Always one of the topics of discussion in Redsland is pitcher Bronson Arroyo. I want to know what you think about him.

What is the Nation’s collective wisdom regarding Bronson. Is he overrated, underrated, or just rated? What is his future with the Reds, and what should his future be?

Let’s hear it, guys and gals.

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Previously:
Brandon Phillips
Edwin Encarnacion
Francisco Cordero

28 Responses

  1. Kurt Frost

    An inning-eating 15 game winner. 🙂

  2. Mark in CC

    I think he is rated. As Kurt said: “inning eating 15 game winner.”

    I think his promotion based, rock and roll, blond hair waving, JTM singing, colorfull image overrates him in some peoples eyes but not with the baseball people.

    He is a 15 game winner and should be for the forseeable future. He is definitely a keeper.

    His positive marketability, as stated above, isn’t a bad thing either.

  3. Adam

    Wins are the most overrated stat in pitching. Look at Matt Cain, look at Brandon Webb in his second season. That being said, Bronson is a very valuable 4th starter, especially for the Reds. Put him behind Voltron, Cueto, and hopefullly Harangutan and he’ll be at his best. Just like any other good player, Bronson is worth keeping around unless a deal that brings in a better player comes around.

  4. Josh

    Keep him. Watch what guys like Randy Wolf will get this offseason. He’s a bargain and consistently puts up 200 IP. Given sufficient run support he is a solid 13-17 W candidate.

  5. Sultan of Swaff

    I don’t think you can put a value on him yet until the free agent pitching market shakes out. However, it’s obvious veteran innings eaters do command a fairly high return. He’s a tough call because he’s a fairly valuable trading chip–could probably yield a quality shortstop (JJ Hardy!) or left fielder, yet I’m not prepared to go into next season w/ two rookies in the rotation. I’d deal him for the right package, but only if we signed a FA #4 starter type.

  6. Bill

    He’s also tough to tag b/c he’s so inconsistent. He’ll go along seemingly unhittable, then suddenly…he’s throwing BP out there.

  7. David

    To me he is a Dave Bush type. Yet Bush’s salary is approximately half that of Arroyo. So yes, I think he is a bit overvalued.

  8. Nathan From Muncie

    I agree with Bill he is hard to tag because he is inconsistent. For me, I hate him for half the year and then think he can be great the other half. He is an innings eater though, but if you could get something use-able for him in a deal I would do it.

  9. Fundy

    Bill and Nate are right, Bronson is a Love-him Hate-him kind of guy. It always seemed to me last year that he just didnt come in focused enough on pitching. He was playing his concerts right up until the time he really went on the skid. Then all of a sudden he finds some heart and speaks up. I was very very impressed with what he said last year about keeping the staff together, and that this team could go places. Why, now that we have 4 solid starters, are people beginning to talk about moving him. 15 win, inning eater…how many of those guys are out there, and have actually said they want to be a Red? 1. Bronson Arroyo.

    Although it sounds like we just missed getting Crisp, I wonder if Broson would have been headed back to Beantown?

  10. Phill

    Bronson is just rated. He’s too inconsistant to try and say he’s too good or too bad. I’d hang on to him unless you get some real nice deal in a trade.

  11. Kevin

    I like Arroyo. He’s really frustratingly inconsistent, and has all of this hideous outings..so it’s even more remarkable how he actually manages to put up such solid numbers (200 IP and 15 wins is great if you ask me and seems like a lot of us). I think he really does know how to pitch.

    Is he worth the money? As Sultan said, we’ll probably find out. I’m happy to have him on the team, and (I always get shot down for this), I’m always favorable towards players who like to be in Cincinnati and seem to care more about seeing this team get back on its feet than personal glory. Those are the type of guys I like to have around. I hope Arroyo gets a few more chances with us to really prove what he can do if he stops pitching with hangovers and playing so many concerts.

    That all being said…I’m so afraid of trading in general that I’m hesitant to say I’d be for something…but I think I’d go for Arroyo straight up for Hardy..he fits Jocketty’s 0-3 criteria right?

  12. Mark in CC

    There is consistent talk of trades with Milwaukee. Weeks,Hardy, etc. I can not imagine 2 contending hopefulls trading within the division.

    What is Micah Owings arm issue. If healthy that is your #4 or #5 acquisition.

  13. David

    I don’t know why the talks either. SS is not a place where Jocketty seems to be spending a lot of emphasis. The only known rumblings are the Reds inquired into Atkins, Holliday, and Co-Co Crisp. It seems outfield is the first priority and given the roster it should be.

    I have said a couple times that the Reds could do a number of things to improve the club. Toronto and Kansas City have a glut of outfielders so I’m looking at guys like Alex Rios, DeJesus and Teahan for OF help. If a trade of Arrroyo will be made it will be for an OF.

    SS help can be found in a low cost utility guy like Nick Punto. No reason to trade Arroyo in division for SS help.

  14. preach

    KC for having a glut of OFers just traded for Coco Crisp for a reliever.

  15. Y-City Jim

    Only a rich club is going to take on Arroyo’s salary, and right now they are all attempting to throw money at pitchers like Sabathia, Peavy, Burnett, etc. How long until the Yankees have a $300 million payroll?

  16. David

    Preach I don’t know if you are being glib, but check out the following:

    “The deal creates something of a crowd in the outfield if David DeJesus moves from center to left, where Mark Teahen was often stationed last year. Jose Guillen is the right fielder.

    The acquisition of Crisp could trigger more deals. On Tuesday, Teahen was linked with the Chicago Cubs, although sources with that club have since downplayed that interest.” – http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081119&content_id=3684444&vkey=news_kc&fext=.jsp&c_id=kc

    It does create a glut of OFers. The Royals are fielding offers on Teahen and DeJesus has been mentioned in rumors as well. DeJesus has significant value because of the extension he signed in 2006.

    The glut of OF also doesn’t take into consideration Mike Moustakas who could be up as early as 2010 and projects at both SS and RF.

  17. Josh

    As it relates to the Royals, I’d rather see Billy Butler with Votto moved to left field than any of the outfielders.

  18. preach

    I wasn’t trying to be glib, just stating that KC added even more outfielders. Had to figure another trade or two is in the works for them.

    Just saw this article. “Cinci looking for lefty reliever”, ah, wouldn’t that be Affeldt? According to Jeremy, the Reds didn’t really even try to resign him. Curious.

    Cincinnati looking for a lefty reliever
    Getty Images

    Cincinnati Reds general manager Walt Jocketty confirmed interest in free agent lefties Arthur Rhodes, Will Ohman, Darren Oliver, Dennys Reyes and Joe Beimel.

    The Reds have held talks this week with three of their own free agents — right-handed relievers David Weathers and Mike Lincoln and infielder/outfielder Jerry Hairston.

    A right-handed power hitter also remains on the agenda, but Jocketty all but ruled out free agent Pat Burrell.

    “I’m looking to see what we can go after in trades first,” Jocketty said. “He might be a little out of our price range.”

  19. Brian

    Thank you no Pat Burrell.

    I Like Bronson alot more than when he first came over. When he was first brought to Cinci he did have that first amazing year, but he was the #2 in the rotation. Now that he is the #3 or 4 he has great value in the middle to end of the rotation as opposed to the front of it especially because he eats innings and can be lights out at times.

    If Owings and Harang are healthy going into spring training I think that is where you could see Arroyo moved to make room for a rookie. Leaving your rotation looking like 1. Volquez 2. Harang 3. Cueto 4. Owings 5. Rookie which isn’t a bad rotation.

    But if we can get what we need without moving him thats even better. But I would rather move Arroyo (if Harang and Owings are healthy) than move some of our top prospects.

    As for Value in the mid to end of the rotation its great value especially when you look at the contract Loshe signed last year.

  20. Brian

    Oh and rumor is that the Dodgers won’t try and resign Beimel which occording to the teams he is linked to leaves the Mets, Reds and Rockies (since Trevor Miller is supposed going to sign with the Cards). I would not mind having Beimel and Bray as the two lefties.

  21. preach

    I agree with a No to Burrell. Should have kept Dunn if that’s the case. Beimel throws some serious gas. He reminds me a little of Lidge with the way his heat moves…..makes you wonder which guy you would get: this year’s version of Lidge or the one from the last two seasons……it’s always a gamble in the pen. I’m getting off my Affeldt soapbox in a minute, but gee, this problem shouldn’t even exist. Like you, Brian, I am looking forward to seeing a healthy Owings. When healthy, he would be the best #4 or 5 in baseball. That rotation looks pretty good with or without Bronson. A number 3 or 4 innings eater should bring you a difference maker right now, or some top prospects for the future. I looked again at the list of available free agents in the outfield and at first base, I was not impressed.

  22. Dan

    Bray is great (and does NOT need to be treated as a LOOGY – let him pitch an inning or two at a time!). Dusty needs to turn him loose.

    I’d also be happy to give Herrera (the 5’7″ screwball-tossing lefty from the Hamilton-Volquez trade) every chance to make the team in the bullpen. I may be in the minority on this, but I think he’s going to be good. I don’t care that he’s 5’7″ (or less??) and that he only throws 84 or less… Check out his minor league numbers!

    http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/H/Danny-Ra-Herrera.shtml

  23. Dan

    So anyway, I guess what I’m saying is, we have good kids coming up for the bullpen. I don’t think we need to overpay for someone like Beimel.

  24. earl

    I think the Reds should hold onto Arroyo. He either has two years on his contract or it is down to one.

    As long as Arroyo doesn’t completely tank out of the gate, which he did last year, I would think he would be more valuable to deal at mid season.

    The Reds went so many years with such cruddy starting pitching and the league has such a premium on the position, I have a hard time letting it go unless it being paid at a premium.

    Arroyo is a solid #3 starter and if the Reds can avoid a bounce back by Volquez, get a bounce back by Harang and improvement by Queto everything else will take care of itself.

    The one guy I was interested in seeing if the Reds could get for cheap was Nick Swisher and the Yanks got him. I’m more they should just stand pat and maybe try and get a couple of vets on short contracts for the pen then put any money towards keeping the young core of the club intact (like the Indians did quite well a few years back).

  25. Tom

    Arroyo gets 9.5M in 2009, 11M in 2010, and a club option for 11M in 2011. I’d deal him if I could get a younger pitcher to compete with Bailey/Thompson/Ramirez/Maloney for the 5th spot and a young player to fill in one of the holes at C, SS, or OF.

  26. mham209

    Bronson may be streaky, but at the end of the year he’s always in the mid teens in wins with around 200 innings. Those numbers speak for themselves, he’s a keeper and a bargin in todays market.

  27. Sherry

    I like Bronson Arroyo, I have ever since I first saw him pitch! He is a keeper, he eats up over 200 innings and he wins 15 games a year and with a better team he can win MORE! either get better players or trade him to the east!
    PLEASE
    Maybe Boston !!!!!!!!!!!!