Bill:

Votto hasn’t played since what…Saturday? And they say he’s going to undergo more tests, which means he’s out for at least several more days..DL him and get someone up that might help. No matter who you bring up, it’s better than someone that you KNOW isn’t going to play.

Then GregD:

Bill, what is this “DL” you speak of?

Finally, Jared:

And yeah, I agree, put him on the … DL. How long does a guy have to be out before you replace him?

Discuss.

32 Responses

  1. GRF

    Replave Votto and Gonzo with whom? There are no position players other than Sutton we can bring up on the 40 man, and while he may be better than nothing, it probably is not by much.

    When Bray finally goes on the 60DL, they better give that spot to a position player. Heck, sign some unemployed guy for depth if you need to, but give yourself some flexibility for these situations.

  2. Chris

    Didn’t we discuss this yesterday? They ascribe no penalty whatsoever to playing short-handed for over a week, yet apparently consider it the end of the world to DL someone who’s injured for 14 days.

  3. RiverCity Redleg

    GRF.. I just asked on the previous post, why have they not put Bray on the 60-day DL? The only reason they bring up Viola was b/c they didn’t want to waive anybody to make room for him. This would have solved that. Btw, I agree w/ you, though, that spot should be for a position player (named Jonny Gomes).

  4. GregD

    One to two series at the most. If they are going to miss more than a week, why wouldn’t you give your manager the best team on the field, DL the hurt player, and give your team a 25-man roster to play with.

    I think you consider the longer periods for your better players. In my mind that is Votto, Bruce, Phillips, and Encarnacion only (amongst the hitters). A lot of the other players are a lot closer to replacement level, that a bench player or AAA player may either match or outperform the injured player, especially over short periods of time.

    So, I’d hate for the team to not have Votto next week if he’s expected back by Memorial Day. However, I think the team would have been fine, if not better, if they had someone up for Gonzalez. Give him some rehab time, and bring him back healthy. (In Gonzalez’s case, I’m pretty sure he’s not been 100% since opening day.)

  5. Glenn

    The Reds are going to have to DL SOMEBODY, they just can’t keep playing short-handed.

  6. Matt WI

    Management seems to be playing both sides: “We don’t have to make changes b/c the team is winning.” OR- “We don’t have to make changes even if the team is losing because we don’t expect to be in the hunt this year. Those doggone Brewers.”

    While I’m not chasing playoff tickets, it’s really, really, sad to see the team not be able to patch itself up. And while there is merit to the “replace with who?” argument, in my mind, that’s just further “shame on you” to the management for not constructing more flexibility. Did they learn nothing last year when they went through 3 shortstops?

  7. John

    To me, it seems like Walt Jocketty is just too gunshy to be a GM anymore. The guy can’t even bring himself to put Bray, who will be out a year, on the 60-day DL. Ever since the Mulder trade (and signing) in St. Louis, Jocketty has done very little to avail himself as a modern big league GM. He does not act decisively.

    Krivsky might have seen Bray’s injury as an opportunity to tinker with the 40-man. Even Dan O’Brien would’ve done something by now. I’m not talking wholesale changes here. Put Bray on the 60-day and call up Viola instead of Ramirez. DFA McDonald and call up Gomes. Simple. Two moves.

    Are the Reds really so broke that they can’t take on $800,000 for two players who should be here?

    Maybe Jocketty doesn’t want to mess with team chemistry. That’s fine, but what if, say, Hernandez gets hurt playing 1B? You’re down to one catcher and you have to call up Tatum or Castillo (who in my view would be a catcher exclusively if he were really a good catcher).

    I’m not saying carry three catchers. I’m saying protect the two you have. And let Hanigan play some more.

    Chemistry is one thing, but when you play short-handed for 2-3 weeks and find yourself looking up at the Pirates in the standings, that kills chemistry too.

  8. Bill Lack

    I think at this point, too much is being made of Bray not going on the 60 day..he only had the surgery yesterday. That said, it should happen today so this team can add someone to the 40 and get some help up to the big club.

  9. Mr. Redlegs

    Dan O’Brien was a stiff-collared, know-nothing, do-nothing, ownership ass-kissing, Grinch-looking, useless waste of GM office space. He was hired against John Allen’s advice and only because Lindner thought he would present well to his business cronies.

    But yeah, you give more time for players like Votto. What if the doctors come back and say, hey, take Dramamine BID and you’ll be fine, and he’s ready to go Friday?

    THAT’S why you wait.

    And really, now that Ramirez is called up, what’s the big, phat hurry to put Bray on the 60-day? He’s not going anywhere. You’re gonna need the slot. So screaming about something that’s an inevitability just clogs up Al’s interwebs.

  10. GregD

    I agree with Bill. Bray doesn’t have to go on the 60-day DL until they need to add someone to the 40-man. If they are going to call up players to the 25-man that are already on the 40-man, I have no problem with Bray staying on the 15-day DL.

    I think all this also makes the decision to not give Phillips a longer trial at SS in 2006 and/or 2007 even more phoolish.

  11. Kurt Frost

    I realize Gonzalez is making $5.3 million, but the money is gone whether he’s hitting .100 or .350. Why keep running him out there?

  12. mdccclxix

    So…Jocketty has no wherewithal left because he can’t “handle” a 60 day dl transaction and won’t bring the player you like up??

  13. Mr. Redlegs

    “Why keep running him out there?”

    Because he’s got just 86 ABs, that’s why. He’s not getting out of that slump sitting, and his defense hasn’t stunk. He’s still the best they have at turning the double play, he’s still the best they have on the backhand, he’s still they best they have for positioning.

    There’s a lot more to playing shortstop than offense. And if your boss fired you after 24 days/games, would you think that was fair? Was that right?

    Where Baker has made a mistake is not giving Gonzalez a day or two off each week and easing him back into playing shape. But the idea of Hairston playing shortstop every day . . . well, they may as well find Royce Clayton somewhere.

  14. Matt WI

    If management is taking the “long view” and is purposfully avoiding starting the clock on players by adding them to the 40-man, then I can live with that. We as fans don’t always get to know what the “master plan” (and yes, I’m giving them a leap of faith that there is one). That said, if we are willing to stay mediocre now and not make any particular helpful (or seemingly logical) moves, my expectations for 2010-2012 are going to be very high and more demanding. We’ve been waiting a LONG time to win again and truly feel the Reds can go toe to toe with the rest of the league.

  15. mdccclxix

    I’d guess MacDonald DFA’ed when Edwin is ready. Hairston/Nix R/L platoon in LF.

  16. Jared

    I don’t know all the rules, but say you can retroactively put a guy on the 15DL for one week. 8 days with someone else (Gomes) instead of Votto, would be fine. Even if he was ready to play tomorrow. But he won’t be — he’s recovering from illness, and a week of taking it easy is probably the best thing for him and what he’s likely to get anyway. There’s an empty spot on the roster right there for the taking.

    Now, if there really is “nobody to replace him,” what happens if Votto retires tomorrow? Do Jocketty/Dusty leave an empty spot on the roster for the rest of the year?

  17. jason1972

    Reading the comments on the Enquirer update today, someone is claiming that Votto has been diagnosed with vertigo and that he has it from a source. I have NO idea if the commenter is full of it or not.

    From someone who calls him/herself ‘noneya1’:

    “Joey has vertigo according to a good source of mine that is highly reliable, you all know who he is. This is a scary thing due to the fact it could be 1 week, 3 months or his career that is threatened. What a bad break for Joey and only wish he’s back sooner than later or never.”

    http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090519/SPT04/305190036/1071

    I don’t know anything about the poster or his history to say whether he is reliable or if his ‘source’ has been reliable in the past.

  18. Steve Price

    I agree that Dusty should have rusted Gonzalez more, but the problem is bigger than that…management should have known there was great risk to Gonzalez returning at a quality level and they haven’t addressed it, or didn’t care to address it.

    Reports on our minor leaguers say we don’t have real shortstops in the system. Janish isn’t going to hit, no matter how well he’s started. Janish is better in the field than Gonzalez right now…Gonzalez should have called off Hairston to catch the pop up that Hairston almost missed at 3b the other night, for example…but, it takes lateral movement and Gonzalez has pretty much become a statue in the field.

    The fact that Janish, who runs about like Votto, was sent in to pinch run for Gonzalez spoke volumes to me.

    I’m not going to say that Janish has “earned” the spot over Gonzalez, but he needs to be playing a lot more…and I’m not saying that Janish is Lou Gehrig, but legend has it that it didn’t but one game for Lou Gehrig to replace Wally Pipp, and Pipp was a quality player and still producing.

  19. Matt WI

    “rusted Gonzalez”… that’s a great Freudian slip. Not knocking a typo, just pointing out how it changes the meaning very appropriately in this case.

  20. preach

    I can see how you could confuse “Pipp-Gehrig” with “Gonzales-Janish”.

    I am being smart. I understand you point and it is well taken. It just made me smile a little….and cry a little.

  21. preach

    “rusted Gonzalez”: Quick, call up Oil Can Boyd and all of our problems will be solved!

  22. GregD

    I wouldn’t trust anything written in the Enquirer comment section. Random, anonymous commenters have been trying to start that “rumor” for days all because former Red Nick Esasky was dizzy with vertigo. Votto is a Red, a 1st baseman, and is dizzy. He must have vertigo, too! :insert eye rolling smilie:

  23. Jason

    All of this waiting, guessing and reading on Votto is starting to drive me crazy. Im growing more and more nervous with each passing hour of no real updates. :worried:

  24. Jason

    Im starting to wonder if there is weight to the argument that the Reds are holding off on dropping news, because of fan moral going into this lenghty 9 game homestand.

  25. RiverCity Redleg

    Jay Bruce should get together with Norris Hopper and work it out so that they each have one first name and one last name. 😀

  26. Matt B.

    McDonald is in the lineup tonight against the lefty Moyer. Apparently, Nix hasn’t done enough to show that he can play everyday. Good call there, Toothpick.

  27. GregD

    Get used to McDonald because I think the Reds play at least 5 lefties in a 1 week span. 2 Phillies, 2 Indians, and Wandy Rodriguez in the opener vs. Houston.

  28. preach

    This team has the depth of a shallow grave.

    Nix should start over McDonald regardless of who is on the mound.

  29. John

    I predict McDonald will go 1-30 over the next week, and the 1 hit will be an infield one.

  30. GregD

    Kurt – that’s my wife’s prediction.

  31. preach

    That should be very easy to diagnose. Could be an inner ear problem however.