

    no no batting Owings 8th and Taveras 9th is BACKWARDS!

    the reason for batting a better hitter 9th is so they get on base and you hope that gives your #3 hitter more RBI opportunities.

    Taveras CAN’T GET ON BASE and Owings is a better hitter and he should bat 9th

    Here is an idea. Don’t bat Taveras ANYWHERE in the lineup

  55. Kyle

    How many times in the past week has anyone thought to themselves, ‘I wish Alex Gonzales would hurry up and come back?’

  56. mike

    Jason I’m with you on all the obscure RISP nonsense. I noticed yesterday on the tv broadcast they were showing a ton of silly splits with RISP and junk and they weren’t showing the number of plate appearances. So for all I know the player that was batting .333 in that obscure situation has 3 PA.

    I love the, Player X in some obscure situation is hitting .250 with 3 HR and 6 RBI which is “ranked” (which stat is ranked?) 4th in the league. I usually sit there and wonder well, did they hit any other extra base hits? Did they BB or not and how much? Is that 20 PA or 200 PA?

  57. BrentM

    Nice job there by Micah. Amazing what happens when you walk Pujols and make someone else beat you.

  58. NYCRedsfan


    i don’t wish gonzo was back. i wish jocketty would package say arroyo, maloney and maybe valaika for a shortstop who can hit and field.

  59. JasonL

    Mike, my favorite part about all of that is that the so-called old school guys like Dusty and Marty will pull out the old RISP at the same time they talk about how stats are overrated. Because, obviously, RISP is not a stat.

  60. mike

    How long before some reporter asks Dusty about Willy’s getting a couple hits and the reporter and Dusty congratulating themselves by imagining this old cliche.
    Moving him to the #2 spot, hitting in front of Votto, he’s seeing more fastballs

    I can’t wait to hear that one.

  61. Kevin Mitchell is Batman

    i.e. Yunel Escobar

  62. AnnapolisRed

    Thank you very much. EE can’t come through so Molina helps us out.

  63. AnnapolisRed

    JasonL I completely disagree with you. Votto has come up a bunch with runners in scoring position. It is an important stat.

  64. NYCRedsfan

    wait what happened. i’m watching on the internet. how did phillips score on EE’s K?

  65. AnnapolisRed

    Molina tried to pick Phillips off third and threw it into left field.

  66. Y-City Jim

    Any of you heard Marty Brennaman’s new radio show? It’s called “Anything but Baseball” and it airs at the same time as the Reds game. Today he had Jeff Brantley on as a guest. They were talking about some homemade fried chicken and cole slaw that someone made for the media today. They talked for five to ten minutes about it. Daddy Wags and the Segman are frequent guests to the show as well.

  67. Steve Price


    Another reason for Taveras’s fastballs and batting him second..

    “with Dickerson on base and a steal threat, Taveras will see more fastballs.” plus Votto, so the pitcher will pitch to Taveras.

    Frankly, unless you’re a really good hitter, it doesn’t matter…because if he does hit those fastballs, what’s he going to do with the curveballs once he’s moved back to the top of the order?

  68. Kyle

    ESPN still hasn’t updated the score. Terrible job by Edwin regardless.

  69. Steve Price

    I wish no ill will toward Alex Gonzalez, but I don’t wish him back.

    I do feel we’ll need a search party to find Janish again after last night’s error.

    Did anyone else notice Herrera’s reaction backing up home after the runners scored on the hit following the error?

    The producer flipped cameras as quickly as possible.

  70. Y-City Jim

    Janish was destined to be sent to the phantom zone whether he committed the error or not. Jerry Hairston is God’s gift to baseball in Dusty Baker’s eyes. He may even be greater than Willy Taveras.

  71. preach

    Why would you ever throw a pitchout with Taveras at the plate? Groove him one and get the double play on the weak grounder.

  72. AB

    It was a hit and run. Dickerson’t not at fault for getting doubled up on that. If anything, blame WT for not getting the ball on the ground.

  73. NYCRedsfan

    if we had a decent manager perhaps he could teach these kids how to run the bases. speed does you no good if you aren’t fundamentally sound.

  74. Y-City Jim

    Hit and run or not, shouldn’t there be more awareness as to where the ball is hit?

  75. LVW

    Here’s how you call a Joey Votto homerun:

    “Votto bing Votto BOOM!

  76. AB

    Yes, but a shallow line drive to right and there isn’t time to get back to first when you’re already standing on second. Same thing if it would have been a liner to the infield. It just happens sometimes on a hit and run.

  77. Ramrod

    I appreciate the attempt to honor the troops, but can we stop with the interviews please?

    We’ve missed like two whole innings now because of it. I wish they would stop trying to be a news team and just report on the game.

    /end rant

  78. AnnapolisRed

    Once again EE fails with runners on base but hey that isn’t important.

  79. BrentM

    Wow! Dusty trying a squeeze? That’s a little too risky for him isn’t it?

  80. preach

    Nice hustle by both Bruce and Hairston. Bruce did well to break it up and Hairston busted it down the line.

  81. AnnapolisRed

    Luckily for the Reds Joe Thurston is a worst third baseman than EE

  82. Y-City Jim

    I can’t wait until Bruce learns to hit MLB pitching with some regularity because I love the rest of his game.

  83. Chad Dotson

    Has that Thurston kid ever made a good decision defensively. All I’ve seen him do is screw up.

  84. LVW

    Pujols up first in a 5-1 game. Gotta love that.

  85. BrentM

    You said it Annapolis. I’d imagine Card fans would love to send him on his way.

  86. LVW

    Chad- I live in an area that shows the Cards so i see a lot of their games and I can tell you Thurston is the worst baserunner I’ve ever seen in addition to being a bonehead in the field.

  87. preach

    Jim Day seems rather dry sitting in the stands. Hopefully Owings can go a little while.

  88. BrentM

    That shoulda been two. Duncan had no intention of trying to get the base and couldn’t have if he’d wanted to.

  89. JasonL

    Annapolis (68), The problem with RISP is sample size. For example, Votto, as noted is hitting .404 with RISP this year. That is, he is 21 for 52. However, take away two of those hits and his average drops 40 points so that it is right in line with his overall stats this year. RISP tends to vary wildly from year to year, but, if you look at a player’s career you will find that, with VERY rare exceptions his RISP averages end up almost exactly the same as his overall averages. That’s why it’s a bad stat. It doesn’t tell you anything that his overall numbers don’t tell you better.

  90. preach

    You gotta be kidding me. Freakin’ little league. Owings should be out of the inning.

  91. BrentM

    Thank You Jay Bruce!!! Thought Thurston was gonna make me pay for talking about him…haha.

  92. preach

    Bruce wasn’t all innocent on that play either. They weren’t going to test his arm anyway. He should have hit the cutoff man. But, Bruce catches that one.

    It always makes me nervous when extra outs are given with Owings on the mound. When the defense is good behind him he is a completely different pitcher. Glad to be out of that one.

  93. AnnapolisRed

    Yeah but the two hits he did get that you want to take away might have driven in four runs and won three games. I know what you are saying, but don’t 100 percent agree with you. What is Albert Pujols hitting with runners in scoring position? I know he is 6-7 with four grand slames this year with the bases loaded.

  94. JasonL

    I am totally comfortable with Bruce in RF for the next 15 years.

  95. AnnapolisRed

    Bruce is great defensively. He is going to be fine offensively. Can’t forget how old he is. He is frustrating at times but in no way do I ever want to give up on him.

  96. preach

    Why have Owings bunt there? Why? He can hit and it is so much more likely to have a pitcher hurt on a play like that? Bad move. Period.

  97. preach

    Now we have two quick outs against a rookie who has an ERA close to 5. Sheesh.

  98. JasonL

    I don’t think you do see what I am saying. The point is that players who hit better in certain situations don’t exist. All RISP numbers do is capture fluctuations in the numbers. Votto could go 20 for his next 50, but that doesn’t make him a .400 hitter.

  99. AnnapolisRed

    I will give Taveras credit he really has hit the ball better (could he have done worse?) recently.

  100. AnnapolisRed

    No, I do see what you are saying but I don’t think it’s true for all players.

  101. Kyle

    I would have a very short leash on Micah this inning.

  102. AnnapolisRed

    Preach-My guess is he did that on his own.

  103. JasonL

    Oh and here’s a great illustration.

    Pujols w/ RISP: .379
    w/ RISP and 2 out: .133

    So, is he clutch unless there are two outs or what?

  104. LVW

    Owings bunted on his own, that wasn’t a manager call.

  105. preach

    I’m salty about that Owings bunt. It’s raining. We already have health problems in our rotation. He can hit as well as the two guys who are following him. Why try to suprise there? Ridiculous.

  106. Ramrod

    AnnapolisRed: I agree. Credit where credit is due. He’s playing well this week.

  107. preach

    Then I hope someone talked to him about it when he returned to the dugout.

  108. NYCRedsfan

    dusty proves again he’s the worst manager in baseball. why is owings bunting leading off the inning. the man can hit it over the fence. why, oh why, is he bunting? complete and total idiot.

  109. AnnapolisRed

    Preach-That isn’t called by anybody. That is Owings doing it on his own.

  110. AnnapolisRed

    Guys, lay off Baker on this. He did it on his own. Plenty of legit stuff to rip him on.

  111. preach

    Thom and Chris are talking about the improvement in the number 5 spot in the rotation. There were a couple of seasons Owings could have been our opening day starter.

  112. BrentM

    I hate nothing more than what I’m about to see happen. It may work this time. But I HATE seeing a pitcher pulled with two outs.

  113. preach

    Great job by Owings. Two runs, and it really could have been one. I’ll take that from a number 5 every time.

  114. LVW

    I’ll take 2 runs every time from ANY starter.

  115. AB

    Nice outing by Owings. Would have been great for him to have gotten through the 7th, but I’ll take than from the fifth starter (and probably any other starter for that matter) any time.

  116. pinson343

    It’s Deja Vu all over again. But I prefer Masset to Weathers.

  117. LVW

    They aren’t walking him- if they were the would left Daniel Ray in with another lefty to follow.

  118. LVW

    At least the worst he could have done was tie it, unlike last night.

  119. NYCRedsfan

    all right masset!! i’m breathing again. whew!

  120. pinson343

    Now I’m not generally into the “I told you so” thing but in the recap last nite I said Masset should have been brought in to pitch to Pujols and just know I felt like we actually had a good chance to get Pujols out.
    Nice job, Masset !

  121. pinson343

    (160) Chad, absolutely. That was my main concern after the game.

  122. Ramrod

    Yea, glad to see it was just a bump on Masset. He made Albert look SILLY. Nice performance there.

    Now we just can’t let the Machine get to bat again, let’s finish this in style. With Albert around I don’t feel comfortable unless we have a 4+ run lead.

  123. Kyle

    I never would’ve guessed that Phillips has more walks than strikeouts this year. He still isn’t the most patient hitter, but has done a much better job so far this season.

  124. pinson343

    Yes, let’s hope no more Albert for this game.

  125. Tom Diesman

    Oh good, Stormy is up in the bullpen.

  126. Ramrod

    Tom, I think you mean S***** or D**** W*******.

  127. pinson343

    That’s it, Rhodes. Show some veteran smarts !

  128. jello

    David Weathers. David Weathers. David Weathers. David Weathers. Dave Weathers. Davey Weathers. David Weathers.

    A little bit of therapy for everyone.

  129. bird2431

    is there a way to read the comments from the threads on a mobile device??? I have been trying all weekend on my phone and can only get a mobile version of the site that only lets me read the post and not the comments. Any help would really be appreciated

  130. pinson343

    Nix hits more doubles than singles.

  131. Ramrod

    Bird: Works great on my Dad’s verizon phone. Opens up great, no problems, and can post/read comments. Someone said something about having issues with their Iphone though in the last thread. I don’t know enough to be of any help though.

  132. AB

    I’m not able to see or post comments from my iPhone either.

  133. LVW

    Someone mentioned the difference in Pujols’s average with RISP and RISP with 2 out:

    My theory is the weaker pitchers tend to walk him(more than half of his 2 out ABs in those situations are walks)and the stronger pitchers pitch to him and stronger pitchers are more likely to get batters out(even Pujols).

    How about this difference with Pujols- RISP less than 2 outs .453; with 2 outs .125(after today’s 0-1)

  134. NYCRedsfan

    runner on third, less than two out. anybody giving odds on this?

  135. NYCRedsfan

    a fundamentally bad baseball team and it’s the manager’s responsibility.

  136. bird2431

    Thanks for the info, if any of the admins know a solution and can post it, that would be great. Without being able to comment and read others comments, the site loses one of its biggest strengths in my opinion. Might be worth looking into….

  137. NYCRedsfan

    f****n terrible. you gotta at least make contact in that situation. c’mon cdick.

  138. Jason

    Ekkk,, Im throwing up in my mouth as we speak….ugghhh eckkk.. :emotion: :poke:

  139. BrentM

    Man, Bronson really brings a tear to the eye.

  140. JasonL

    #181 – Ick. The point I was making is that RISP numbers are MEAN-ING-LESS. Pujols is a .336 hitter. Period. He is not better or worse depending on who, if anyone, is on base. He is a fantastic player, but he, like all other mortals, is not blessed with a special Clutch! Hitter!! Superpower!!! He’s just good all the time.

  141. Chad Dotson

    What type of mobile phone are you using, bird?

    I’m posting this with my blackberry from my back yard.

  142. CarolinaReds

    Missed the whole game and they won…great!! I was at a July 4th tea party…

    check it out!

  143. pinson343

    I’m glad CoCo didn’t fool around there. I was imagining another grand slam from Pujols.

    The Cardinals are overrated. Tomorrow’s matchup looks bad, but let’s hope we get good Arroyo and eke one out.

  144. pinson343

    Jim (191) Love the Tris Speaker reference. Greatest CFer of the Dead Ball era.

  145. AnnapolisRed

    Huge win. After last night’s punch in the gut I give the team a lot of credit for bouncing back and I give Dusty credit as well. After last night it would have been easy for this team to roll over and lose 4 or 5 in a roll. Biggest credit goes to Owings.

  146. NYCRedsfan

    coco’s been lights out all year. here’s a vote for coco, cueto and votto to make the all-star team.

  147. Y-City Jim

    Hope Arroyo pitches better tomorrow. I hope he pitches better than he sang God Bless America. I’m going to have nightmares about that. He should do a duet with Rosanne Barr.

  148. Y-City Jim

    Is there a sunscreen behind Jim Day or did the apocalypse just arrive in Cincinnati?

  149. bird2431

    Sorry, stepped away for a bit. If you see this chad it is an iphone, seems like some others were having my problem with an iphone as well. Let me know if you can…