Trade for Nick Swisher (he’s on the outs in NY) and put him in LF, move Chris Dickerson over to CF, score more runs.

45 Responses

  1. Matt WI

    Who are you offering to the Yanks?

  2. doug

    Chad,
    While that seems all well and good…. where will we be able to get our havoc from?

  3. Steve Price

    How would EE look in pinstripes?
    May be they could use Weathers or Rhodes?

    How about Hernandez?

    I just read in the Fielding Bible II, that Hernandez made more defensive misplays than any other catcher in 2008 (49) including 34 “wild pitches” that weren’t that wild…at least according to the person scoring the game (that was third behind Bengie Molina and Joe Maurer). He had the second most “exceptionally”poor throws on stolen bases (7).

  4. preach

    Gotta agree with Doug on this one. You have to decide what’s more important: Scoring more runs, or playing the game the right way with havoc. Is there really a choice there? Oh, sure you might create an immediate upgrade to your offense and provide yourself some roster flexibility without losing defensive capability; heck, you might even have a piece or two you could part with at the all-star break to make a real difference next year, but what is all that compared with speed, grit, and dedication to playing the game the right way?

  5. GRF

    MLB trade rumors had a blurb that the Twins are looking to move Delmon Young (or a couple starting pitchers who were out of options) for relief help. I still think Young would be an interesting by low opportunity if you could get them to take a Weathers (can he he be traded?) or Lincoln type, plus opening up a spot for a younger pitcher.

  6. nycredsfan

    No way it happens…..Willy T is just too valuable to this team!

    Seriously, my only problem with Swisher is his contract. It’s not that expensive, but he’s locked up through 2011 with over 32mil guaranteed left. I just worry that he’d block some younger guys in a year or two and be too difficult to trade.

    Otherwise, make it happen!

  7. nycredsfan

    Hey look, I just made the list of top commenters. Woo Hoo!

  8. Mike

    Too late. Should have been done before we got Taveras.

  9. Chad Dotson

    Oh yeah, I forgot about the havoc factor. Never mind. I should just delete this post.

    As for Mike’s suggestion at #9, I strongly disagree. The fact that we have Taveras shouldn’t hinder the Reds in trying to IMPROVE the roster. The Reds should always be trying to get better, period.

    Now, the Reds might be saying “too late” like you did, I will concede. But I still think an acquisition of Swisher improves this team, depending on who we give up in exchange.

    Would anyone trade Arroyo for Swisher?

  10. Bill Lack

    Not right now, but I might halfway through the season if the kids are pitching well.

  11. Phill

    If Nick Swisher could put up numbers 2007 numbers i’d love him as a Red. But if we play the if he can game if Taveras can put up 2007 numbers and Hairston and Dickerson can put up 2008 numbers we don’t really need Swisher.

    What are the odds of Swisher being offensively good or anywhere near worth the contract he has? He takes a lot of pitches but it doesn’t really seem to help his walk count.

  12. Y-City Jim

    Someone needs to develop a mathematical method for measuring HAVOC (we need to make an acronym from this) and it’s relationship to offensive production. Any math gurus out there?

  13. Dan

    Arroyo for Swisher? I say NO WAY to that one.

    I’m not convinced that once the season gets going and the little injuries start happening, we’re going to feel like we’ve got the pitching depth that we feel like we have now. (In fact, if memory serves, Boston traded away Arroyo in March of whatever that was – 2005? – in a year that they felt like they had too many starting pitchers… and then by July and August they were shopping around for one more.) True depth of quality pitching is probably the hardest thing to come by in today’s game.

    So if we DO trade one of them (like Arroyo), I don’t want to just get back a so-so middle-aged (in baseball terms) corner outfielder. I really think Arroyo has more value than that.

  14. Cary

    FYI,

    I’m sure there are many folks out there just like me that stop reading blogs that pile on a player over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. But its your blog.

  15. Jimmy James

    Ummm…who is getting piled on in this thread? Are you seeing something I’m not?

    I love how people will always find something to complain about. Looks to me like commenters are just discussing something here, and in a fairly civil manner.

    I doubt anyone cares whether you come back to this blog or not, if you aren’t going to contribute anything meaningful to the conversation.

  16. Jimmy James

    Surely you aren’t talking about Danny Graves? Sheesh, lighten up.

  17. Glenn

    I Swish would be a great addition to the club, but his contract is too rich for our front office.

  18. preach

    I gotta say “no” to Arroyo for Swisher as well. I think decent, healthy starting pitching is worth a corner outfielder who is on top of his game, not trying to rebound. I think we could do better for Bronson than that. If we are in the hunt at the all star break and need an outfield bat to put us in, and the kids are pitching well, that’s a different story. But since that doesn’t look to be the case an innings eater #3 type starter is a valuable commodity who could fetch a little more than that.

  19. pinson343

    If this were going to happen, wouldn’t it already have ? WJ was talking with the Yankees about getting Nady or Swisher about a month ago. If it didn’t happen then, why would it happen now ?

  20. Chad Dotson

    I don’t know if it is still a possibility. Just tossing it out there since it was just announced that Swisher is essentially a bench player for the Yanks.

    As for Arroyo…I’m not really sure what his value is on the open market right now. An argument can be made that his value is very high, but an argument can be made that his value is questionable. I would love to know how other major league front offices value him.

  21. Chad Dotson

    The biggest question surrounding Arroyo, IMO, is this:

    Will he be making brand new JTM commercials for this season?

  22. preach

    Question is: If your only options were for him to make new ones, or just rerun the old ones, which would you choose?

  23. BenL

    I think Arroyo is the guy on this team likely to pitch the most innings this year, given Harang’s injury last year and all the other guys being young. With such a young rotation the bullpen will thank us for keeping him. I’d hold onto him unless we got a really good deal… something better than Swisher.

    And I’m looking forward to some new JTM-Arroyo commercials… though it wouldn’t be so bad to be “together again” with the old ones.

  24. brublejr

    I don’t like the idea of Swisher at all. The main reason is the money…he is owed way too much for what he has produced the last couple of years. He would be locked up for 3 more years, during that time frame the Reds younger studs will be ready to play. Now if you could trade Coco for Swisher straight up…I would do that because Swisher has much more value than a “closer” that can’t get anybody out making 12 mil per year.

  25. GRF

    Y City, someone noted earlier that Harang, Arroyo, Volquez, Owings and Cueto form “HAVOC”.

    I don’t think it was decided whether that was a good sign or a bad sign.

  26. Mark in CC

    The fact that thw White Sox played Griffey over Swisher tells you all you need to know.

    Poor average, slightly above average power, 120+ks, but great walks. Poor mans Adam Dunn.

    He isn’t better than what we have.

  27. Y-City Jim

    GRF, I know we had that one but I mean an acronym that somewhat implies what HAVOC is supposed to be. I think the VOC could be velocity offensive choas. What can the HA be to go with that?

  28. Cary

    “Ummm…who is getting piled on in this thread? Are you seeing something I’m not?

    I love how people will always find something to complain about. Looks to me like commenters are just discussing something here, and in a fairly civil manner.

    I doubt anyone cares whether you come back to this blog or not, if you aren’t going to contribute anything meaningful to the conversation.”

    See posts 2,6,9,11,13,27,30,31

    Enough already about Taveras. As for adding something meaningful to the blog, I would say hammering on one thing over and over again is not really adding anything meaningful either. Of course, when we get bored with Taveras, we can hammer on Dusty, right?

    As for whether or not I frequent the blog, I believe the goal of a blog is to have readers and contribute meaningful information through the blog writers.

  29. brublejr

    Cary, The numbers say all that needs to be said about that certain player. His numbers have been posted along with many others sparking the conversations. If you have information available to why he will be a good player, by all means post them and we can discuss them. Everybody is going to have their favorites and their whipping boys. After eight losing seasons and counting people are going to be more cynical. Everyone here has at least one thing in common and that is we all love the Reds and want to see them return to glory.

  30. aaron

    Swisher would add life to this ball club though….. imagine BP and Swish dancing after a homer and he makes people throw pitches

  31. earl

    Nick Swisher was one of the guys I thought the Reds could pursue, as he is a Burt Reynolds player on a Mac Davis salary kind of guy coming off a bad season, which are the type of players Cinci can afford these days.

    He is also a switch hitter and from Ohio (played for the Buckeyes), so I think he could be a good fit.

    The guy is also not old, so if Swisher fits they might be able to lock him up and become part of the core of the club.

  32. Mark in CC

    I guess I am missing something here. A guy that averages .245, strikes out 130 times whose positives are that he is average defensively, walks 90 times, and steals 3 bases.

    His claim to fames was a 35 HR, 90 rbi season three years ago before performance enhancers were tested for and the fact that he was a star in the book Moneyball.

    Great he is a Buckeye but I stand by what I said a couple of days ago, he is not better than what we have.

  33. GRF

    Swisher might be an intersting buy low opportunity if you can get him for nothing in a salary dump, otherwise no.

    Horribly Annoying, Very Offensive Chaos?

  34. Tom Diesman

    Really?

    Willy Taveras > Nick Swisher

    LF Swisher
    CF Dickerson/Hairston
    RF Bruce

    Swisher is a good bet to go .250/.370/.480/.850 and play positive defense in LF for the duration of his contract. A switch hitter in the middle of order with 25-30 HRs. Last season appears to be the abberation, besides the big year in 2006 he put up a very solid 2007 also, .262/.381/.455/.836. He’s 28 this season and can also fill in at CF and 1B in a pinch. He’s signed through 2011, with a 2012 club opton, 09:$5.3M, 10:$6.75M, 11:$9M,12:$10.25M club option ($1M buyout). I’d take a flyer on him. Frazier, who I think is a better option at 3B, and Votto, if forced to LF by Alonso are our only prospects on the horizon for a LF and they are both question marks as OFs.

  35. Tom Diesman

    I wanted to point out also that Swisher’s strikeouts would be an improvement over the Red’s proposed Dickerson/Gomes platoon. Career numbers below for Swisher, the proposed Red’s LF platoon, Dunn for fun, and other Reds who K over 100 times per 500 ABs.

    Name K/500AB
    Swisher 127

    Dickerson 172
    Gomes 163

    Dunn 162

    Bruce 133
    Gonzalez 102
    Encarnacion 100

    Note that Dickerson and Bruce’s minor league SO numbers aren’t far off from their major league numbers listed above.

  36. Mark in CC

    “Swisher is a good bet to go .250/.370/.480/.850”

    Las Vegas and Pete Rose would take that bet.

    Lifetime averages
    .244/ .354/ .451/.805

    His numbers have not improved in last two years in fact they are going down. So it is a lock they will go back up why?

    Did anyone notice him bulk up during big power year. Think he had help with those numbers?

    The proof might be Griffey playing ahead of Swisher down the stretch and in the playoffs in Chi-town. And, Sox were sure quick to trade him at seasons end.

    Put a fork in him.

    As far as Gomes goes I don’t think he is any longer a lock to make roster in fact might be a longshot. Hairston will be the LF platoon. I think Nix will the non roster outfielder to make the team, although it worries me that Jones is still around.

  37. Tom Diesman

    Too bad I don’t have a bookie. 🙂

    Here is why I am expecting Swisher to improve next season and why I believe that 2006-2007 are more indicative of his skill level than last year, which I believe was an aberration.

    Yr LD% BABIP OPS
    2006 19.3 .287 .864
    2007 17.5 .308 .836
    2008 20.9 .251 .743

    Despite hitting more line drives last season, Swisher’s BA on balls put in play fell about .040 compared to his last two seasons. League average BABIP is about .300. Swisher is primed for a rebound.

  38. Chris

    “Swisher is a good bet to go .250/.370/.480/.850″

    Las Vegas and Pete Rose would take that bet.

    Lifetime averages
    .244/ .354/ .451/.805

    His numbers have not improved in last two years in fact they are going down. So it is a lock they will go back up why?

    That’s an easy one – he’s moving from the tougher league to the easier one, and from a pitcher’s park (Oakland) to a hitter’s park. (Granted, Comiskey2 is a hitter’s park, as well).

  39. Lon

    Swisher played last year for an idiot for a manager. He started the year as the leadoff hitter. He was highly praised and suddenly fell out of favor. He would add a switch hitting bat to our left handed team. I think he would would make a good #2 hitter if he rebounds any bit from last year.
    The Yankees are a bit more desperate to move him now after naming a rookie as their CF. Swisher now is lucky to be their 5th OF.