I’d love to see Joey Votto win National League Rookie of the Year, and he’s making a great case for the honor. I just can’t see him winning, but what an outstanding rookie year this kid has had.

Yeah, we’re all frustrated at this crappy organization, but Joey Votto is one of the great big bright spots. I’m glad he’s a Red.

22 Responses

  1. Y-City Jim

    He might pull it off if he can lift the average over .300. The voters are likely ga-ga over batting average.

  2. John of Muncie

    Unfortunately, Geovany Soto is besting him in most offensive categories, and he’s playing for a winner in a large media market. Votto has a big hurdle.

  3. Kevin

    Right. There’s about 45 of us Reds fans. Is ROTY fan voting or press voting or manager voting? I don’t remember.

  4. John of Muncie

    Well, it’s a BBWAA voting thing, and they usually go with the guy who has the best numbers. Sometimes they go with the guy whose numbers might not be the best, but who plays for a winner. Not to knock the idea — I’d love to see Votto get it because I really see a quiet leader emerging there. I just don’t know how realistic it is this year.

    (Also, I think the ROY is a hex for Reds players.)

  5. Phill

    The problem with Votto vs Soto is a lot of what has already been mentioned.

    Soto plays on a winning team in a large market.
    Soto has generally better numbers across the board.
    Soto plays for a team that can get on base for him to drive in and that can drive him in if he gets on.

    As far as I know “everyone” made it official that Soto was ROY like two months ago. Unless he has an offensive crash or Joey Votto has an even more insane surge Soto will get it…even if they match stat for stat by the end of the year.

  6. mike

    Votto’s been great. One of the better Reds rookies in recent years. But Soto’s got him beat by a mile.

    VORP
    39.9 Soto
    20.6 Votto
    18.4 Stewart (Col)

    RARP
    36.7 Soto (only 17 NL players have more, and Dunn is one of them)
    16.8 Votto
    16.4 Stewart

    WARP3
    8.6 Soto
    5.7 Votto
    3.2 Stewart

    Win Shares
    23 Soto
    17 Votto
    11 Stewart

    here are the last few Reds rookie position player to have over 15 VORP and where they came in in the ROY voting.
    26.9 3rd Kearns (2002)
    26.5 3rd Morris (1990)
    26.4 n/a Hamiton (2007)
    23.0 4th R Sanders (1992)
    22.5 ROY Sabo (1988)
    20.1 4th Dunn (2001)
    19.6 0 Stynes (1997) (Stynes didn’t get any votes?)

    Dunn didn’t play a full season and had some of the biggest competition imaginable. Pujols, Oswalt, and Rollins

    Only 2 rookie position players had higher VORP than Stynes but he only played 48 games so he didn’t have a chance.

    Why didn’t Hamilton get votes last year?

  7. mike

    I included all those numbers and then I realized after I posted that they are slightly misleading. MANY if not most rookies don’t get the luck or good timing to play the entire season. Even Votto wasn’t handed the starting job at the beginning of the season. All the above stats are totals stats.

    EQA
    .304 Stewart
    .293 Soto
    .280 Votto

  8. mike

    sorry to post again on the topic but I just noticed who’s 4th in the NL among rookie position players with a VORP of 12.6

    DICKERSON

  9. World

    Two years ago, I was talking to Votto as he hit balls out of the hand of a coach at the “beautiful” spring training facilities in Sarasota. He was pumping them over the fence and one ball bounced a bit and hit the large shed where the indoor batting cages are located. I said to him “Can you hit the shed?” which is a huge shot. Joey said to me “Watch this” and hit the next one OVER the shed.

    Wow! He impressed me for sure.

    I think that if he wanted to only hit dingers, he would have a bunch more.

  10. Sultan of Swaff

    He’s even cleaned up his act defensively in the second half. I love everything about this kid–his hitting approach, his demeanor, you name it. He’s not a rah-rah guy like Dunn or Griffey, but there’s just a different presence about him that should serve the interests of the club more than the other two……if we’re talking about that nebulous thing called leadership.

  11. James

    Seems to me we have a conversation like this one at the end of the year. Such as Phillip’s gold glove chances, or harang for cy young, all star invites, and now votto for rookie of the year.

    The stats are comparable, but the problem is the reds haven’t been good in a long time. Soto will win because he is having a very good season and so are the Cubs.

    My question is what if the reds were in first place and the cubs were at the bottom, would Votto win rookie of the year or will the national media’s love for the cubs win it for Soto??

  12. Chris

    I’m always wary of armchair assessments of clubhouse leadership.

    But I do love Votto’s approach at the plate.

  13. Sultan of Swaff

    I am too, yet leadership independant of management is real as all of us who’ve played sports knows. We don’t have to know what Pujols or Berkman are like inside the clubhouse to know who’s the top dog on each team, they just are. It’s that same presence that I like in Votto. It’s been a long time since we’ve had someone like that on this club. Greg Vaughn comes to mind. One guy I don’t buy in that role is Kevin Youkilis. Seems like he’d be a major pain in the ass.

  14. GregD

    How do you know Pujols and Berkman are the top dogs in their clubhouse?

  15. Phill

    Wow Votto can crank up to WARP3 Speed 5.7!?!

  16. Kevin

    “Wow Votto can crank up to WARP3 Speed 5.7!?!”

    Hahahaha

    It’s a bummer that he doesn’t even stand a chance for the award, I guess, but the fact is that shouldn’t put a damper on the excitement about how good this guy has been this year and the fact that we have him on the roster for the future. What an awesome rookie year. I really do try to avoid armchair assessments about leadership. The interesting thing, though, is to think about what it will be like for Votto if he becomes a national star or franchise player in the next 5 years or so, with his very calm, humble demeanor and on-field personality.

  17. NickP

    It’s Soto in a landslide.

    Even if the numbers were comparable, getting the same production from a catcher skews the balance waaaaaay in his favor. Votto hasn’t even been that good for a 1B. Soto has been outstanding for a catcher.

  18. mike

    Votto hasn’t even been that good for a 1B. Soto has been outstanding for a catcher.

    while I agree with your general statement that Soto’s production at catcher has been amazing and in particular as a rookie (only 2 catchers in baseball have out produced him. Mauer and Mccann) I don’t think I agree with Votto not being “that good” as a 1B. He’s a rookie who has been dead on average at a huge offensive position.
    This is something I don’t think the average fan understands. Votto has been 13% more productive than the average baseball player which right now is DEAD ON average for a 1B. That’s very, very good for a rookie.

    As one idiot on ESPN was talking about Ryan Howard being in the MVP running (has this person even watched baseball this season?) I got up and checked something I was pretty sure was the case. Ryan Howard and Votto have produced almost the exact same! I’ve thrown in a few other players for comparison

    EQA
    .308 Dunn
    .282 Average 1B
    .281 Votto
    .276 Howard
    .265 Konerko

  19. Shane

    I think he meant Votto hasn’t even been that good DEFENSIVELY for a 1B

    Which I agree with. The guy can’t even throw a ball to the pitcher covering first and thats going to hurt him. PLus he hasn’;t learnd to come off the base to catch a ball thats going to go by him if he doesn’t. It’s better to let the runner be safe and catch the ball than it is to stay on the base, let the ball go by and the runner end up on second. He doesnt seem to know that yet. I love his offensive numbers but a defensive wiz he isn’t.

  20. mike

    I’ve seen so many people mention his defense. Maybe I just haven’t seen those games? His defense seems fine to me, even above average.

    I looked at RZR #s for 1B this season and Votto is 9th out of 24 qualified 1B

    His FRAR is 19 and his FRAA is 11 also both good and clearly above average.

    I also downloaded defensive spreadsheet from The Baseball Analysts and even if it was only through July 31st Votto came out as the 2nd best defensive 1B in baseball.

    and like I said, he’s looked fine to me.

    Oh in that spreadsheet.
    Phillips was the 5th best defensive 2B

    EE was the worst defensive 3B

    Patterson and Bruce we the same in CF and just around average

    Oh duh, why don’t I just put the #s in this post. Runs Saved Above Average for Reds who played at least 100+ innings at a position this season, through July 31st

    12.9 Votto Joey D 1B
    8.7 Phillips Brandon 2B
    1.7 Freel Ryan CF
    0.7 Hairston Jerry SS
    0.3 Bruce Jay A CF
    0.3 Patterson Corey CF
    -2.1 Janish Paul SS
    -2.9 Bruce Jay A RF
    -4.7 Dunn Adam LF
    -6.1 Keppinger Jeff S SS
    -15.1 Griffey Jr. Ken RF
    -15.9 Encarnacion Edwin 3B

    Ha, Bruce actually better than Patterson in CF

  21. jeff

    I will be curious to see how many votes Soto gets when the Cubbies tank at the end of September. They have now lost 6 in a row, their road record is about .500, they have 10 of their remaining 16 games on the road, and their pitchers are starting to break down. With Soriano, Edmonds, and Lee not hitting, they may be in trouble.