Many of us here really wanted to see the Reds pursue Rafael Furcal as the answer to this team’s shortstop woes. While it looks like Furcal is going to sign somewhere soon, it doesn’t appear that the Reds were ever in the running, or even made any effort.

If Furcal ends up signing with the Braves, as reports are indicating, I’d love to get my hands on Yunel Escobar, who started at SS for Hot-lanta last year. The kid can play.

21 Responses

  1. catcard202

    I’d love to get Escobar, as well as Francour…Both are young & have very solid upside potential…(even if Francy had a down yr).

    A deal centered around either Arroyo or Harang might get it done…since ATL is dead set on getting another ace SP. If we could swing a Escobar/Francour for Arroyo/Kepp…I think I’d do it in a minute.

  2. NickP

    That would be an incredibly lopsided deal, even considering that Francouer is awful.

    Yunel is one of the more valuable players in baseball, given his contract status and productivity.

  3. nycredsfan

    Rumor is if the Braves get Furcal they’ll keep Escobar, move him to 2B, and move Kelly Johnson to the OF. If they did decide to trade him, I’d be willing to do an Arroyo/Escobar straight up swap. I have very little interest in Francoeur. He did have a down year last year, but he has never gotten on base very well, his defense isn’t very good, and apart from his rookie year his slugging hasn’t been that great either.

    I would jump at Escobar, though, and as he’s young and still cheap, he seems like somebody Walt would be willing to pick up.

  4. catcard202

    NYC,
    Heres my thinking, as flawed as it may be…

    WJ is said to be considering “long-term” solutions to the OF make-up. FA Guys like Taveras(27 on Xmas), Baldelli (27) and Rivera(30) have been mentioned…and the Dye rumor persisted awhile…BUT, $$ was asticking point(same w/ Burrell)…It’s also been mentioned that WJ/CIN contacted ATL about Francour. (Though it was played down by ATL at the time.)..So, some level of interest is there.

    Francour’s only 24…He’s proven to be durable (155+g/yr over last 3yrs)..He’s put up over 270RBI and a .284/.344/.441 line w/ runners in scoring position, over that same 3yr time frame(2006-2008). His defense in LF would be a HUGE upgrade over what we’ve seen the last umpteen yrs (DUNN) and no worse than what we’ve seen in RF(Bruce included). He’s not exactly that expensive, either…$460K in 2008.

    Plus, factoring in his RBI totals w/ his low OBP plays directly into what Dusty craves. A guy that gets guys in w/o clogging the bases. (lame attempt at humor)

  5. Shawn

    True that. Maybe if we throw a couple young pitchers at the Braves, who could use some arms, they’d cough off Escobar.

  6. Phill

    Yunel Escobar is really good. I think the only way to get him would be overpaying with prospects but how many young good hitting-good fielding shortstops are out there right now at the major league level?

  7. Mark in CC

    The asking price for Escobar will be too high.

    There should be no young arms for a shortstop. The Reds minors is very deep in shortstops(Janish, Valaika, Cozart, Fraizer, Buckholtz, etc.) I would rather keep the young pitchers. Is there a health status report on Alex Gonzales. Best case would be for him to play this year while the young shortstops and arms continue to progress. The Reds can win with a healthy Alex Gonzales as well as with anyone else including Escobar.

    I don’t know why everyone is so bent on trading Arroyo. He is a bargan as a third starter who can win 15 games and eat up innings, which he did for a poor ball club. He had 2 horrible starts and if you remove them from the equation his numbers were above average for that slot.

  8. Phill

    The problem with a lot of the Reds’ shortstop prospects is that people aren’t so sure they could fit as shortstops as much as other positions(2b,3b,OF).

  9. GregD

    You’ll see a lot of 15 game winners on this pitching staff next year if each pitcher get 5.1 runs per game in offensive support.

    Furcal’s agent said something about his openness to playing 2nd base. Looks like they’d keep both Escobar & Johnson.

  10. Travis G.

    Rumor has it that Furcal’s leaning toward staying with Los Angeles, anyway. Doesn’t want to play second, apparently.

    But if he were to return to Atlanta and the Braves were inclined to deal Escobar, no way do they take anything less than Cueto or Volquez. I would not make that trade, and I doubt Jockety would, either.

    Mark, I saw a quote by Dusty the other day that said Gonzalez still has some pain in one spot on his kneecap. Might be minor, but it doesn’t sound good. The Reds should proceed as if he’s not coming back, and if he does then yay.

  11. Mark in CC

    Thanks for Gozo update Travis.

    Greg: “You’ll see a lot of 15 game winners on this pitching staff next year if each pitcher get 5.1 runs per game in offensive support.”

    Never a more true statement and if that were the case for Arroyo it might be relevent. However in the 15 games he won in 2008 his ERA was 2.61 (26 Earned Runs in 99 2/3 innings.

    Is he a Number 1? Absolutely not. Is he a great value for a Number 3? Absolutely yes. Although there is no doubt they have the potential to surpass him I don’t think the Reds want to bank on Cueto or Owings until they actually do it for a year. Gotta keep him especially with a little uncertanty surrounding the year Harang had in ’08.

  12. mhopp

    Rumor has it that the Reds making a trade for such a highly touted not washed up player is unlikely to happen. Their building on youth, low salaries and future value. I’d say it was a pipe dream to think Furcal would be on the Reds team, but it doesn’t hurt to dream.

  13. Tom

    I’m having a real hard time seeing Arroyo as a bargain the next two seasons. The following is ML SP, 27 or older, with 140+ IP, plus or minus .25 of ML SP LG AVG ERA of 4.32. Oh, and Bronson, since he fell below this measure last season.

    PLAYER IP ERA 08Sal
    Ted Lilly 204.2 4.09 8.0M
    Tim Wakefield 181.0 4.13 4.0M
    Braden Looper 199.0 4.16 5.5M
    John Maine 140.0 4.18 .5M
    Greg Maddux 194.0 4.22 10.0M
    Oliver Perez 194.0 4.22 6.5M
    Dave Bush 181.0 4.28 2.6M
    Randy Wolf 190.1 4.30 4.8M
    Doug Davis 146.0 4.32 7.8M
    Odalis Perez 159.2 4.34 .9M
    Brian Moehler 142.1 4.43 .5M
    Jason Marquis 166.2 4.43 6.4M
    Andy Pettitte 204.0 4.54 16.0M
    Brett Myers 190.0 4.55 8.6M
    Bronson Arroyo 200.0 4.77 4.6M

    Looking at the salaries of the #3 SP listed above, I can’t see where Bronson’s 2009 and 2010 salaries of 9.5M and 11.0M are going to be a bargain. I’d gladly deal Arroyo’s contract off for the right package of prospects.

  14. bweav44

    Here’s a thought that’s been shot down by the organization before, but I think merits consideration: move Phillips to SS.

    If A-Gon can’t go this year, why not move your best defensive infielder to the most important infield defensive spot? I don’t buy the “why would you weaken yourself at two positions” argument.

    You can fill the 2B spot a hell of a lot easier than SS with internal options. Kepp is a better fit there. Castillo is a better fit there. Hairston would be a better fit there. Phillips could be a gold glove guy at any infield position if he wanted to.

    I’m hopeful A-Gon can go and this is a moot point. Also moot if they somehow did trade for Escobar.

    It’s interesting that now Furcal is backing away from ATL because he wants to play short. That should increase the likelihood of Escobar being available.

  15. bweav44

    Also think that if Arroyo could net Escobar, I’d do it.

  16. Jose

    I would love to see arroyo go to the braves for Escobar
    or just for franky nad someone else
    i cant stand long hair
    hes annoying a crappy pitcher and cant sing worth crap

    so yeah
    escobar wont get here unless we give up a little bit
    but whoever said they should trade harang needs help
    harang was hurt this year
    thus he had a bad year
    give him a break
    he will still be our ACE in 09
    he’ll start opening day
    and should be in good form

  17. KY Chip

    Furcal has re-signed with the Dodgers according to mlbtraderumors.com. Looks like a 3/$30m deal.

  18. Matt Steele

    ummm… I don’t know why anyone would think that we could get Escobar for Arroyo when the Braves are extremely reluctant to put him in a trade to get Jake Peavy

    Yunel is not going anywhere for anyone on our team that we’d be willing to trade

    I’m glad we didn’t go after Furcal either, that injury history plus salary isn’t worth the risk to a team like we have.

  19. bweav44

    All the reports I read said the Braves were ready to put Escobar or Johnson in a deal, but it was their reluctance to deal their top prospects that killed the deals for Peavy.

    They aren’t going to part with Escobar now because they dealt Lillibridge and they’d have no one to play SS.

    I predict that agent’s going to loose clients over this douchebaggery. Hope his fee off this contract was worth it, because he’ll never be able to deal with the Braves again.

  20. Mark in CC

    2 of the guys (Lily and Petitte) listed as valuable #3 starters above pitched more innings than Arroyo.

    1 of the guys listed had more wins Lily (17).

    All but Maddux were on better teams and he ended up on a better team.

    The Reds can not get ahead by getting rid of arms until their is a proven replacement. They will continue to tread water.